Tees Valley Is Good

Had a great run last night with the Class 31 hauling a dead DMU from Saltburn to Darlington. This route should definitely have been a springboard for a larger NE network. Not just Bishop Auckland and Boulby but down to Whitby and maybe up the Durham Coast towards Sunderland and Newcastle. DTG should stop making excuses that the software won’t allow route extensions and sort it out. We want to hear solutions not problems!

 

The truth is the accountant will only want the latest wow emuman323turbo route with one train and working cappuccino machines....

 

Ah yes, shame on me for forgetting that!

In all seriousness though, surely there is more money to be made extending and enhancing something like TVL or GWE (or any of the German or US routes) than yet another insignificant 15 mile stop/start commuter route. One of the reasons for Run 8’s success is the expanding network in SoCal. Not expecting anything on that scale for TSW, but it would be nice to start off in Newcastle, drive down the Durham Coast, quick change of trains in Middlesbrough then on to Whitby. Virtual fish and chips, pint or three of IPA then head back again. That to me is the immersive experience Train Sim “World” should be aiming to be.

 

We live in a disposable world though so the next big thing is the only thing. A lot of excitement was seen for Glasgow to Edinburgh and despite a lot of us saying it would be dull as it was produced that was shot down. TVL I think was produced in good faith with addon potential but ultimately something stopped them going any further. The lack of Boulby traffic is short of crazy due to there being so much white space on the graph (planning speak). If Spirit of Steam is left behind which it looks that way then TVL has no chance no matter how much we suggest it.

 

Really enjoy playing the routes speaking of the route it self it should have been Bishop Auckland to Saltburn if given SEH Treatment with 1989 era stock Pacers classes 141-144 freight locomotives 56 & 58. Although the class 141 did run in the United States with SEPTA around 1985

 

IIRC, Matt said in some stream or other that BR Blue era routes simply didn't sell.

 

But the last BR blue route DTG released was years ago when the playerbase was much smaller. Once the JT route is out we will have an up to date statistic about how well BR blue routes sell.

 

Tees Valley is an awesome and yet under used route. In bothe Timetable mode and Scenario planner. The amount of sidings that are just left by the wat that could be used and not is just criminal!!! It would be great if there was a class 56 as DLC for the route, more wagon types. I would love to see DLC released for past routes still. Not just by Dovetail but get the 3rd party people involved as well.

Hentis

 

Yep as the kiddies prefer all the modern day jizz jazz. Me, i'll happily notch 8 or 10 anything up that line all day

Hentis

 

Frankly I find Matt’s comment a little disingenuous. If classic diesel routes or packs don’t sell then how on earth did something like Peak Forest with steam get authorised. (Won’t call out SoS as we know that was an indulgence for the Bossman). Just fired up TVL this time pressing on with my Class 20 journey and it’s far more satisfying than yet another electric commuter run.

Oh well, I’m guessing if DTG use Dovetail Live as a means of assessing what people are playing then we had better start ramping up the time spent in these classic routes.

And my final thought to DTG is the famous line from Field Of Dreams… “If you build it, they will come.”

 

I don't want to expect too much from JT but I'm really hoping they're able to show what a well made BR diesel era route is capable of and prove to dtg they do sell.

 

I have my doubts he would have phrased it as “don’t sell” more probably said something on the lines of “sells less”

though they have only really been TVL and NTP, and they were both from a long time ago and under different circumstances on many fronts.

and in saying that both routes have high praise to this day.

it wouldn’t be fair to judge Diesel legends under the same pretext for many obvious reasons.

I definitely think, using that basis would be a bad decision to go off. Having a BR era route more on the level of BML type size and quite frankly getting in the BR stock on steam routes where appropriate, wouldn’t at all be badly taken.

 

Of course we have seen this neglect on the American routes too. After finishing on TVL, fired up Clinchfield… Dark and Stormy night trying to coax a F7 lash up and manifest up a 1.5% gradient. Nothing fancy here, just raw man and machine against the task in hand.

Clinchfield also deserved some love, be it an extension to match the TSC version or some additional motive power and stock.

 

Matt also said that sales of Diesel Legends were pretty good. Considering it was a massive compromise, with BR blue diesels running on a modern route, that appears to demonstrate that people are extremely keen to buy BR blue.

While I don’t know the sales figures of course, the MML route seems to have attracted a lot of attention having, rather cunningly, combined older stock with a relatively modern route and liveries. It seems to be viewed as a ‘modern route’ by those who like modern routes, while still attracting the rest of us by avoiding modern plastic EMUs.

The Blackpool route sounds as if it’s going to be a bit of a compromise too. It’s talked of as a ‘BR blue’ route, and is attracting a lot of interest from that part of the community, but it sounds very much as if its new train is going to be a Pacer - hardly ‘BR blue’ to my mind, and more directed at fans of modern trains. If they can run the Pacer alongside 31s, 37s, 45s, 47s, 101s etc they may successfully attract both parts of the community and maximise their sales.

As I’ve said for a long time, I think transition era routes have a lot going for them, providing they’re made in a way to maximise the types of traction you can run on them.

 

Again let's hope WCL isn't used as benchmark as its sub par. Diesels have a huge following from enthusiasts of all ages. Not tapping into that market seems unusual. A 90s or 80s North Wales Coast route would be iconic but set now its one train and one dimension most likely.

 

Id settle for some BR Blue slam door 3rd rail electrics right now.

 

Gonna join the choir here: TVL is one of my all-time favourites (even though there’s a lot of wasted potential; an extension to Bishop Auckland would be incredible). Spent a weekend up at Darlington last year and the atmosphere was incredible - the birthplace of the modern railway they called it. Maybe that makes me biased but it’s great to have Darlington in-game with classic traction to boot.

Also, didn’t keep up with the Just Trains stuff so I wasn’t aware their route will be BR blue. That would certainly make me a lot more interested.

 

BR Blue was the best time for locos imo.
Better than these electrostar/bombardier/Hitachi rubbish I have near me

 

That electrostar/bombardier/Hitachi rubbish may not be very exciting, but they're way better locos than first-gen UK diesels ever were.

 

Actually DTG missed a trick by not including the section of line up to Stockton.
Though would probably have drawn the line at running Locomotion along it. Then again... Maybe we do need a genuine old route like Stockton and Darlington, Liverpool to Manchester with Rocket or some GWR Broad gauge, Would be a bit of fun.

 

Bescot has recently done a foliage update for TVL. It is very nice indeed. Billiard table grass replaced by lush Peak Forest foliage.

Does NTP and a couple of other routes as well.

https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/m...19-patches/i3636-uk-route-vegetation-grass-ep

 

For the GWR Broad Gauge it's 2.1m track gauge and you can put standard gauge 1.435m inside it making a dual gauge railway. The Didcot Railway Museum has the Set up of Brunel Gauge with standard gauge inner track

 

That’s an impressive mod. Sadly I don’t have Peak Forest as the steam physics are so poor. If it appears on a decent sale though I’ll buy it just for the vegetation!

 

What year is this route set in?
The reason I ask is, because as a child, I used to travel the line regularly (gives my age away a bit!). And the sounds really do take me back.
Just wondering if it was when I was there. I remember the 101's like it was yesterday. I just wish to see some Deltics going down the ECML.

 

I believe it's 1989 so a few years after the Deltics.

 

Better needs to be defined. Modern stuff needs to be more reliable but that's evolution. A lot of earlier diesel classes were born out of pilot scheme fails and wins. When it comes to simulation not all of us want to drive locos that sound like washing machines on slow spin or multiple units with one handle that don't even have an ammeter. Better for today's railway does not always mean Better for spending half an hour or an hour of an evening driving on the PC.

Back on Topic TVL badly needs a 56, an extension to Boulby and Bishop Auckland adding in. .....

 

I think as said above it is 1989. The 101's were running alongside the class 143's, although by 1989 first generation DMU's at Heaton were on borrowed time apart form the 108 power trailer sets used for the Cumbrian Coast line. Some of them displaced by Sprinters and ironically some of the displaced by 142's from the south west which were displaced themselves by first generation DMU's!

 

I would have to add that I’ve always wanted to see a pacer dlc come for TVL, theirs been 2 freight DLC’s for it and the one thing that has always detracted from the route for me was the 101 being the only option for passenger (I know the 31 does but that also just pulls the 101)

I mean don’t get me wrong I like the 101, but it’s hard to keep repeating the route for a stopping service for that train for me, I’ve never been a fan of its brake systems and it seems to get a bit much even and especially after 1 line length run for me.

I heard a rumour? That one was in the works before and got cancelled, but I ain’t sure how accurate that is.

 

An extension to Bishop Auckland with a Provincial liveried 143 would be great. I remember Matt saying back when the route was released that he would like to see a Pacer in the sim.

Maybe the one from the new JT route might layer in.

 

We could do with more BR blue in game. We could also do with the NTPstock being unlocked on TVL as it's all been here at one point or another!

 

47s were very common around Thornaby.

 

that layer would be a great use of an opportunity if true.

 

You mean the big marshalling yard on the route where it has a TMD attached to it which is where you start on the Class 08 Devious Diesel Paxton Iron Arry and Bert

 

You must really hate your NPC passengers

 

How come?

 

The Class 31 was originally meant for NTP but was transferred from it due to memory issues (I believe) with the route, presumably when the Heavy Freight pack is also installed. That's what was said around the time, although another possible theory based on past actions in TS is that it was changed to TVL so it had a loco DLC available. It's what happened with the Class 321 in TS; it was originally going to be a pack for the GEML route but was changed to the FCC livery that was unfortunately released (I doubt the original GE version would have been any less bad) - hence why in the files it's Class321Pack02. I have no proof of the latter theory for the 31 though, and I'm not convinced by it myself, it's just a possibility. It is sad though, NTP was one of my favourite routes and the 31 and 20 were both some of the best trains DTG made for TSW (bar the Cement Circle situation).

Spoiler: Unrelated but interesting

While DTG have never released a NXEA or GA branded train in TS due to licensing, it is worth noting that the appalling Class 91 pack was originally going to be in East Coast livery based on a little remnant of it in the textures. Years later the East Coast livery was added, but whether it was the original livery or made from scratch I do not know. DTG have included new liveries in old loco DLCs for TS before, but usually to tie in with other releases. The Class 159 had a South West Trains livery added to tie in with the South Western Main Line route and the Class 150 had a Silverlink livery added to go with the AP 313 on Steam.

 

I’ve heard the 101’s had some quite bad asbestos issues in their later life, so I may just end up saving them

From my experience with pacers, i honestly didn’t find them that much different from 800’s, both have uncomfortable painful seats and who don’t like a bit of a bumpy ride

the pacers weren’t always well received by everyone

 

Pacers are fantastic! I’ve spent many an hour on them.

I’d love to see a provincial (or T&W) Class 143 on the TVL. If but if we got Chocolate and Cream Class 142s we could potentially layer onto WCL

They would have to have the correct ride physics and flange squeal though.

 

I think I have a liking more to the 142 over the 143 personally, but I’ve always thought the 141 also has a charm to it. Maybes one day all 3 or 2 in a nearer future on some kind of routes.

 

Pacers were fine on level, straight welded track though even then at speed you could get a bit of a shimmy. But sharply curved and graded routes with sections of jointed track the ride was dire and the flange squeal on even moderately sharp curves (like coming off the High Level Bridge at Gateshead heading towards Sunderland) was deafening, like fingernails down a blackboard.

 

That is why they were banished from Devon and Cornwall in the 80's, plus the excessive flange wear if I recall.

 

I think your passengers would be safe lol, I think most of them had asbestos removed on refurbishment, this is why they lasted for so long.

 

Think I had one from Exeter to Barnstaple and back during the first period of operation in the WC. Scenic journey but not the best train for the route.

 

I have only been on one once, on the valley line to Ystrad Mynach, it was quite noisy on the bends coming out of Cardiff but didn't seem to bad once on the straight. Although it was quite bouncy in places especially over points.

I wonder when they had them back in the West Country if they were only allowed on certain lines, I know they went down to Exmouth I imagine they weren't allowed on the Cornish branches.

 

I guess one advantage they did have over 150's and especially 153's/155's was the relatively large and unobstructed windows to take in the scenery.

 

Nothing worse than a worn flange

 

This is a fantastic picture- had no idea SEPTA ever ran any DMUs, let alone a Pacer lol!

According to Wikipedia SEPTA stopped running this line north of Fox Chase in November 1983, so the picture must be from before that.

 

Well, a single Pacer was tested by SEPTA, which was considering re-opening service on the unelectrified Fox Chase-Newtown branch. The test was considered a failure, and the branch was not re-opened.

 

Also they have already a high base of usable locomotives, i can live with going in with no new locomotive but use instead all the existing. 08, 20, 31, 37, 40, 45 & 47
In one dlc.

The selling point definetly needs to have a reconsideration. Playe rbase is bigger and maybe they just need to get more creative and use todays features of making good routes.

Interesting timetable, a.i traffic (both inexistent in tvl and ntp), no new loco but new wagons instead + reskins. Using the 7 existing locos we have and put them in the dlc pack.

Cant immagine its the sales only, DTG just have to do an effort to make the route interesting. With all diesels we have half of the leg is already done.

 

We have nearly everything there to do a period ECML. Just need to add a Deltic, some Mark Two ajrcons and oh yes…a restaurant car!