Peak Forest Railway: Ambergate – Chinley & Buxton Feedback Thread

lol They were [EDIT - Jan - Language] to be honest, I regularly had to walk back to the signal box on that incline I mentioned to inform the signalman that we were stuck on the line and needed assistance to get us up the hill. And it would invariably be raining for all it was worth. Then there was all the hassle of placing the detonators on the track to protect the train.

 

Were class 29s not capable for working MU? Well looking at their lifespan, BR scrapped them rather early.

 

They were totally unreliable when we had them. always breaking down. I wasn't sorry to see the back of them.

 

Wikipedia says the Class 29s had Red Circle MU fitment, and were basically the hopeless Class 21 NBL Type 2s refitted with Paxman Ventura engines. This apparently improved their reliability considerably, but being non-standard designs rendered them due for early retirement, simply due to logistics. Basically only the English Electric and Sulzer engined designs survived that round of culling, unless they were small shunters.

Just looking at the raw figures, a pair of 29s should have been at least equal in haulage capacity to a pair of 20s, having greater installed power, more starting tractive effort, and equal adhesion weight. But a single 29 would have been far inferior to a pair of 20s.

 

I cant recall if we only had one class29 or two but I never saw two coupled together in my time with them. This was right at the end of their life. They went straight from our shed at Grangemouth MPD to Eastfield and were parked up there for a few months awaiting the scrap man. back then Eastfield had drivers based there and Cadder had a working yard rather than a loop siding!
Sorry for going off topic!

 

I've kept quiet on this one as it wasn't one for me however am I the only one that's noticed most streams you see done by people on this route seem to be avoiding the steam trains (streams I've had pop up, naturally might just be my algorithm)

 

I don’t record or stream my gameplay but I’ve had much more fun driving diesels than the kettles. The 4F in particular is underwhelming as most of its offerings are just shunting, banking and light engine moves. Needed to set up a run on the WSR to give it something more to do.

 

Yes same here, I have done a few 8f services but after discovering scenario planner last night I have doubled my mileage on the route in a few hours just using the peak.

 

Does anyone have any good diesel scenarios that don’t require Spirit of Steam to work (I know that seems an odd question but the only one I found on CC needed it for some inexplicable reason)

 

I didn't include any sos stuff in mine, but in honesty I don't even know how to upload it!

 

Same on my YouTube, like you I don't know if it's the algorithms but the streams that get recommended to me on the route are more often than not featuring diesel's.

 

TrainSimTV did Steam, I think British Ace did etc. The problem with Steam and YouTube is the view out the front isn’t great, so you end up in the external cameras for most of the time. That isn’t really what people want and it’s hard enough keeping people’s attention as it is, so only the hardcore few will sit and watch a steam video through a tiny window.

It’s ironic that one of the best (if not the best) looking route in the game comes with motive power that means you can’t see any of it without a lot of chopping and changing of view!

matt#4801 It’s academic at the mo as DTL is down. I can see these scenarios but can’t get them!

 

Ah right, yes, I remember that now, thanks for reminding me mate.

 

Cant wait for dlcs & routes in a transition era:





Lucky day of stewartforgie

 

The issue I believe is that the vintage freight wagons and vac-brake Mk 1s all come from SoS

 

Since it is the weekend right now, we probably shouldn't expect an official line from DTG on this stuff just yet. I do hope that someone will take an official look at this thread tomorrow, and at least try to clarify what the position is and what solutions DTG might look into. For their benefit, I'll try to summarise the discussion in an even-handed way:

Among the most pressing concerns for players on PFR are the steam loco physics and the included Service Mode timetable. The lack of a manual explaining steam-era operations is also rather noticeable, and unfortunately the Training Centre is ill-equipped to cover many aspects of this. Players unfamiliar with British semaphore signalling or who routinely rely on the HUD are getting caught out by section signals at Danger, and perceive the subsequent "scenario failure" as unfair.

The latter point is where I joined the discussion. I have subsequently realised that the HUD problem is much more widespread, so it might even rise to being a Core issue; hence I now intend to make a separate thread about it. However, most TSW routes up to now have not had closely spaced stop signals, with no separate Distant indication, approached at line speed. That is why this specific problem has become critical only with PFR. During this discussion, some details were also discussed about the nuances of early-1960s British semaphore signalling, as distinct from certain other eras, which I'm willing to accept as true and incorporate into my separate analysis of the HUD problem.

Steam loco physics has been an ongoing problem since the release of Spirit of Steam, about a year ago. I understand that DTG are already working on improvements, and that it's taking much longer than they expected to get it right. So let's put those aside for the moment.

This leaves the state of the timetable. It's obvious from a glance that the route is modelled to match the early 1960s, with chapters of Journey Mode specifically referencing the infamous winter of 1963. It was further stated that the signalling is specifically modelled for that period, both in layout and procedure, and that timetables (both public and working) were obtained for that period.

However, even though diesel traction was getting significant use on the route by then, only steam traction is included with the route and represented in the timetable. This inherently resulted in compromises in authenticity. The most serious such compromises are the lack of a Millers Dale to Buxton shuttle service (operated by a DMU set in this period, and a steam push-pull set previously), and accelerated timings for some through services which steam haulage is unable to match in-game. Because the route does not continue beyond Ambergate or Chinley to actual passenger termini (Derby and Stockport/Manchester respectively), we must also simply accept fictional crew changes occurring at these junction stations.

There are also other timetable faults which are not so easily explained. The stopping patterns for many of the passenger services are inconsistent, leading to most stations on the southern half of the line having a sparse to nonexistent passenger service - not even counting the ones that already fell to the Beeching Axe. Some services are also incorrectly described in the listing, eg. for the two-part freight runs from Ambergate to Gowhole with a crew change at Rowsley, the Ambergate-Rowsley section is labelled as Rowsley-Gowhole. This type of mistake leads naturally to a perception of sloppy work, detracting from the sincere care that the rest of the team has evidently put in. In practice, it was probably due to the WTTs being delivered late and leaving little time to create the timetable, but the production schedule not being adjusted to account for this external delay.

Here are my suggestions on how to improve the timetable:

• Base service timings for steam-hauled passenger trains on a 1930s or 1950s timetable, where steam haulage was more usual. This will solve the problem of keeping to schedule using steam haulage.
• Repaint the Class 101 DMU into 1960s colours and use it for the Buxton shuttle service. Possibly also use it for some stopping passenger services that cannot reasonably be retimed for steam haulage while fitting the available freight WTT. Perhaps follow up with models of the correct varieties of DMU for the area, substituting into the same services.
• Alter the limestone loading tasks so that loading takes place with the wagons at a stand, rather than on the move as with MGR traffic. Limestone was not an MGR traffic type.
• Perform a general QA pass over the timetable, looking specifically for stopping pattern inconsistencies and incorrect labelling.
• Consider a follow-up "BR Green Diesel" pack release, which would allow an authentic 1960s timetable and driving experience. This should potentially include shunters, EE Type 1, Sulzer Type 2, and both EE and Sulzer Type 4s, all in era-appropriate colours and number series. Most of these locos are already available for newer eras (Classes 08, 20, 40, 45).

 

I myself have just spent a wonderful 2 hours playing the all mixed up scenario and it is fantastic. Its a real old freight era scenario and they've done a great job on it!

As said by a previous user on this thread it would be realistic and incredible to get pick up and drop off goods in the timetable. Using all of the little goods yards with people in them and shunting wagons about in them was great fun! We definitely need this is in a historic timetable what with it forming such a massive part of that eras freight works!

 

Amen to all that. Would be nice to think DTG behind the scenes already acting on some or all of this, but I fear the reality is PFR will end up like all the other routes. Post release haze already descending, the sales target has been achieved and all attention will be focused on the next DLC to release.

 

Little rant time, sorry in advance. But this has suddenly dawned on me like a bolt of lightening

Having completed rail journeys in peak forest I was slightly underwhelmed by the lack of variety in the services, so I went looking on scenario planner. Has anyone actually looked at all the new various consists that are in there now? Double header jubilee with 10 MK1s, double header 8F with 16 loaded mineral wagons, 8F with 18 mineral wagons and a fowler 4F and backup, Fowler 4F with its own freight consists.

I've just had a really enjoyable run from Liverpool to crewe with two 8Fs and 16 loaded mineral wagons enjoying all the different gradients listening to the engines work hard and managing the steam pressure. And yet not a single other train on the route because I'll be honest that's beyond me to work out how to get them running without conflicts.

The enjoyment from just the variety and difference running the fowler 4f on crewe. But yet here we are, 6 pages later and not a reply from Matt or JD. Why can't this game have the variety it deserves? Why couldn't several new freight routes have been put onto SOS? Why couldn't have peak forest have had passenger services using the 4F? Why couldn't we have some heavy freight use double 8Fs?

If I can sit there and make one, how come DTG can't? Or is it won't? Sorry if this comes across as inflammatory but I won't lie, it's wound me up.

 

Hey guys! I don’t think I can bring myself to read the 500+ comments on here considering I’d only consider buying the route if it’s steeply discounted or receives a diesel enhancement pack (regardless of quality by the way, it’s just that Liverpool-Crewe is already “enough” Steam action for me right now). I’m still interested in a few things though:

• What’s the general opinion on the route here a few weeks after release? What does the community like and what are the main criticisms?
• Have the developers been active in this thread and sharing details on the next patch, similar to what Skyhook have been doing for Midland Mainline?

Cheers!

 

• Pros: Good looking route (aside from the usual lighting complaints), nice attention to detail, 4F is a good engine
• Cons: Sparse timetable, endpoints make no sense

• Unlike SHG and MML, there has been effectively zero dev feedback on this route

 

If you like rural scenery then this is probably the best its ever been on TSW. It is supplied only with three steamers but others and I have been making scenarios including green 101's, 45s, various other diesels and you can throw in a DB BR 155 if you like. I am content just chugging along at 15 miles an hour admiring the scenery. It really does remind me of the feeling of bouncing around in the cab of a steamer even though the mechanics are very crude. DTG has promised to make the mechanics more rrealistic. However, DTG have promised no further development either in terms of route expansion nor rolling stock DLC's. Contrary to popular opinion I do feel that when leaning out of the cab you do a get a very good view of the scenery but not not just forwards. It is worth its money for whom this route suits. Definitley better than SOS.

 

The route is lovely and very atmospheric, nicely detailed too and definitely one of the best DTG TSW routes, the stock is nicely modelled but steam still needs some tweaks I feel.

Against it is the sparse timetable with the missing Buxton to Millers Dale services and other missing services, also starting from Ambergate for me was still a mistake, I accept DTG had their reasons but the fact that many services didn't stop there seems to be one of the weaknesses of the timetable.

There have been some appearances by DTG including some interesting discussions regarding the signalling and the use of timetables. There have been murmerings of some vague intentions to make additions but with the usual caveat of assume nothing is happening until you hear otherwise. They are certainly not as forthcoming as Jane from SHG but different companies have different policies of course.

Personally I will be very surprised if DLC isn't released and some if not most of the gaps in the timetable are filled.

 

Is it me but are there a few spurious 80 MPH upcoming speed limits shown in the HUD, particularly in the Up direction. There is one where you're doing 60, south of Peak Forest with an 80 shown approaching, but as soon as you hit the 80 the speed is back to 60. The other one I've spotted is around Rowsley where you're on 60, get 80 for about 400 yards then it drops to 50 or 45. There is literally no time or space to accelerate to 80 then down again. So think this might need a pass through by whoever is now the custodian for fixing errors on the route.

 

I got it on day one and I haven't played anything else since. I'm on ps4 so it was nice to have the full complement of wagons unlike the Crewe route. Last night I spent two and a half hours on the All Mixed Up scenario where we finally get to visit the little goods yards along the route dropping off and picking up wagons. Well done to whoever created it, shame it's raining though but that's very realistic in the Peak District. It was wonderful to experience the pick up goods I remember from my youth, turning up, shunting the yard and heading off to the next station. The choice of a route that no longer exists was an inspired one, Bath Green Park next?

 

dtg_jan,

As you started this thread & we’re now up to 11 pages of feedback, I think the consensus is this is actually a really good route. There are however some issues with it, so is it the intention that any of this going to be looked at / actioned / patched at all?

Thx

 

Sorry but with respect, that is a politician's answer. Are the development team going to be instructed to take action on addressing the information and issues raised on this thread?

 

While your point is well- taken, dtg. jan and the other forum moderators are not in a position to " instruct " anyone to do anything. They can transmit the issues raised in the forum to developers and support staff and report on any developments to us. Blame the message not the messenger.

 

Ultimately it needs a response from Matt or someone directly involved in the development and ongoing (hmm) support as to what if anything will be done about the issues raised. Unfortunately the last few weeks seem to have seen a decline in direct communication with the customer base. Probably lots of internal machinations going on with the Focus takeover, despite the assurances it is business as usual. That might even include instructions to adopt a more arms length approach when dealing with the forum.

 

Just to clarify, I was not suggesting that it was in DTG Jan's remit to instruct the dev team. I was more enquiring whether the instruction had been given by those in authority to do so. The dev team, (if they have eyes) can quite easily see for themselves the information contained in this thread without it having to be funnelled to them. All they have to do is read the forums. Hence my reference to a "politicians answer".

 

While its great that these issues are being communicated to the dev team, It doesn't really answer the question. Are the dev team under instruction to act on any of this information they are being given. I.E. are they being instructed to correct the issues or merely only being made aware of them?

 

I really don't think Jan can answer that. They're providing the info they can while the people who can give you your specific answer are on Holiday/busy with a hectic month.

I can assume, though, if DTG are compiling a list of issues from the forums to send directly to the dev team then they are, in fact, planning on/already are working on it

 

As promised, I did break out the signalling HUD topic to its own thread. Hopefully that has also been noted within DTG. German signalling is also relevant in several ways to the issue, as that still makes extensive use of discrete Distant signals and heads, neither of which the HUD handles well. I also had something to say about shunt signals and call-on aspects.

 

Hi Jan,
Just a quick thing, on consoles the head out camera when you click the right stick also collides on the 8F

 

Sorry to be the one but may I also add that class 45/0s (which are very similar to the 45/1s currently in game) were just as common as the Jubilees on expresses in 63 so even if it is a paid pack it would be very nice and appropriate to have them on expresses as personally it feels incredibly strange without them considering they can arguably be the most synonymous locos with this line in real life.

 

Some corrections/additions:

I thought that's how it's supposed to go when using manual firing (according to Matt, at least). The player uses manual firing, there's nothing on the HUD informing the player to shovel more coal, the player gets a "game over" when the firebox runs out of coal. Saying "several players" is a bit misleading, as it seems to imply it's a rare bug, instead of something that happens to everyone who uses manual firing while not shoveling frequently enough (again, according to Matt) due to the general state of steam simulation and interface.

Very descriptive, I'm sure the team will be able to act on that Is this referring to the missing half a hill?

Even when the times are fitting, it's infuriatingly spammy. What was wrong with the way it was handled in SoS? Nothing, that's what. Just copy and paste that. Write a proper manual, if you want to explain the correct procedures in detail. Reading manuals makes a casual player feel like an actual engineer way more than watching a "Close Large Ejector" message pop up every 30 seconds.

That's not a PFR issue, that's a steam issue in general. As in, it also happens on SoS. I'd say it's probably train-related.

Hope this has been helpful, if mildly snarky. Good to see at least some engagement, even if nothing's likely to come out of it anytime soon.

 

Peak Forest Railway - good for BR Green Diesels!

 

Only if there were livery maker for the 45s.

 

Can you put me in the right direction for this green livery on the 45 I can't find it. Many thanks

 

That's because it doesn't exist. What you see in the screen shots there are a Class 40 and 47

 

My mistake thanks bud. Are these liverys available as again I can't find them

 

In creators club, just do a livery search on 'BR Green', straight away I noticed D300 in one of the shots posted earlier come up

 

Thank you will look tonight after work

 

Not normally a diesel fan but that BR green on a sunny day looks something else. And that's from an avid steam fan

 

It's just another half baked cash grab.

 

Well after watching the preview stream the other day and seeing all those lovely BR Green shots via the poor scenario planner, I caved in and bought it and I must say, WOW, what a visually stunning route! When railways were railways with proper trains.

This has gone straight to my favourite route, even though BR Blue is my preferred period, I am partial to some BR Green in transition from Steam and to BR Blue.

My only real gripe is of course, as already mentioned by many others, the timetable and the obvious lack of BR Green. You cannot do much in the scenario planner due to lack of paths.

DTG, Please......please........please.......
please....
please....
please....
please....
please....
please....
please....
please....
please....

Create a BR Green diesel pack to purchase to add into the timetable mode.

 

Has anyone else noticed a long & continuous squeal on anything but straight track? Didn't notice at first but now I have noticed it, it has really started to be annoying. Assume it is supposed to be flange squeal but it's almost constant. Not yet worked out if it is related to the route or to the locos. I do also have two mods installed (4f safety valve volume & 8F/Jub headout view) which I also need to rule out as the cause. I don't recall anything similar from SOS.

 

Yet another FFF (forum food fight). Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!