Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

thank you so much!

 

Brilliant, thanks Jane, glad I could play a very small part in a very large project. Please could you pass my thanks and congratulations onto the rest of your team.

 

Another 2 i have found. Not sure if yous know or not.

The first over bridge leaving derby clips the roof of the trains.

Second is platform 1 at nottingham, the platform edge goes inside the train on the curvy bit beside the signal.

 

once it passes QA I sure will ) seriously, I will do so first thing. Really appreciate your help with this. it won't be forgotten.

Next DLC release is on me as a thank you (and for some others here too )

 

Thank you! I'm not at work, but I think the art team fixed these. Will check though.

 

Cool beans.

 

That’s incredibly stunning, the new grass fully transforms all these routes!

 

Jane you are not causing issues. Please do not feel that way. The vast majority of the TSW community have the utmost respect for you. You are a valued member of this community. Don't let the haters get to you. SHG are bloody lucky to have you on board. You've been extremely kind, helpful and comunicative. We have your back on this

 

Hey.. just picked up this route and wondering what is with the aws penalty brake application on both the 158 and HST? It has happened a few times now and typically under green signal indication. Perhaps someone could give me a little insight as to what’s going on
Thx

 

There's a general update to the signalling that was planned for the first patch, but didn't fully go through in time for it. The hotfix coming this week should improve that.

Until then, I recommend running in "TPWS Temporary Isolation" mode. The switch for that is on the secondman's side of the 158's cab.

 

I've read earlier in this thread you have to reduce your speed to x mph which prevented players from getting penalty braked in some locations. At the same time shg are looking at fixing it if I remember correctly

 

Thank you!

 

Thanks!

 

Morning jane-skyhook did the team who work with sounds look into the HST when passing (further up)making the sound echo for longer? It's really hard to explain, the rattling of the tracks prior to passing aswell.

Also, with the HST, has the 1-2 second delay when applying power been fixed?

And finally, the HST GSMR, can this be implemented as I cannot see why it was only featured on the 158 and it should pretty much work identically on both.

If you can nail these fixes, you literally will have a top tier DLC and the after sales support will be one to remember for many years.

Thanks in advance.

 

I may have misunderstood the point, but with the HST the delay when applying power feels about right to me. The 158 it feels as if it responds too quickly.

 

Not driven them IRL but there are subtle differences and the HST does move off rapidly from the point of applying power, try notch 3 for example. Then if you refer to AP's enhancement pack, you can feel a difference whereby there is a 1-2 second delay from applying power to the engine revving up and also, when the power is applied, there would be a further 1-2 second delay before the traction motors physically propel the train forward.

I agree with the 158, it should not move immediately, again it needs a couple of seconds to generate the power to propel forward.

Hope that explains it.

 

Alex is right about the delay but it isn’t right as it is at the moment, plus the amps should rise much slower than they currently do.
To be clear it isn’t the delay between revving up and pulling away, but throttle movement to amps rising should be about a second delay. I have been waiting for the team to finish the first patch to re-bug it again. Definitely something that needs to be addressed in my opinion.

 

Morning Alex,

These issues don't feature in the hotfix (as its primarily a rapid iteration), but they are on the list to be looked at for the next proper patch.

Jane

 

You are quite right Alex. The 158 is really accurate based on feedback from numerous experts, engineers and drivers. I agree with you though, the HST still needs some tweaking. Totally concur and we are looking at this.

 

yes this is accurate in terms of required speed reductions for TPWS. Hopefully someone can chirp in here with TPWS details (as I am not at my desk). This is intentional however that this is supposed to happen and really adds to the realism.

There are a couple of places, however, where there is false emergency braking, which we have addressed and was one of the file issues in the original patch. Those fixes are now in the hotfix.

 

Just realized the HST's DRA Isolation Switch is wired backwards. I turned all the safety systems on and pulled out of Derby only to realize the DRA was still illuminated. After fiddling a bit I tried setting the switch to isolate and, voila, the DRA cut power to the locomotive as intended.
That, and I'm not sure the DSD works, either. From what I've seen on other trains the DSD should immediately start yelling at you when the pedal is released and shortly thereafter penalty brake you, but on the HST in both Normal and Isolate that didn't happen. I gave it a good few minutes going down the line with both isolation settings and no screaming or penalty braking to be had.
Also sitting in the Secondman's seat depresses the Driver's DSD pedal.

I can also confirm the A6 bridge just East of Derby Etches Park Depot South clips the very top of trains. While messing around with that I also found that the girder of the bridge has some texture issues.



I'm still having great fun, though

 

Looking forward to the missing patch hopefully it will be released very soon

 

Without being a driver, this is a very tricky one to judge. I think the 158 is almost right ( time you factor in releasing the brake lever AFTER rev-up like most drivers are taught to do )

You can see in the video once at full throttle it only takes a very short amount of time to get off the line, and then it really does fly !!! No doubt the driver bunged that into notch 7 straight away. But I also believe that, contrary to the norm he also released the brakes BEFORE applying power so he’s there is a very short delay but not much at all. So one of the best examples we have of real life departures. If we compare this to rivet’s changed 150 where I believe there is a much too long of a delay pulling off. I think the 158 is in good shape. What do others think

 

.
When I was a guard, there was 2 hisses of brake release and then power applied to the 150's. Obviously the 150/2 would take longer as they had automatic closing doors and were extremely slow shutting. However, I feel the 158 moves off too rapidly. If there was a 1 second delay to propel the traction motors, I feel this would work. Look at how great the 323 operates and allows time to power the motors before moving off.

 

I think I’m inclined to agree with you. It could be a fraction longer of a delay. One second would be enough for sure. Anything longer than that would be too long though.

 

I defer to your knowledge Alex. I am happy to pass on your comments and guidance to William on this.

 

heya, that is accurate I believe for the HST yes. We had a lot of discussion on this with real HST engineers and drivers.

 

I also think the 158 seems a bit too quick to move when applying some power, I wouldn't have thought it should be that instant. I remember the 150's before we got those awful 172's and there seemed a noticeable delay from applying power and the train moving.

 

jane-skyhook is there any chance of getting rid of those American freight flange squeal sounds when a HST take a corner as they are clearly looped and sound awful. The class 323 and some other UK routes have much better screech (flange squeal) sounds that could be used instead. Can you help?

 

How is it that I can never see these imbedded videos?

 

Yes, it does seem to have extraordinary acceleration for a diesel powered train.
I start the train in notch 6, which is probably wrong, but it reaches cruising speed very quickly.that way.​

 

HST sounds came with the HST from DTG, but happy to have a quick word with their sound team.

 

I don't know if the acceleration is off, I haven't been on one for years now and can't recall the experience. It is the instant pull away as you open the throttle, it does seem too instant to me certainly compared to the other hydraulic transmission fitted DMU's of that generation.

 

Thank you for that and also you may be interested to know that 158 services get stuck in free roam mode at random times. I usually like to watch the trains go past and sadly the 158 seems to (sometimes) close the doors at a station and not proceed to move and can be there for hours...

 

As a diesel-hydraulic, it doesn't have traction motors. But it does take a little time to pump fluid into the torque converter. The pump for this is mechanically connected to the engine, so the delay would be related to the throttle position.

I've heard that standard driving technique for the Sprinter and Pacer family is, whenever applying power from idle (regardless of whether at a stand or coasting) to initially select notches 3-5, then wait for the torque converter to fill (signified by a slight drop in the engine note) before increasing further. Once the torque converter (or fluid coupling) is filled sufficiently to load the engine, there is no problem in selecting notch 7. The point is to avoid racing the engine with no load.

 

Thanks I hadn't realise it was diesel hydraulic. Very good point mate, cheers!

 

That change in motor noise is evident in the sim for the 158.

 

Apologies for quoting myself, but I think this post was overlooked somehow. The issues reported are rather major too, as they concern 2 core gameplay mechanics. Briefly: the overlay reward for completing Mastery is missing, and there are 2 missing (well, sort of 1, as one of those was extra previously) and 1 inaccessible collectables. The minor bugs in that post are whatever, but the major ones should probably be looked into for Patch 2.

 

Certainly it’s accurate that you need to pass over each TPWS grid below a certain speed to avoid triggering a brake activation. The question is, what speed? There’s no easy answer to that, as in real life it’s calculated separately for every single grid using an equation taking into account multiple factors. The calculated speed is not published, so the poor game developer is left guessing, as are the rest of us.

Certainly, as Jane says, there are a few ‘rogue’ locations on MML where a brake application occurs where it definitely should not, but I think that might be a different issue as the brake demand light on the TPWS does not appear to illuminate. Anyway, Jane tells us they’re fixing it, which is great news.

So that will leave us to debate, probably eternally, whether the remaining TPWS grids are set at the correct speeds. Unless an ‘insider’ actually produces the correct speeds for these particular locations, nobody can say for certain. Those with some experience with the things in real life can have a pretty good guess for any grid, but we can’t say definitively.

My advice to any route developer would be to be set the trigger speeds as high as you reasonably think they could be for the location. Lots of people will complain about getting a TPWS activation when they don’t think they should have done. Virtually nobody will complain about not getting a TPWS activation when they think they should have.

Remember - in real life TPWS does absolute nothing if you drive correctly. It’s designed to be an ‘invisible’ system. Personally I de-activate it in any train where that’s possible (without deactivating the AWS). Unfortunately on the HST you can’t.

 

Marcsharp, thank you. Duff to Nottingham is a very enjoyable scenario indeed.

 

The actual acceleration is bang on. I’ve measured it against real life recordings numerous times. That isn’t the issue. It’s just a fraction more of a delay between the engine revs peaking, and actually *starting* to move off. Most drivers usually go Notch 3, 5 7 but it varies greatly between driver, station, speed limits etc.

 

Diesels aren't necessarily sluggish

 

These aren’t. When going out and doing real life measurements I’d forgotten how quickly they can pelt it off the line. Example below is pretty brisk. Driver goes to notch 7 almost straight away !

 

Yeah i have noticed the dsd on the hst. I put it on once with aws as normal. The dsd alarm goes off, i push b button on xbox and it doesnt clear it so i end up with emergency brakes applied. So now i only use aws

 

Morning all, this made me chuckle..

 

Wouldn't it be funny if the hotfix released at the same time.

 

I was just going to post that it's unlikely DTG will release the hotfix for patch 1 today, since it's a Friday and they wouldn't be able to (re-)react over the weekend. However, seeing that news about MML IRL, wouldn't it be perfect if it was released on the weekend

 

When we say ‘hotfix’ for patch 1, surely we mean ‘the rest of’ instead?

I’d have said the fact that it they wouldn’t have to deal with it over the weekend means is more likely to be released today rather than less!

 

Afternoon/Good Morning Gang,

Apologies for the late update, I have been knee deep in stuff. Ok, the plan was for the hotfix to be released today. We held it back slightly as Aaron has done some work on updating the PIS stuff, which we want to include. Currently making sure that all is good with that inclusion and we are parcelling up for publishing and distribution to you all. My fault, I just want to keep giving you guys as much as we can with every distribution.

In addition to what is on our list, we take all of your feedback very seriously, so there are some items included that you all shared with us recently. I will get you a final list just as soon as I can.

Jane

 

we posted at the same time I am calling it a hotfix, as it is a rapid iteration to address issues. Yes "rest of", but we ended up with quite a lot more added in there too.