Dovetail Games Has Successfully Lost Me As A Customer

Hello all,

after the very unpleasant development of Train Sim World 3 content, I would like to announce that Dovetail Games has lost me as a loyal customer.

The update policy is simply not acceptable, it never has been and probably never will be.
In the meantime Train Sim World 3 really went a pleasant way, for example with the Rush Hour tracks. In my opinion, Dresden-Riesa and London Commuter were the highlights until then. After that, the same quality (which was not perfect at the time either, but acceptable) could not be maintained. This already started with Dresden-Chemnitz, where the timetable was pretty thinned out and a class 185 was again shipped without LZB functionality, and was then replaced by Spirit of Steam, where two steam locomotives bounced around as if they would derail at any moment. Yes, the steam locomotive physics were revised, but that too after just under 12 months. That's far too long a time, you can't keep a paying customer - like me - loyal like that.
Between the release of Dresden - Chemnitz and the next appearing line in the area of Germany passed a longer time. For me this was a positive sign, as I had hoped that now finally the old routes would be updated to a current TSW status. This also took place, but was only visual in nature. Signals with wrong signal images were not fixed, which is very sad for a railroad simulation.

Then Train Sim World 3 was announced, a lot of hype was built up. 186 km of track were promised. Mountains were visible in the background in the stream. So possibly it was Munich - Innsbruck? Wrong, such a route - with interesting scenery and exciting timetable - would not be feasible at DTG for 29,99€. Instead, they opted for a route that couldn't be more boring, namely Kassel-Würzburg. Just four different ICE train runs make the route less than entertaining. Yes, there are some scheduled runs with the ICE, but these only differ from the time, the rest works exactly the same.
At night, the route is not much more interesting either. Thanks to dovetail games, the LZB still doesn't work remotely realistically. The partial block mode is completely missing. Signals can go dark if the next destination is a stop-indicating LZB block, but the signals light up again as soon as the full block is established until the next lit signal. Even if you are not in the LZB with the traction unit, darkened signals can whiz past you. The compact signals almost all show double instead of single red as entry signals in TSW. Some distant signals on the line are mirrored, i.e. not recognizable as distant signals according to German regulations.
Sorry, but this is not possible at all. How can you increase the prices for such poor quality. Yes, inflation was high at the time, no question, but that does not justify a deterioration in quality.

Subsequently, Bremen-Oldenburg and the Left Rhine route were published, at an interval that was worrying. The quality was shitty, similar to the Kassel-Würzburg high-speed line. The scenery looks like nothing, especially on the Linke Rheinstrecke many optics are missing at the signals.
The New York-Trenton route added to my opinion. I didn't buy it because it was already visible in various videos - sponsored by DTG - how poorly and meagerly the route is designed. Not even a nearly complete timetable was included. But many other smart people have already given their opinion.

In summary, TSW has not developed further from a railway perspective since the Rush Hour package. New graphics are all well and good, but it would make more sense to concentrate on the foundation first, namely the railway.

Dovetail Games, it has been a nice time with your products in parts, but for the most part a very exhausting one. You are welcome to make an effort with quality products, maybe I will change my mind then. But if things keep going the way they are, you'll be rid of me for good, and my wallet will be happy, considering how overpriced the DLCs are all together and how little fun you get for the money.

I'm over and out with this, take care, and to the DTG fanboys: you don't have to comment on everything, if you don't like my opinion, there's also the option to just keep scrolling


Many greetings from Germany.

 

Many people on this forum and I agreed on the fact, that DTG has lowered the quality on some DLCs but why creating a thread just to tell us you’re not a customer anymore ? Just stop buying DTG’s products and move on.

 

Hallo und viele Grüße zurück aus Deutschland.

Dont get me wrong, but i don't understand why People almost daily comes here to tell how bad the TSW Products are. Just a Tip: Dont buy any DLC anymore, Deinstall TSW from your Machine and be Happy with other Games.
I think DTG "Juckt es nicht die Bohne" when a "Customer" starting a Thread to tell that he/she is lost as a Customer. I saw it in the past, for Example MML, how bad it was in the Preview-Videos, but People bought it and later come here to tell how sh#&tty it was. I dont understand some People.
Im not a Fanboy and my last bought DLC was the Loco Addon Bundle 1 somewhere last Year (dont accept the higher Prices since BCC), but in Comparison with TS Classic, in TSW you have much more playing Experience (auch mit älteren DLC's).

 

Ok, cool.

 

I'm gonna comment because you made a long winded, and pointless post. Bye bye.

 

I don’t think they could ever lose me as a customer, that doesn’t mean I purchase every dlc, just that I give unlimited chances (both DTG and parties) and I would skip whatever I don’t feel is up to the level I would want out of it, or just not that fussed anyways. (I do have the majority of routes currently, but I’m more out now to look for the highest experiences, rather than further build up a collection, what would take time out of my current to do list of route/service stuff.)

their are few points I would make regarding the OP post

1. You mentioned the 185 without LZB with Chemnitz Route, whilst yea it would be better to have that, Chemnitz would not have been a practical focus as it doesn’t do anything other than be not isolated on that route.

2. Regarding Munich Innsbruck, I think every one or a lot of people, has a route what’s possibly coming they would want to see, it’s not fair though to call it a bad case when it doesn’t.

3. yes I agree BML is a high contender of routes available and compared to others it makes them look quite weak. Whilst I don’t have hatred for other routes because of that, I think their are quite a lot of questions to be asked why we don’t get to see that gameplay more often with other routes even despite their style differences. I do also think it’s been prompt up by lack of signature routes (big names) despite TSW now several years old.

4. it does appear since Bremen (December onwards) theirs been some very iffy releases, these of course need fixing and not repeated, I do question the practices what’s caused this, but what more can be said by those who noticed this what hasn’t.

 

He wrote why. He said he could change his mind if DTG improves the quality of the releases.
TBH, he gave useful feedback in general (I would have worded the "shitty quality" part differently).
Why not just let him give his feedback without making a drama of it?

 

Yes I know and there’s multiple threads addressing these routes issues/feedback but the “You lost me DTG and I’ll never spend a penny again/I’ll buy your routes if you’ll improve the quality” part is kinda unnecessary and pointless that’s not gonna change anything and no one here cares about someone not being a loyal customer. I personally disapprove the actual state of DTG consisting of releasing many DLCs in a shorter time period than before, but this kind of thread won’t change anything about their policies.

 

You are right, it will probably not change anything but not giving the feedback for sure will not change anything at all.

 

Idk if id ever stop buying but with the price increase and the lack of quality in the last few routes i haven't really purchased as much as i did in tsw2. I used to just buy dlc when it came out at retail now i just wait for a sale and even then im not sure about buying.

 

What is a surprise to me is DTG was early on cranking more german dlc then anything else.So you would think it's german fan base would be thrilled to be getting more more offen.But more dlc don't mean much if it's just broken dlc as well.

 

Bye now

 

I bought PFR at release and MML as I wanted to try the 158 but quite simply I will no longer buy every single DLC at release unless it’s something I desperately want. Manchester to Hadfield is a miss, just bought Woodhead Blue for TSC in the sale and that is what the new TSW route should have been, a glorious cross Pennine experience with the Class 76 electric locos and the Class 506 EMU’s on the stoppers.

Someone commented in another thread that 2023 has seen DTG churn out a raft of routes for TSW, but most have issues to some degree and there seems no great desire to fix what’s wrong on these new DLC’s let alone some of the legacy stuff. To the casual observer it looks like they were desperate to get cash through the tills possibly with the Focus buyout in mind.

This last sale (more cash needed through the door!?) I haven’t touched anything for TSW, not even tempted by BCC or the Rhine route. Spent a fair bit on TSC content and got so much to do on there, TSW in severe danger of getting mothballed for a few weeks!

 

As long as the silent majority keep buying DLC the vocal minority can do whatever they want.

 

Well I love it. It's my go to at weekends after a long weeks work. It's my most played out of everything I've got.

 

It's always nice to read a success story.

 

I had a period of not using TSW and uninstalled it, I didn't bother announcing it on here though. I am now using it more than ever.

It never ceases to amuse me when I read of people never buying another DLC, or uninstalling the sim and that DTG are the most awful company in time immemorial....then bingo a few months later they have the latest DLC, or are clearly playing it again (if they ever stopped) so presumably the found it wasn't as bad as they kept telling us!

 

Why try to stop someone sharing an opinion, by sharing your opinion that you don't like their opinion ?

 

Because it's the equivalent of someone leaving Twitter, but before doing so writing a couple of paragraphs saying they're leaving Twitter.

Nobody (really) needs to know, and it makes no difference to the company (in this case DTG), and their opinion is, as MYG92 says, not an uncommon one. I've not bought a DLC since December, and I have no plans to (although I kinda want to get MML if the update lives up to expectations, and Glossop if it's any good) for the foreseeable future, but I didn't make a thread about it. I still play the game as the OP might, and that's the end of it.

 

The Train Now Departing (Permanently) On Platform 1 Is SpDrS42 To Another Train Dev Company.

 

But a person saying they won't buy a tsw dlc or stop playing is no different than posts with people saying that they plan on buying a dlc or they enjor the game or that they will buy the game. Is a person saying that they will buy something uncessary?

Just as a person can post that they will buy a dlc, a person can post that they will not or say they are leaving. Why is it that when a person writes that they will leave and giving feedback as to why is viewed as pointless and a waste of time but a person can make a thread saying that they will buy all the dlc's, the dlc's are good and a person saying they will buy something not viewed as uncessary or not criticized?

 

Ok, not sure what I'm gonna do with my life now though.

 

The purpose of forums is leaving feedback whether that is good or bad isn't relevant, how else are bugs going to be addressed for example. If some think his feedback is not warranted that isn't for you to decide that is for DTG. If I produced a game I would be more concerned with people who stop buying the game and give a reason for it than inane comments like 'move on'.

He is entitled to his feedback and without the grief, if you don't like it then take your own advice and move on to another thread.

 

Did I said he can’t give any feedback? No, I just pointed that there’s multiple feedback threads already and there’s no need to tell us he won’t buy any DLC or that DTG lost a loyal customer

 

The OP does have a point in terms of quality and the recent increase in price even if it's due to inflation. The title and some of OP's statements however says otherwise which is why I think this thread was useless.

Expecting bml level type of gameplay/timetable in every single route release is just unrealistic. Bml was busy because the real timetable does have thousands of services with the 377 and 387. Unless other routes have thousands of services with just 1 or 2 rolling stock, it's not possible to create a bml again. Also a reminder that Joe had to work countless hours building all 4000+ services and watching the simulation during his breaks to see if there are any issues. Other routes in new regions for example don't have enough or appropriate rolling stock. There is only soo much they can do with just 1 or 2 rolling stock if dtg want a realistic timetable.

The OP also complained about not getting a route he wants for the 186km route. The developers can make whatever the route they want. Players wanted an ice1 and a long high speed route which is what kwg satisfied. Not everyone will like it since it is not their local route and is too boring. Even I think some of the dlcs are boring even if I have purchased them. Do I complain and make a big deal it is boring? No. Also important to mention a busy commuter mainline just as long with many different service types would have been much more complicated to make.

Calling bro and lr shitty is also a problem. Sure, they had bugs at release, but they eventually got patched out or will get a patch. Bro got several patches within several weeks. Lr is still waiting for one. But calling routes shitty is not good.

 

And my point is, why can't he leave negative feedback, if there is multiple threads then doesn't that tell you something?
DTG often like saying 'if you don't like it don't buy it' so taking that logic 'if you don't like it DON'T READ it or comment'.

 

Agree with OPs criticism almost fully, I stopped buying dlcs after Brighton, happy to drive some old dlc, waiting for miracle inside DTG.

 

Depends on how the OP words it. He makes some decent points, but how he says it means otherwise.

If you read through the whole thing, he complains about kwg and how it's 186km of nothingness and how another route didn't get created. I'm sure everyone wants their local route in tsw, but I don't see them complaining in a thread. He also expects bml and dra level gameplay in every route in tsw. That is either not realistic or possible either due to not having appropriate rolling stock, not having enough or the timetable really is quiet. The OP also says recent releases were shitty. Sure, they had bugs, but so does others, so does it make them all shitty? I've also heard of other buggy releases in tsw2 and tsw2020 content.

 

I will make the point that we have this exact thread repeating every few months, the only difference being a different OP. Mind you, this thread is the only one with a detailed explanation why, and the only one who has been reasonable with their complaints for a good while.

Nonetheless, you're all really wasting your time with this debate.

 

People are passionate about the game, they want to like it. they want to be able to like it, and to recommend it to their friends. That's the biggest thing that comes through in all these sorts of posts. You don't make a long post detailing all these issues for something you can just walk away from and forget about.

 

I didn’t see the part in the OP what said a route was “shitty”, I did read apart about “shitty quality” most likely in reference to the issue of release quality lately…

when some feel strongly about a certain route, “shitty” isn’t the strongest of an angry strop when they feel wronged by it. Sometimes it’s even used in situations where people get on with it but rather they wouldn’t.

“a tad off” maybe to understatement
“Abysmal” maybe to overstatement

Their use of that word ain’t unreasonable in that context.



As for how relevant to feedback, by itself it’s nothing, one time use in a large summary (as above) on their thoughts then it becomes a part of their personal thoughts with their feedback.

 

I'm just picturing the away end singing "you're a tad off...and you know you are" each time Bamford misses a sitter

But anyhows, for me the op blew his big opportunity when he said "maybe I'll change my mind......" towards the end because that statement in itself suggests DTG haven't "succesfully lost him as a customer'" at all, they've simply made him feel the need to put together a round-the-houses DTG history tour, followed by the obligatory 'fix your game before I (potentially) open up my wallet again' thing for a few ego boosting "I told you so" likes.

I love a good old anti-DTG rant but meh, there's better ones than this.

"isn't this the airport?".
"yeah, so what if it is!".
"I've already seen the airport".

Swiftly moving on....

 

I'm not dressing anything up and am not putting words in other people's mouths like what you are doing. He said the quality was 'shitty' not the route which is fair enough no?

 

I don't think he 'blew' anything. If anything he is being fair in saying that if they up the quality he'll come back. That is level headed no? Rather than not buying if a load of improvements are made.

 

When a company is selling a product, then the customer has the right to praise the product and critize it as they see fit.

 

You'd say that to someone on a first date? I'd like to be a fly on that wall.

 

He dared to write his negative opinion in the den of the fanboys. The same old die hards will jump at any such post to white knight for DTG. Happens every time... hook, line and sinker.

 

Dovetail Games ask all the time for everybody 2 cents 2 euro 2 marks 2 pence 2 denars 2 credits 2 gold bars of pressed latium 2 shilling 2 miles 2 kilometers 2 feet 2 inches 2 whatever.The OP just stated his opinion.This is a comment section and it isn't always warm and fuzzy.

 

The silent majority... those that bought it, tell DTG a different story than the OP.

I think its so hard to make quality routes and DTG have done it.

Nothing else comes close. OK I'm off to France to do 320kph on the LGV... and then Kassel....

 

Oh away to ****. The only people who claim there are any such thing are people who bash the game to the extent of ridiculousness, and can't handle the fact that some people like the game, and in turn try to ridicule those people.

 

Now if only I knew how to tag a mod. I think this thread has gone far enough and should be locked.

Now I know how to: dtg_jan

 

@[their name] - or the report button - alerts staff.

 

trainsimplayer yeah I used the report button.

last time I train @ it didn't do anything. Will it work this time? EDIT: It does! thank you

 

Yes it was feedback, not the type you like obviously but it was feedback as he gave his reasons. You seem to be saying that if you bought something that you wasn't happy with you would not say anything? To me that is daft.

How is anything going to improve? Again he gave reasons other than just 'shitty'.

 

Why are people on this forum so toxic to each other?

 

If you cannot handle someone giving their opinion then why read it?

Constructive criticism IS feedback. A decent software company always welcomes feedback good and bad. No software will advance with simps saying how good the game is. Flaws need to be pointed out if you do not like it then that seems like a 'YOU' problem.

As for the insults, drop it and keep it civil for the benefit of others. It is strange that some of the most toxic people on this forum are the fanboys.

It might help to stop posting inane messages and go look at something else then the thread will die, no need to lock anything.

 

This is about to be a long one, please bear with me…

DTG is not losing me as a customer at all. In fact, I’m still active on the forums and play the game a lot. However, the lackluster DLC releases since TSW3 came out last September (and frankly also many of the late TSW2 DLCs after Dresden-Chemnitz in early 2022) have ended up motivating me to explore more of the older DLCs and appreciate the polish and quality that is simply not there in the newer releases. For example, I play lots of West Somerset, Northern Transpennine, Tees Valley and Ruhr Sieg Nord now - all of those are routes I would have never expected to be giving a proper try if you’d have asked me a year or so ago.

It’s truly a shame because almost every route that has come out for TSW3 has been potentially interesting to me. But unfortunately, the quality (except for Niddertalbahn, which I bought on release day) and post-launch support has just not been there.
For example, I saw Linke Rheinstrecke on sale on the PlayStation Store a few weeks ago. Due to the higher price tags nowadays, the routes are still pretty expensive even on discount, but I nevertheless thought about it quite a bit. I ended up deciding I would buy the route once the first post-launch patch had arrived. It’s now about a month later and that patch is still nowhere to be seen… I think that one example describes my frustrations perfectly. We’ve got seemingly finished updates all over the place that are not getting released for some reason. Many routes that came out months ago are still on their “1.0” versions, so to speak. This all reminds me of the TSW2 days where some preservation crew updates had to wait an entire year to be released.

So many of the more recent DLCs are seemingly being neglected, but that also doesn’t mean older content is being looked after.
Peninsula Corridor’s and Oakville’s new timetables have been held back by a UI issue since mid-2022, but that hasn’t even been looked at yet because everyone responsible for it is apparently busy with the Add-Ons manager… but we haven’t gotten any news or updates for that since it came out for PS4 months ago. See? It’s all a very complicated and incomprehensible mess.

We’re deep in the “we’re reducing new DLC releases and focusing on releasing fixes” period right now, but no improvements are seemingly being made. The only concrete communication regarding upcoming patches is from Skyhook, a third-party developer.

I’m not one of those doomsday guys that’s predicting TSW to fail. In fact, I’m having tons of fun playing the game. I just think that unoptimized processes (lack of internal communication/prioritization) and faulty decisions in the background (focusing on new content over developing/releasing fixes) continue to prevent the franchise from reaching its true potential.

 

I have been here since the very beginning and can state the forums were not always in such a state. Many of us come over from the Steam Forums for what is now TSC since they had deteriorated to a very toxic state. I was hoping these would not follow in the same path. There are some very helpful people in these forums, but unfortunately the signal to noise ratio has become such they are hard to find and are usual drowned out by threads such as this.

My two cents to stay on topic -- The OP is entitled to his opinion... I do not have to agree with it nor do I need to refute it. I have my own opinion which suits me fine and is probably of little interest to others. I do hope the OP finds something he finds satisfying for his entertainment.

 

Wow, you do not recognise your own insults and the OP wasn't insulting anyone he just thought the quality was a bit shitty. In 2023 you can't handle the word 'shitty'? It is hardly a nasty insult and again did not insult anyone directly unlike yourself. If you find the game perfect then good for you but what are you doing here? Go play the game.

As a suggestion READ the second paragraph of the message above, it will help you.