I quite like the appeal of them (and have been on them a few times), despite them now showing their age.
Don’t forget greater Anglia class 360. True the greater Anglia class 321 and 360 and 90 are the best trains
They don't need to keep any, in fact due to changing travel patterns since covid they've revealed that they don't need all of the class 720's they've ordered either and may sub lease as many as 20 of them to another operater.
Class 360's are newer then the 321's by 15 years. 321's entered service in 1988. 360's entered service in 2003.
DTG and their partners seem to have been concentrating on the London Midland region with their recent releases and there's rumoured to be another LMR route (Preston to Blackpool) from Just Trains. Perhaps they'll switch to a different part of the country and there will be a couple of nice modern Eastern routes. If they brought us ECML South and GEML or C2C in quick succession I think a lot of simmers will be very happy. The gap in the map around East Anglia gets more noticeable and less understandable with every TSW UK release.
It would be interesting to see which era of the GEML would be most popular, but a poll on this subject seems a little too self-indulgent. Assuming a full-on 1960s Green/Maroon era is out of the question I think the most popular would be; 1 - BR Blue/Grey - Class 47 with EMU classes 302/307/308/309/312/315 - Freight Class 37 and 47 2 - Network South East - Class 86 with EMUs 309/312/315/321 - Freight Class 37 and 47 3 - Greater Anglia early era Class 90 with EMUs 315/321/360, Freight class 66 and 86 4 - Modern Greater Anglia with EMUs 345/720/745, Freight class 66 and 90 Whichever it is, it would need at least 3 new types of traction with the route to be realistic
I would be inclined to go for early-GA just because it's my only memory of the line - and that's not even from real life. It's from TSC! In terms of the practical side of things, having the 315 would, I would imagine, make life a lot easier for DTG. Overall it's very similar to the (well-made and popular in TSW) Class 314. So that's just a bit of modification, rather than a brand new thing. I would argue that the 321 & 360 (for example) are far less complex than the modern stock, from a development POV, and of course the BR/NSE stuff goes further on that. I would love to see a "mainline" British Rail or NSE route, but I think the lessons found from the North of England's entry into TSW (TVL & NTP) is that all eggs shouldn't be in one basket. It took until, well, last week, for the North to get a modern route. Prior to that it had 3 (4 if you count Peak Forest, but if you count that you'd be best counting MML so it's a redundant point) BR Routes, zero private. Although, that was probably down to licensing, to be fair. GEML would probably be the most popular route in the Anglia region (Wherry Lines could rival it, though), so it would make sense to have stock that everyone has at least seen. I'd take GEML in early-modern era and Wherry Lines in BR or Modern era. Sign me up for that, please!
But still they wasted money refurbishing the greater Anglia class 321. They should send the rest of the class 720 over to southeastern and make it third rail to release some of the southeastern class 465 as some of them are getting very old
Unfortunately Southeastern can't take the 720's due to their 24 metre length, certain parts of the Southeastern network can't use trains that are more then 20 metres in length. But saying that though, even the oldest class 465's are still newer then the 321's.
Eversholt had already committed to the refurbishment of the 30 Renatus Class 321s prior to GA winning the new franchise and continued with the hope that another operator would snap them up. Since then electrification projects have been cut and/or scaled back, Covid hit, home working became popular and there's a surplus of newer EMUs that are sitting around in store. Anyway the 720s are so much better from a commuter's point of view. Hindsight and all that.
Would love this route with the class 745's and 720's, since I use them a lot now I have gained a liking for them but wouldn't mind the 321's or 90's either, great suggestion though!
For me the more modern era of 745s and 720s would be best, however, I wouldn't mind the 321s as long as there was one of either the 745s or 720s to enhance it a bit.
Why not just a straight port of the GEML from TSC then the 745s as a DLC? That way everyone wins. If DTG has the ability to quickly bring all the assets into TSW3 easily... then over time the route can be upgraded.
No such thing as porting from TSC to TSW. They can use similar techniques and of course reference materials, but the assets in TSW are different to those used in TSC let alone signalling, trains, timetables...
I literally just said assets in TSC are different to those in TSW... They'd have to remake the routes from scratch including track, stations etc...
I think assets and track layouts can be ported. Brighton was for ECW iirc. That does generally lead to lower quality. The track layout can also be ported but if there's anything wrong with it on TSC then it would stick in TSW, so it would probably prove easier for them to just do it all from scratch.
As I said before (in response to another post by the same person), the base designs can be used but not the made assets. TSW assets are very different from TSC ones, so there's still a lot of work to make TSW assets from those base designs
Darn It would be good though if southeastern could get the same trains as greater Anglia class 720 but make the isles wider. Yh the 465 are newer. Greater Anglia should of kept the class 321 for another 8 years
I disagree, the Renatus units weren't that good, the wi-fi and air con was dodgy, they only had 3 point plugs (no usb), the seats were uncomfortable and the PIS was far too loud. That's just from a commuter's point of view. I'm pleased they only did 30 or we'd probably be stuck with them for years to come. From GA's perspective, it made no financial or operational sense to keep a small fleet of 34 year old units over having a brand new uniform fleet. Also the 321s are considerably more sluggish than the 720s and 745s and the aim was to speed up services (admittedly we're still using 321s timings at the moment while the timetable is rebuilt) I've seen units come and go, the 321s replaced my favourites the 309s but time moves on and improvements in technology and safety renders all trains obsolete eventually. It is a shame so few AC units have been preserved though.
The 321's may have been decent trains but that doesn't deny the fact that they are nearly 40 years old and therefore are pretty much at the end of their lifespan, so keeping them on for another 8 years would not have been a good idea.
Oh Yh they were very dirty and the seat were very old but greater Anglia class 321 was still in good condition as I went on one. Great Anglia should have kept the class 321 for another 8 years but if not then another 5 year to make it 40 years. Greater Anglia class 379 could of replaced some of the greater Anglia class 321 on the east Anglia main line from London Liverpool Street to Colchester, Colchester town and Southend Victoria via Romford
Aside from your obvious liking of the 321s, I'd be interested to know where the 30 units would be deployed bearing mind the Aventras and Stadlers are staying with Greater Anglia. Apart from you saying that you liked them and that they weren't the oldest units on the network, I'd be interested to know what practical benefit would they bring to the railway and where they should be deployed when there are newer, nicer, higher specification units sitting collecting dust in sidings around the UK.
Absolutely would be my preference too as the 315 & 321 would interest me the most & NSE holds a special place for me. For those who wanted a more up to date version, you could still squeeze both classes in given the 321 has not long been withdrawn & a handful of 315’s were still working on the Elizabeth line until the timetable changes
Not only that but an order has been made for new stock for Southeastern that is expected to begin replacing the lovely 465’s sometime around 2026 making any transfer of stock rather redundant even if they could take the extra length
No official order has yet been placed, only an invitation tender for companies who would be interested in building the new fleet, we should get some more info later this year.
Soon enough, there won't be any 'Dusty Bins' left whatsoever what with Scotrail currently in the process of ordering a new fleet to replace their class 320's.
Fair enough, had assumed it was all confirmed and had passed the invitation to tender stage, cheers for letting me know
