I Don’t Like This Push For More ‘gameplay’.

Just a quick note before I start is that I am just scrapping the surface as I have got to get some kip ready for work tomorrow so sorry for more of a summary rather than an analysis.

Although there are no routes or rolling stock I currently sign there are plenty routes and locos/units I know well enough or have signed in the past, to say that TSW is a simulator which does a very good job of representing what it's like to be train driver. There is no way it will be 100% accurate and actually I wouldn't want it to be because there are some things which just cause so many issues which happen on the real railway that wouldn't be right for the game, from power lines down to the very worst incidents which I am sure I will not have to mention. I would call the whole false advertising statements people on here are making nonsense as it is actually quite a close recreation of train driving considering I am sitting on my armchair at home with an xbox controller in my hand. At the same time though I find the WCL layers so awful that I need to just see the route as a bit of fun to give my BR diesels a stretch rather than an actual route but even then I see it as a bit of fun and just enjoy the accurately recreated diesels. I am more than happy with how TSW is at this moment in time as the medals I ignore and the collectables don't really bother me.

As I say I can go into more detail but overall I reckon TSW has balanced the scales perfectly at this moment in time so as long as the formula stays how it currently is I am more than happy. To reflect on what Calidore says above I have been on the railway years and I can honestly say that I am more than happy with the simulated parts of the game which seems to keep on being built on, for example TPWS and 158 guards buzzer to name two off my head.

 

PC players are somewhat spoiled by what choices they can pick for train sims.

MSTS/Open Rails
Trainz
Train Simulator Classic
Train Sim World
Run 8
SimRail

...just for starters.

Of course, not every sim on PC will fill everyone's needs (IE Run 8 only really serves the US Freight side of railroading)

 

I think people is too worried about the development time spent making the guard scenario. It was probably done by the same devs that do all the other scenarios and it did not take any time from the devs that work on the game core, timetables, route scenery, etc... that require a completely different skill set.

 

People are just asking for things like save game and stuttering to be fixed. Also features like random routing and weather tweaks would be good. Some realistic layering in UK routes would be good then be a guard and ticket barrier man etc can come. It's pretty obvious which way TSW is going now.....

 

No thanks. Don't need other people screwing up the game

 

Routing is much less random nowadays, with most stations having set platforms for arrivals. Only when there's a problem does this really ever deviate
Not sure what you mean by "realistic layering", but presumably that would need more train assets to be developed
Neither of the above are really negated by having a guard mode unless the people doing simugraph physics and route laying are also devving the guard mode which is unlikely

 

None of the things you mentioned has anything to do with scenario creation, so the guard scenario did not stop or delay any of it so far.

Also I dont think DTG has any plans to add the guard mechanic as shown in the scenario to timetable mode unless there is a ton of positive feedback to do it after playing the scenario.

Personally, I expect most people will like it as a one time thing but will not want to have it added to timetable mode.

Dont worry too much yet. The guard in timetable mode has a high probability of never happening.

 

Not to mention the mess that MP has occasionally created in SimRail with malevolent users causing issues for genuine players. You need look no further than these forums to see the likelihood of the more juvenile minded causing similar problems. MP best left well alone, IMHO.

 

Overall I'm quite happy with TSW, so I'd say keep up the good work.

I'm also quite happy with routes like West Cornwall offering a bigger variety of trains to be used, even if that means taking a tad more artistic liberty at the cost of realism. But that's a personal opinion. Ideally, I wish I was able to use any train on any route, like TSC Quick Drive mode. But I realize that's not for everyone.

But as a I said, I quite like TSW and it's the best train simulation game I've been able to find so far.

 

Pushing new gameplay on the arms of broken core is not a long term solution: for instance FIRST Make NPC/passengers working and behaving accordingly, make unified ACSES and ATC for all US route, make US freight trans look good (free the liveiries, fix unload issue) and unify the braking mechanic (make es44c4 brakes common for all freight locos), AND then push some funny gameplay like tickets checking or what ever... And yes fix the dynamic weather Im sick of fog.

 

Again...
Do you really think the devs who did the ticketting interaction have anything to do with brake mechanics
They might do with how passengers work on a route, but that's a core behaviour rather than a scenario specific behaviour so the impact is less

Your specific gripes are likely valid, but they don't therefore preclude any other development just because it's not on things you personally don't like, want, need etc

 

I don’t think there’s any gameplay being forced, if someone wants 100% simulation then I don’t get why they’d pick Journey mode - Timetable would surely be the better pick?

Picking up DTG on adding ‘gamey’ elements while you’re making use of one of them doesn’t seem right.

I do agree that I think DTG is focusing on the wrong areas, there’s a lot of instability/inconsistency/performance degradation going on in TSW & it’s core features.

Teams working on new stuff might not be responsible for older stuff, but we’re getting a lot of gimmicks lately with fixes taking the slow lines. It’s hard to get excited about new stuff when a lot of stuff I’ve already bought has various issues.

 

Agreed

As for the part on focus, I think a balance needs to be struck and a very good and strong one, especially when both are in my view needed.

 

I dont know who is responsible for what in DTG. What I see actually for the last 12months is a lot of gameplay fireworks and NON of core/community/insisted issue addressing updates (beside legendary derailing , and that is objective fact, not assumptions or wishful thinking. HOWGH.

 

Indeed. I am someone who prefers the less "gamey" more "simmy" aspects and play timetable almost exclusively, only dipping into scenarios occasionally, and never via the more narratively structured Journey mode. But I get why it's there for folks who want a more structured, guided progression through a storyline.

I for one would love to see that immersion improved with a timetable guard mode rather than it being relegated to scenarios, but am happy to at least see it getting looked into mechanically, even in a limited fashion.

 

From experience your right in that the plan is set platforms but no way that happens in reality constantly unless everything is running to exact time. One of the worst offenders in TSW is Clinchfield which has Mexican standoffs if you run late at passing loops.

 

Then don't speak as if you do

Wow. You must really be missing updates or have very specific issues that you want addressed.
Loads of updates and fixes on all sorts of issues have been released in the last 12 months!
That's not to say the game is in any way "fixed" or even reliable in some things, but to say there have been NO updates of core or DLC in the last 12 months is actually astounding...
I mean seriously, I would be looking at your game revision number and making sure you're getting updates because I have had a fair few in the last 12 months

CANCEL SARCASM

Again, the issues you highlighted in your previous post may well still be outstanding, and DTG are notorious for NOT fixing issues when they arise, but I do think saying they've not fixed anything is disingenuous

 

Yep, I don't doubt it. The dispatcher in game has some serious issues when it comes to pathing interaction and I haven't seen anything DTG says that would counter this

Lucky for me I only play UK content, so since they fixed the BML red light issues (for the most part) I don't get stuff like this any more

 

If that is your biggest issue then TSW3 must be doing something right! ROFL

 

Well, it's in my Steam Library, so it must be doing something right.

 

Not sure how you're saying the 700 is "la la land layers" when we don't know what runs it does yet, and if it only goes between Dartford and Rainham, stopping almost everywhere then that's exactly what it does in real life (as well as stabling in Gillingham overnight and weekends)

 

Agree!! It has taken a while for development but as a professional engineer/train driver I can safely vouch it is a simulator. If it wasn't a simulator then I wouldn't be using it. And nothing else is near this.

 

But that’s my point, you’re saying DTG shouldn’t be adding things that make TSW more ‘gamey’ but you’re only playing TSW using a ‘gamey feature’.

The 700/0 is a very realistic layer, SEHS is less realistic without it.

 

It's actually a serious railway operating issue. Guard dispatching a train on reds in UK. Replicating it in a licensed simulator is certainly a point worth raising with the dev team. I mean you get game over instantly for a SPAD but can go on a red?

 

Can't disagree on the "one time specials" that have appeared but you've left out that there's any freight on CML, because IRL there isn't any
With regards to RHTT I guess they don't have the GBRf license but you could also say that the class 73 or the RHTT specific trains would be ultimately more suitable as that's what I've seen most running RHTT on the CML IRL

Not really a reason for me not to buy the entire route though... I just uninstall the layers I disagree with (and only have UK DLC anyway)

 

In some way, TSW gives us the option to choose how we want to view it as. The gamey features are always there but can be ignored if one wants more of a simulator feel. I usually play a variation of the timetable services and career scenario. Not so much focused on the points system but my main goal is getting from point A to point B. Once in a while, I do find it cool to find hidden Easter eggs in the routes. I mainly play the New York to Trenton route, Harlem Line, Boston Sprinter, Brighton Main Line, LIRR and London Underground. While there may be bugs here and there, I am overall happy with the graphics and scenery details

 

If they were arranged as "a day in the life" I would agree with you, in fact that's what I would want from such a mode
Unfortunately it's not so you find yourself doing a training module, then an ECS, then a couple of runs from the same end to the same other end, then maybe a depot start

The only reason I play journey at all is because I don't really want to have to choose the weather each time, and if you don't choose it you'll inevitably end up in a thunder storm or thick fog, no matter what you choose to begin with

 

I had to restart my profile due to issues... The RHTT journey mode and the electrostar drag journeys are definitely as I described
Still better than that darn fog everywhere

 

I tend to avoid the HS1 bit anyway as is pretty boring

 

Certainly for me these fantastical layers do diminsh the immersion of a route although I suppose those only happen once a day so they aren't too bad.

For me, WCL has been totally ruined though by the layers on it, I just don't see how anyone can think they make the route more realistic, it isn't the busiest stretch of line anyway. I understand they add more "gameplay" especially if you don't care about realism but it isn't as if you get the full run of an express between Plymouth and Penzance, you start off in the middle of nowhere (apologies to any St. Austell residents). Certainly layering in the class 40 and 45 is barmy in my view. The 47 at least was still a regular sight in the area at the time, although would by then have been rare in BR blue especially on a express passenger. And, who thought it was okay not to include a brake coach, that does show a lack of understanding of railway practice at the time.

I did have an enjoyable run on the class 31 on Cathcart yesterday on a railtour. However three mark 2 SO's top and tailed by a class 47 and 31 which clearly haven't been cleaned do not really represent a typical railtour. The new Rivet steam pack with its five carriage trains and the new class 33 layer on SEHS all with five carriages are not realistic.

If you are going to add fictional railtours, which I do think are a nice touch, at least make them believable!

Also using locos without TPWS on railtours is not realistic either.

 

I could happily live without railtours...
There seems to be a focus on them on the CML and the only tours I've ever seen on there are steam or class 67 hauled. Almost all the others go down the Kent Mainline via Ashford and even then they're mostly steam

 

Just want to say that I really appreciate the guard and photo scenarios. Scenarios are perfect for exploring these unique facets of railway life, and I’m glad the DTG team is continuing to experiment and push the boundaries. They’re arguably also listening to community feedback here as a dedicated guard mode has been requested for years and this is a great way to test the waters, so to speak.

We all have different wishes and expectations. If you don’t like a specific feature or offering, you don’t have to play it!

 

By that standard, Run 8 and Zusi aren't "simulators" either.

 

I totally appreciate how it can be difficult at times to please everyone as you mentioned with newer content, which is completely understandable. With TSW by far my favourite game, I obviously would love to see DTG try new things.

However, I think DTG also need to strike a fine balance when it comes to new routes and what they want to offer the player from a gameplay experience. For example, in my personal opinion, it has felt within TSW 3, many of the recent UK routes - both from DTG and third-party - have been way too similar as BCC, E-G and the upcoming Glossop Line are all mainly similar one-loco, AC commuter passenger-only routes featuring huge, more emptier mainline stations (plus, where's the freight, high-speed content?) - though to be fair, having watched the Glossop stream, I like that Piccadilly feels a bit busier than expected thanks to more just AI-only traffic (which quite a few recent UK routes seemed to have lacked for some reason) as well as having AI EMT 158s from MML which is good to see.

Anyway, I understand - and agree - that new TOCs, rolling stock and brand-new locations are much-needed for TSW, but there also needs more routes too that use existing content and/or locations such as the fantastic routes/timetables like SEHS and London Commuter (the latter alone is a great example because it used content from SEHS, ECW, GWE and so on for both playable and AI services) and I would certainly love to see more routes like these which have existing content to better enhance timetables/long-term gameplay. One final thing, if DTG want to provide more value for the content players already own already, then I'd highly recommended more loco DLCs for a lot of older routes too (preferably even a TOD 4 update like Boston Sprinter, although I'd say this would be nice to have rather than necessary though).

 

And yet some people want to see Tehachapi Pass come to TSW. If Clinchfield has problems with its light mainline timetable, I can only imagine how bad the dispatcher can handle the increased amount of traffic Tehachapi has with its single track main....

US freight on TSW is doomed to double track mains with A-B runs with hand holding switching....

 

It doesn't help that Clinchfield handles the passing loops all wrong: northbounds are always routed right, as if it were a double-tracked RR, which means they are routed through the passing loop and thus slowed to 15 mph. In reality of course all trains use the mainline unless a passing situation occurs.

 

I'm sorry but 'la la land layers' seriously?!

I get that your not happy with some of the seasonal layers on Sehs but you are blowing this way out of proportion now.

 

One could argue having all these fictional layers is like being in la la land. This wouldn't be an issue if we just had a option to turn off fictional layers that kill immersion for those that don't want them.

This is something that should be brought up in the next roadmap stream because shoving trains into routes that never ran on a line in real life is not a solution for everyone. A toggle would easily solve this problem.

DTG also really don't build on existing routes as well which leads to mostly major stations being empty or having unrealistic layers on a route

 

I think DTG is struggling with what it is we’ve asked for previously.

As a community we’ve been very vocal about seeing more life in routes, from static stock & AI to playable services.

Some of this is down to us not being able to use our trains on other routes, and some of it is down to lifeless routes & lacking timetables.

I do think the TGV & ICE look silly on SEHS, this is an example of going to far with artistic license.

Omitting over 60% of the timetable on NEC:NJ because we didn’t have the exact type of loco was too far in the opposite direction. The ALP 46 is perfectly suitable for this one.

It’s hard for me to believe that DTG are unable to find the medium they need with this, there is a very clear line between being sensible and being silly when it comes to the layers we have seen.

Frankly though, the issue keeps coming back to underwhelming timetables. Routes are just too empty right now. Maybe DTG need to stop looking at everywhere they can reuse trains & start investing some dev time into making new ones.

Fortunately loco DLC’s are picking up again, but we do need more.

 

Well to be fair NJ Transit only has 10 ALP-46s although then begs the question as to why not just make the ALP-46A which is frankly very similar to the ALP-46 but just has a higher top speed. DTG keep making poor choices that goes and bites them in the behind when they keep cutting corners

 

That’s my point though, the ALP46 is remarkably similar to what it would stand in for, yet that’s where they drew the line on realism - in stark contrast to other decisions.

 

They have a large BR stockist which could fill many routes in the right era. The 47 and 45 are staples for anything 1960s to late 80s. But as we
are told BR doesn't sell. Instead we get one train, huge stations and timetables that are so thin they would fall through a grid. Manchester Picc in this new route is still massively empty. The EMR 158s only run once an hour each way for a start.

There could do with being some investment in locos that could transition between eras. 56s and 60s for one spring to mind. The 142 if its coming is another.

 

The full njt timetable even with the alp46 was not made since dtg ran out of time. Only the amtrak timetable was the complete one on release.

Different sounds, physics and slightly different modeling. May look similar but still big enough differences to take it just as much time as a brand new locomotive.

 

I do agree that BR would be an easy way to solve the issue short term, personally I don’t think we’re far off a BR route.

They say it sells poorly, without trying to sell it, and it’s always asked for with new UK routes “where are the railtours”.

Any route, regardless of era or stock, is going to sell well if it’s busy. BML has got to be one of the most popular routes, whilst having what is arguably TSW’s most boring train as the theme.

 

I'd call them exactly what they are, seasonal layers that only appear on very specific parts of the route which (imo at least) make the route feel more alive.

 

That award is probably shared with the near silent 1442 in the original RT and any or in fact all of the 766 Dosto cab cars. Spending nearly an hour driving the latter on a tedious all stops trip to Meissen (or any other route) makes me want to ring the dentist and arrange root canal surgery...without any local anaesthetic!!

I too am hoping the big summer UK release is a return to BR Blue but not holding my breath.

 

Is there any history in the TSW series that shows DTG that BR Blue does not sell ? I’m sure I’m not alone in saying BR Blue would be a great DLC.