Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

[EDIT - Jan - Off-Topic and Quarrelsome]

 

Oh for Christ's sake, not that load of rubbish again!

Absolutely everything in that link is a complete pack of lies, you should be ashamed of yourself bringing that load of hurtful rubbish back to this forum.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

Wait and see for yourself.

 

I will with great interest but I already know what the result will be, you'll see...

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

There seems to be a discrepancy between patches on different platforms for MML. I have done a number of services since the latest update on Steam and all the signalling and TPWS issues appear to have been resolved.

Rain now appears on HST windows without having to go to an external view first and the DSD isolation switch has been corrected. However, the DRA isolation switch is still reversed and I am still not able to acknowledge DSD with a controller.

 

It seems to have been a while since someone from Skyhook or DTG has communicated via this thread. It would be super helpful right now as there's clearly a lot of confusion and frustration. The updates don't seem to have fixed anything, and different people are experiencing different things. We'd all like some explanations.

I couldn't care less about most of the fixes, right now I just want to be able to play the route without it crashing.

 

Anyone able to tag JD to see if the issues are being sorted and a patch being put together?

 

DTG JD

Can you please iron out all these questions JD, I'm sick and tired of no communication from yourselves regarding a product created by a 3rd party content creator your company has employed.

You are still required to assist the forum where possible, especially in absence of the representative of the respective 3rd party and clearly you can see there is a lot of confusion and disappointment regarding the patches and your awful QA team that are being slated for incompetence.

 

Holy.. Well, then there's nothing to it. We've been thoroughly lied to and so, as it seems, were the folks at DTG. What I don't understand is why would Jane just talk about this for weeks, inventing this elaborate "different incomplete patches for every platform caused by a rogue version checking program" story, when, according to Matt, that just not what happened? (I finally watched the livestream, btw) There were no "missing files," no "incomplete versions" of the patch ever went to players (what we got is exactly what was intended), and no "hotfix" was ever in development, much less "imminent," as Jane repeatedly claimed it was — because there was nothing to fix.

It appears that what we got on the 7th of June was the full Patch 1, just with a metric ton full of lies (or, if you would prefer a more sanitised word, exaggerations or miscommunications) in the patch notes. And what we got the other day was the full Patch 2. Again, with patch notes that wildly disagree with reality. I, for one, would like some clarification from DTG on this issue, as it appears that SHG has repeatedly claimed to have fixed things which are still demonstrably not fixed. And well, some closure on why this "rogue program/hotfix" fairytale was not checked for weeks.

 

I don’t think we’ve been lied to. That’s a strong accusation to make. I don’t however think we’ve had the correct version of events from either side and given that Jane isn’t here at the moment I think it’s fair to wait and see what Skyhook have to say.

I don’t however believe they deliberately lied. That would destroy their reputation I also wasn’t convinced by Matt’s explanation. Given that he wasn’t aware of the open door bug on BML and that is one of the most posted about bugs, I wonder how in touch he is with some of the day to day issues. In my opinion it’s not like Matt to deliberately throw Jane under a bus like he appears to have done.

I think we need to calm down a bit and wait for a proper explanation. If that ever comes. I think we’re owed it given the confusion.

I am though incredibly disappointed with this release (don’t currently own it). I want it badly, but I want it to be good. At the moment I’m not willing to take the risk.

 

It's easy to attack Jane when they aren't here. But this isn't anything to do with Skyhook either, it seems the GWE HST livery has borked this hot patch. That isn't Jane's fault or anyone else at Skyhook and attacking them when Jane has been clear since day one it'll take a few updates is below the belt. Don't forget DTG delayed this update while they sorted their mess out.

 

It's all a bit of a mess isn't it.

 

Indeed it is. Hopefully somebody comes up with a clear response soon.

 

The one burning question I really have is this - why has it taken so long to fix TPWS issues which are seemingly still occurring?

If you cast your mind back 9 months or so, there was a similar TPWS bug that was throwing up just outside Lichfield City on Birmingham Cross-City which DTG fixed quickly. The TPWS bug should IMO be right at the top of the priority hotfix list* as it stops you playing with safety systems engaged, but we're now two patches in and still having issues. It's pretty close to a game-breaking issue when it's difficult to complete services without getting TPWS-d.

*alongside PS crashing issues

Clearly something not right in the process here.

 

You can't label pointing out demonstrable facts as an attack. Come on. Matt directly contradicted Jane's, in hindsight, rather fanciful "rogue program/incomplete patch/imminent hotfix" story, so of necessity, someone must be wrong. Personally, I would trust Matt, who has worked with DTG for absolute ages, over a new hire at a third-party contractor.

But hey, let's see how it goes. Maybe there's a good explanation for this mess after all.

 

I think the process is just fine, this has never been an issue before with any other content or 3rd party.

Someone is telling porkies, and if I were a betting man my money would be that the answer to my question on the roadmap stream is highly likely to be the truth of it.

 

If what Matt said on Stream, does turn out to be true then it reflects very badly on both companies.

Firstly it would mean Skyhook didn’t tell the truth and that is unforgivable. If that’s the case, I will never buy another product from them.

Secondly it means DTG didn’t test against what Skyhook said they were releasing or it would have been caught that something didn’t line up. That’s where Matts version that one of the beta testers had the wrong version seems odd. If they reported something something was missing, but it did actually get released, then it still got released broken.

I still don’t think we have the full story and I wish someone at DTG would make a definitive statement. They’ve let this story carry on and it needs resolving even if it does look bad for one of the parties.

At the moment I just feel sorry for those that paid money for this mess and I don’t think creating a thread specially to report bugs on is really enough.

For the record I’m more inclined to Matt’s version as well. I just don’t think we have all the facts.

 

I'm getting to the point where I feel like ditching the whole TSW experience.
I think I need to calm down and watch re-runs of Come Dine With Me while poking my eyes with a needle.
Even Erno Rubik won't be able to sort this mess out.

 

Okay, so what is that understanding at present?

 

But there’s stuff in patch 1 and 2 (this week) that still isn’t fixed. The HST AWS/DSD switches are still the wrong way round. I’ve had both patches on PS5 but it isn’t fixed despite that being in patch 1.

 

I've gone from looking forward to this route more than any other for years, to not touching it at all.. the AWS issues are frustrating but the fact I cannot approach Nottingham station on a HST without crashing, not even once, is to me unplayable..

on the other hand i was sceptical about Glossop but i've been proved wrong, it's a surprisingly engaging route with minimal issues, so credit where it is due to DTG for Glossop.

STG and the Midland Route however is another story, i haven't had any other route (including London-Brighton) crash on me on my PS4 for over 6 months at least, but this crashes so frequently as it currently stands that it's a hugely dissapointing DLC.

 

Calling someone a liar is deff. an attack.

If you pay attention to what Matt actually said in yesterday's stream- which is the basis for accusing Jane/TSG of lying - it's very clear that the issue was a miscommunication. One of the beta testers, having not yet received a patched build, thought he had and reported that his patch must be "incomplete." This got back to TSG, which concluded something had slipped with DTG's upload- but in fact there was never an issue. Patch 1 never purported to be a complete fix, and I have no idea why some people expected it to be.

 

Unfortunately I think the shine has been taken off this route now. Too many issues. It's a shame as it was a anticipated route especially with the 158. Let's hope DTG and Skyhook can turn things around quickly. Thing is there's another release next Tuesday, the class 700 so concentration will be on that.

 

One of the major items of Patch 1 was a complete overhaul of the signalling. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that that went in - all the bugs that I was aware of are still there, after Patch 2. What I want to know is whether that got lost on the SHG end or somewhere subsequent to that.

 

Not being able to organise a booze up in a brewery springs to mind, wish I'd of held back buying this route now until I seen it fully fixed instead of purchasing in anticipation of it being fixed.

 

I definately think accusing people of lying, as well as being unedifying is also a pretty unpleasant way to behave. Also, unless it can be backed up by facts surely calling someone a liar on a public forum is putting yourself on slighty dodgy ground.

I have only had a quick drive on it since the latest "patch" I didn't encounter any issues, apart from the HST numbering which we know hasn't been fixed.

 

The very idea that the release schedule somehow managed to outpace the distribution to beta testers is absurd. A successful beta test should be a release gate - which means that the release candidate must actually be in beta testers' hands for some reasonable period of time before the final release can be authorised. This is how you verify that all the planned fixes are actually present and functioning correctly. If that is not the case in the current release process, then something is very wrong with that process.

Remember that, the next time anyone asks "Did they even test this?"

 

This is the point I think some people are missing. None of us expect these patches to be the 'holy grail' and to fix everything. However, signalling issues were the main issue on release, were supposedly sorted in patch 1 (and 2?). But still exist. In exactly the same way. Other additional items are also not fixed that were on patch lists. That leads me to believe that the info in this thread about missing files is in someway correct.

Very confusing.

In any case it's all a moot point because you can't get from A to B on PS5 very often without a crash!!!

 

It's only another 32 miles. it could easily be done. The thing that stops the expansions to current routes is that DTG can't charge for updates to DLCs. Hence why they made SEHS expanded it's own route.

 

... and the other extensions like RSN - RRO (sharing Hagen) or BML - ECW (sharing Brighton) are all standalones.

While merging the routes only, as in TSC, would be easy - merging timetables is not. Requires complete rework. And the timetable is a core feature of TSW.

Also selling two (shorter) routes for € 22 / 24 / 29,99 each instead of one long route for € 35,99 is more profitable, says the Chief Financial Officer

Like it or not, but buying DLC doesn't make us shareholders (some seem to think this). The decision is solely on DTG's end.

 

Easily done? How do you know it's easy? Are you a game dev for dtg? Also have to remake the whole timetable so it's nowhere near easy

 

Easily done for people who know how. They extended the Dresden - Riesa route post release, so they can do it.

My point is they CAN, but because they haven't got a way to charge for it (I'd be happy to pay for the update to extend a route), they WON'T do it.

Remember that when they release a new loco DLC, they have to rework the timetable too, so reworking the timetable isn't an excuse not to do it.

 

They don't need an excuse. It is their game, their business and we are not shareholders with decision making powers. BMW don't make lorries because they simply don't deem it profitable. Mercedes don't make motorcycles. Without needing to excuse And DTG have not promised extensions.

 

That was a branch of track that was probably laid when building the route before they ran out of time and had to cut the route down similar to how SHG have laid track for areas with no scenery yet in case they go back to it I'd imagine as on the MML stream they said that adding more track to a route is a pain in the proverbial

 

Riesa Dresden is nothing compared to 32 miles of everything they have to model.

 

What I can't figure out is why SHG can't at least fix the directionality issues of the AWS magnets in a patch,with TSC is was just the case of a one second link flip, surely in TSW is isn't going to be much more complicated than that? It's very immersion breaking driving on that reversible line out of Leicester with all those extra AWS pings going off.
Of course the crashing issues should be sorted out as a priority, but surely these signalling based problems are easily and quickly remedied?
I haven't even tested the TPWS in the new patch, I just AltF4'd when those pings started going off again. From what I've read, these haven't been sorted either.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Off Topic, accusatory]

 

Is that who I think it is? Wow!

 

I won't say anything more other than I'm doing this research to protect the community, DTG and Skyhook. Maybe people will understand, maybe not.

I love trains, this community and people pushing things forwards, truly working on solutions, like londonmidland and cwf.green for example. And most of all - honesty.

 

I got the DLC refunded, I never doubted you by the way, as certain things do not/have not added up. There is a right to free speech in this forum, so not everyone will agree but the similarities leave little to be desired.

I also feel I have wasted my time in terms of everything I had provided in terms of referencing etc..

 

I just hope (ex-DTG) Adam can turn things around at Skyhook and issues get sorted. We'd all deserve that. Haven't bought MML yet for given reasons. Will buy when the time is right.

 

Gotta wonder why DTG are now collecting the feedback for a route they didn't develop......

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/midland-main-line-issues-feedback-thread.71347/

 

Some very interesting links on the steam discussion forum, not necessarily the post that is above, but if you go to the actual main discussion forum the top post is very interesting.

 

At this point they could be about to take it over themselves bc the whole thing so far has been an absolute LOVEtshow

 

In my opinion, the whole issues with this route have made me wary of the promises given from Skyhook, and made me greatly appreciate the content we get from directly from DTG.

the difference between Midland Mainline and Glossop are so far apart, and while MML may have brought in a new traction with the class 158, it's the actual route that seems to be the issue (with wrong AWS/TPWS and constantly crashing approaching Nottingham, which for me almost always occurs in the Class 43 anyway)

i was genuinely looking forward to MML on release, but it's (and again this is only my opinion) the worst route in the game from a playability perspective.

i feel a lot has been promised from STG with this route but it's not made a strong enough difference, specifically in performance and reliability.

Whereas with DTG directly i feel they are much more open about what they can, and what they can't, achieve with each route and dlc they release.

So i guess positives and negatives from my perspective lately, positive feelings about where DTG is heading especially after Glossop, but very wary of anything STG does going forward and i feel this route may never be free of some of the more serious bugs (at least on PS4/5).. but that's my view on things anyway