I Don’t Like This Push For More ‘gameplay’.

TSW isn't like simrail where it was built with multiplayer within the core of the game. Adding multiplayer to tsw would require many parts of the game to be rebuilt so it won't be coming to tsw

 

Oh I see

 

Totally get where you’re coming from. I think most devs look at it the other way around: time fixing bugs takes time away from development. Fixes are endless, you will never be able to fix everything, you cannot withhold new development for the sake of fixing every bug. Doesn’t really matter if new people were brought in or not tbh, some dev time will be allotted to fixes and some to development. Imagine if the iPhone devs only ever focused on fixing bugs on the original iPhone? They’d never have gotten to where they are now- development goes on despite bugs.

If you think TSW isn’t an authentic simulator, wait until you see an “authentic” simulator. They’re not everything you seem to think they are. If I brought you the Lander Simulation training simulator or some of these other pro simulators you’d be like “what the hell am I looking at,” and will complain about immersion killing graphics and complete lack of layers and timetable.

 

Never looked at it that way before, so makes sense I suppose. Does seem though that there is far more development on new product than there is fixes for the core game that the new development plays on. Guess it’s a tricky balance. Thanks for the insight buddy.

 

Tsw is not an authentic simulator and frankly nothing is going to change my mind. They don't live up to the expectations and advertising they set themselves hence why they get called out for it. An authentic route is a route that closely resembles real life and authentic trains are trains and look and sound like their real life counterparts. Many of the routes and trains just aren't authentic. Sound is one of DTG's weak points when they do it themselves more often than not.

 

The simulator parts do focus on realism and are praised by real-life train people. The "gamey" parts are additions to the game and don't make the simulator parts any less so.

This. I can understand some people not being interested in new features DTG throws out (I personally have zero interest in playing as a guard), but why slag DTG for trying different things to see what people in general want? There's a big difference between "I don't care about this" and "DTG shouldn't even do this because I don't care about it." Nobody ever made a game better by not trying new things.

 

Just a quick note before I start is that I am just scrapping the surface as I have got to get some kip ready for work tomorrow so sorry for more of a summary rather than an analysis.

Although there are no routes or rolling stock I currently sign there are plenty routes and locos/units I know well enough or have signed in the past, to say that TSW is a simulator which does a very good job of representing what it's like to be train driver. There is no way it will be 100% accurate and actually I wouldn't want it to be because there are some things which just cause so many issues which happen on the real railway that wouldn't be right for the game, from power lines down to the very worst incidents which I am sure I will not have to mention. I would call the whole false advertising statements people on here are making nonsense as it is actually quite a close recreation of train driving considering I am sitting on my armchair at home with an xbox controller in my hand. At the same time though I find the WCL layers so awful that I need to just see the route as a bit of fun to give my BR diesels a stretch rather than an actual route but even then I see it as a bit of fun and just enjoy the accurately recreated diesels. I am more than happy with how TSW is at this moment in time as the medals I ignore and the collectables don't really bother me.

As I say I can go into more detail but overall I reckon TSW has balanced the scales perfectly at this moment in time so as long as the formula stays how it currently is I am more than happy. To reflect on what Calidore says above I have been on the railway years and I can honestly say that I am more than happy with the simulated parts of the game which seems to keep on being built on, for example TPWS and 158 guards buzzer to name two off my head.

 

PC players are somewhat spoiled by what choices they can pick for train sims.

MSTS/Open Rails
Trainz
Train Simulator Classic
Train Sim World
Run 8
SimRail

...just for starters.

Of course, not every sim on PC will fill everyone's needs (IE Run 8 only really serves the US Freight side of railroading)

 

I think people is too worried about the development time spent making the guard scenario. It was probably done by the same devs that do all the other scenarios and it did not take any time from the devs that work on the game core, timetables, route scenery, etc... that require a completely different skill set.

 

People are just asking for things like save game and stuttering to be fixed. Also features like random routing and weather tweaks would be good. Some realistic layering in UK routes would be good then be a guard and ticket barrier man etc can come. It's pretty obvious which way TSW is going now.....

 

No thanks. Don't need other people screwing up the game

 

Routing is much less random nowadays, with most stations having set platforms for arrivals. Only when there's a problem does this really ever deviate
Not sure what you mean by "realistic layering", but presumably that would need more train assets to be developed
Neither of the above are really negated by having a guard mode unless the people doing simugraph physics and route laying are also devving the guard mode which is unlikely

 

None of the things you mentioned has anything to do with scenario creation, so the guard scenario did not stop or delay any of it so far.

Also I dont think DTG has any plans to add the guard mechanic as shown in the scenario to timetable mode unless there is a ton of positive feedback to do it after playing the scenario.

Personally, I expect most people will like it as a one time thing but will not want to have it added to timetable mode.

Dont worry too much yet. The guard in timetable mode has a high probability of never happening.

 

Not to mention the mess that MP has occasionally created in SimRail with malevolent users causing issues for genuine players. You need look no further than these forums to see the likelihood of the more juvenile minded causing similar problems. MP best left well alone, IMHO.

 

Overall I'm quite happy with TSW, so I'd say keep up the good work.

I'm also quite happy with routes like West Cornwall offering a bigger variety of trains to be used, even if that means taking a tad more artistic liberty at the cost of realism. But that's a personal opinion. Ideally, I wish I was able to use any train on any route, like TSC Quick Drive mode. But I realize that's not for everyone.

But as a I said, I quite like TSW and it's the best train simulation game I've been able to find so far.

 

Pushing new gameplay on the arms of broken core is not a long term solution: for instance FIRST Make NPC/passengers working and behaving accordingly, make unified ACSES and ATC for all US route, make US freight trans look good (free the liveiries, fix unload issue) and unify the braking mechanic (make es44c4 brakes common for all freight locos), AND then push some funny gameplay like tickets checking or what ever... And yes fix the dynamic weather Im sick of fog.

 

Again...
Do you really think the devs who did the ticketting interaction have anything to do with brake mechanics
They might do with how passengers work on a route, but that's a core behaviour rather than a scenario specific behaviour so the impact is less

Your specific gripes are likely valid, but they don't therefore preclude any other development just because it's not on things you personally don't like, want, need etc

 

That's £18.00 saved then.

 

I don’t think there’s any gameplay being forced, if someone wants 100% simulation then I don’t get why they’d pick Journey mode - Timetable would surely be the better pick?

Picking up DTG on adding ‘gamey’ elements while you’re making use of one of them doesn’t seem right.

I do agree that I think DTG is focusing on the wrong areas, there’s a lot of instability/inconsistency/performance degradation going on in TSW & it’s core features.

Teams working on new stuff might not be responsible for older stuff, but we’re getting a lot of gimmicks lately with fixes taking the slow lines. It’s hard to get excited about new stuff when a lot of stuff I’ve already bought has various issues.

 

Agreed

As for the part on focus, I think a balance needs to be struck and a very good and strong one, especially when both are in my view needed.

 

I dont know who is responsible for what in DTG. What I see actually for the last 12months is a lot of gameplay fireworks and NON of core/community/insisted issue addressing updates (beside legendary derailing , and that is objective fact, not assumptions or wishful thinking. HOWGH.

 

Indeed. I am someone who prefers the less "gamey" more "simmy" aspects and play timetable almost exclusively, only dipping into scenarios occasionally, and never via the more narratively structured Journey mode. But I get why it's there for folks who want a more structured, guided progression through a storyline.

I for one would love to see that immersion improved with a timetable guard mode rather than it being relegated to scenarios, but am happy to at least see it getting looked into mechanically, even in a limited fashion.

 

From experience your right in that the plan is set platforms but no way that happens in reality constantly unless everything is running to exact time. One of the worst offenders in TSW is Clinchfield which has Mexican standoffs if you run late at passing loops.

 

Then don't speak as if you do

Wow. You must really be missing updates or have very specific issues that you want addressed.
Loads of updates and fixes on all sorts of issues have been released in the last 12 months!
That's not to say the game is in any way "fixed" or even reliable in some things, but to say there have been NO updates of core or DLC in the last 12 months is actually astounding...
I mean seriously, I would be looking at your game revision number and making sure you're getting updates because I have had a fair few in the last 12 months

CANCEL SARCASM

Again, the issues you highlighted in your previous post may well still be outstanding, and DTG are notorious for NOT fixing issues when they arise, but I do think saying they've not fixed anything is disingenuous

 

Yep, I don't doubt it. The dispatcher in game has some serious issues when it comes to pathing interaction and I haven't seen anything DTG says that would counter this

Lucky for me I only play UK content, so since they fixed the BML red light issues (for the most part) I don't get stuff like this any more

 

If that is your biggest issue then TSW3 must be doing something right! ROFL

 

Well, it's in my Steam Library, so it must be doing something right.

 

I want to drive trains and complete the journey chapters as I like the structure it provides for a variety of reasons I aren't going to go into here.

I have zero interest in Guard Sim World. Or Amateur Photography World yet that's being forced on me if I opted to purchase this route.

I'm not buying the whole all scenarios are part of journeys, there's plenty of examples of where standalone scenarios exist outside the journey chapters even on very recent releases, for example Niddertalbahn.

The money I've saved by not buying Glossop, Peak Forrest ( jubilee on locals and every passenger service stopping at Ambergate) and the class 700/1 ( la la land layers forced on SEHS) has been plowed into Zusi. And unless the direction of TSW changes that it's unlikely DTG will ever see any further revenue from me.

Between the 60+ DLC I own on TSW and my TSC collection (along with Zusi) I've enough content that I enjoy playing without the need to pay for anymore bad routes

 

Not sure how you're saying the 700 is "la la land layers" when we don't know what runs it does yet, and if it only goes between Dartford and Rainham, stopping almost everywhere then that's exactly what it does in real life (as well as stabling in Gillingham overnight and weekends)

 

Agree!! It has taken a while for development but as a professional engineer/train driver I can safely vouch it is a simulator. If it wasn't a simulator then I wouldn't be using it. And nothing else is near this.

 

But that’s my point, you’re saying DTG shouldn’t be adding things that make TSW more ‘gamey’ but you’re only playing TSW using a ‘gamey feature’.

The 700/0 is a very realistic layer, SEHS is less realistic without it.

 

SEHS is littered with la la land layers, ICE3 or TGV, EWS on RHTT (should be GBRf) running on HS1 - doesn't happen. Because of this I've uninstalled the route so no interest in buying a loco DLC for it.

 

The route has la la land layers all over the place.

 

It's actually a serious railway operating issue. Guard dispatching a train on reds in UK. Replicating it in a licensed simulator is certainly a point worth raising with the dev team. I mean you get game over instantly for a SPAD but can go on a red?

 

Can't disagree on the "one time specials" that have appeared but you've left out that there's any freight on CML, because IRL there isn't any
With regards to RHTT I guess they don't have the GBRf license but you could also say that the class 73 or the RHTT specific trains would be ultimately more suitable as that's what I've seen most running RHTT on the CML IRL

Not really a reason for me not to buy the entire route though... I just uninstall the layers I disagree with (and only have UK DLC anyway)

 

In some way, TSW gives us the option to choose how we want to view it as. The gamey features are always there but can be ignored if one wants more of a simulator feel. I usually play a variation of the timetable services and career scenario. Not so much focused on the points system but my main goal is getting from point A to point B. Once in a while, I do find it cool to find hidden Easter eggs in the routes. I mainly play the New York to Trenton route, Harlem Line, Boston Sprinter, Brighton Main Line, LIRR and London Underground. While there may be bugs here and there, I am overall happy with the graphics and scenery details

 

Really don't get how journey is "gamey" all it's doing is preselecting which service I drive next?

You think professional train drivers pick and choose which service to run or drive a prescribed pattern of services. Just selecting which service you want to drive is more gamey.

 

If they were arranged as "a day in the life" I would agree with you, in fact that's what I would want from such a mode
Unfortunately it's not so you find yourself doing a training module, then an ECS, then a couple of runs from the same end to the same other end, then maybe a depot start

The only reason I play journey at all is because I don't really want to have to choose the weather each time, and if you don't choose it you'll inevitably end up in a thunder storm or thick fog, no matter what you choose to begin with

 

That might be true for older DLC, but more recent do tend to have a few services which are tied together in order.

 

I had to restart my profile due to issues... The RHTT journey mode and the electrostar drag journeys are definitely as I described
Still better than that darn fog everywhere

 

I wouldn't say the RHTT are that bad, they do miss a few sections out mind, which I'd have preferred they'd left in.

Can't comment on the Electrostar drag 37's as I'd reach the end of my patience seeing TGVs and ICE wizz pass and taken the route out of my regular rotation.

 

I tend to avoid the HS1 bit anyway as is pretty boring

 

Certainly for me these fantastical layers do diminsh the immersion of a route although I suppose those only happen once a day so they aren't too bad.

For me, WCL has been totally ruined though by the layers on it, I just don't see how anyone can think they make the route more realistic, it isn't the busiest stretch of line anyway. I understand they add more "gameplay" especially if you don't care about realism but it isn't as if you get the full run of an express between Plymouth and Penzance, you start off in the middle of nowhere (apologies to any St. Austell residents). Certainly layering in the class 40 and 45 is barmy in my view. The 47 at least was still a regular sight in the area at the time, although would by then have been rare in BR blue especially on a express passenger. And, who thought it was okay not to include a brake coach, that does show a lack of understanding of railway practice at the time.

I did have an enjoyable run on the class 31 on Cathcart yesterday on a railtour. However three mark 2 SO's top and tailed by a class 47 and 31 which clearly haven't been cleaned do not really represent a typical railtour. The new Rivet steam pack with its five carriage trains and the new class 33 layer on SEHS all with five carriages are not realistic.

If you are going to add fictional railtours, which I do think are a nice touch, at least make them believable!

Also using locos without TPWS on railtours is not realistic either.

 

I could happily live without railtours...
There seems to be a focus on them on the CML and the only tours I've ever seen on there are steam or class 67 hauled. Almost all the others go down the Kent Mainline via Ashford and even then they're mostly steam

 

Just want to say that I really appreciate the guard and photo scenarios. Scenarios are perfect for exploring these unique facets of railway life, and I’m glad the DTG team is continuing to experiment and push the boundaries. They’re arguably also listening to community feedback here as a dedicated guard mode has been requested for years and this is a great way to test the waters, so to speak.

We all have different wishes and expectations. If you don’t like a specific feature or offering, you don’t have to play it!

 

By that standard, Run 8 and Zusi aren't "simulators" either.

 

I totally appreciate how it can be difficult at times to please everyone as you mentioned with newer content, which is completely understandable. With TSW by far my favourite game, I obviously would love to see DTG try new things.

However, I think DTG also need to strike a fine balance when it comes to new routes and what they want to offer the player from a gameplay experience. For example, in my personal opinion, it has felt within TSW 3, many of the recent UK routes - both from DTG and third-party - have been way too similar as BCC, E-G and the upcoming Glossop Line are all mainly similar one-loco, AC commuter passenger-only routes featuring huge, more emptier mainline stations (plus, where's the freight, high-speed content?) - though to be fair, having watched the Glossop stream, I like that Piccadilly feels a bit busier than expected thanks to more just AI-only traffic (which quite a few recent UK routes seemed to have lacked for some reason) as well as having AI EMT 158s from MML which is good to see.

Anyway, I understand - and agree - that new TOCs, rolling stock and brand-new locations are much-needed for TSW, but there also needs more routes too that use existing content and/or locations such as the fantastic routes/timetables like SEHS and London Commuter (the latter alone is a great example because it used content from SEHS, ECW, GWE and so on for both playable and AI services) and I would certainly love to see more routes like these which have existing content to better enhance timetables/long-term gameplay. One final thing, if DTG want to provide more value for the content players already own already, then I'd highly recommended more loco DLCs for a lot of older routes too (preferably even a TOD 4 update like Boston Sprinter, although I'd say this would be nice to have rather than necessary though).