Hello all, I often see this line suggested and there's been much speculation that it maybe an upcoming release, so I wanted to make this thread as an in depth discussion on the New Haven line, the various operations, and some unique facts/landmarks along the line. For those who don't know, the New Haven line is a section of the northeast corridor running from New York City, NY east to New Haven, CT. The line is owned and maintained by Metro North, but also hosts several other operators. I'll also be discussing the Amtrak's Hell Gate Line, Metro North's New Canaan Branch, and CSX's Fremont Secondary in this thread as well. It should be noted that to accurately recreate this line would be a huge undertaking requiring almost 100 miles of track, 30+ stations, various different electrification types, and a timetable with 7 different train operating companies. Mainline: The Metro North mainline begins at Grand Central Terminal, sharing tracks with the Hudson and Harlem Lines out of New York City. Between Grand Central and Mount Vernon stations trains run on 750 V DC third rails, using the former New York Central's electrification system. From Mount Vernon to New Haven trains run on the former New Haven railroad's catenary on a 12.5 kV/60Hz overhead line system. The full line is 74 miles featuring 30 stations stops along the way. The line is mostly 4 tracks, and max operating speed is 80mph. There are also several junctions with other lines and branches along the way, including: The Hudson Line, The Harlem Line, The Hell Gate Line, The New Canaan Branch, The Danbury Branch, and The Waterbury Branch (hopefully I have not forgotten any). Some notable landmarks along the line: The elevated section over Park Ave, the massive Park Ave lift bridge (both are featured in the Harlem Line add-on) and the unique Cos Cob lift bridge, this drawbridge is unique as the near vertical lift of the bridge required there to be a break in the catenary. At both ends of the bridge the catenary exceeds the maximum height of the pantograph, and there is no catenary on the bridge itself. The trains glide across the bridge with no power similar to other "dead sections". The pantograph of the train springs up to the maximum height and reconnects with the catenary when the train reaches the other side of the bridge. Passenger Operators: Amtrak: Amtrak is the operator for all long-distance trains in the United States. Currently Amtrak operates 42 total daily trains over this line. Services include: 18 daily Acelas, 22 daily Northeast Regionals, and 2 daily Vermonters. The Acela currently uses Bombardier/Alstom built trainsets, soon to be replaced with Alstom built Avelia Liberty trainsets. The Northeast Regionals, and the Vermonter use the Siemens built ACS-64 for power. New Haven is at the junction for the Northeast Corridor continuing to Boston, and Amtrak's Springfield Line, the Springfield line is diesel only, so for trains that continue to Springfield (Vermonter and several Regionals) a power swap will take place at the station between an ACS-64 and a P42DC (this most likely will not be in the game unless a P42 gets made, just wanted to share this interesting operation) Amtrak's Hell Gate Line: Amtrak trains do not service Grand Central, at New Rochelle NY there's a junction where Amtrak trains continue south onto the 11 mile, 12kV AC/25Hz electric Hell Gate Line, which is used to access Penn Station. The line is named after the massive Hell Gate Bridge over the East River. Some notable landmarks along the line: East River Tunnels, Sunnyside yard, Hell Gate Bridge, and Oak Point Yard. The line is currently undergoing upgrades to allow Metro North trains to service Penn Station in addition to Grand Central, this will include 4 new Metro North commuter stations being built. There is also a junction with the Long Island railroad near Sunnyside Yard. Amtrak will park out of service trains for the New York area in it's Sunnyside Yard. If this line sounds familiar to you, that's because it was featured in the TSW2020 route which was never ported over to TSW2/3. Metro North: Metro North is a commuter railroad for the New York City area, they provide frequent commuter services between Grand Central and New Haven, with some Waterbury and Danbury Branch trains sharing the line to reach Grand Central as well. In total there are 244 total New Haven line services without including New Canaan, Waterbury, and Danbury trains (not all 244 services run the full line, some only run between Stamford and New Haven) Motive Power: The primary motive power for this line is the Kawasaki M8, an EMU capable of running on both third rail and overhead lines. Other Metro North motive that can be seen on the line include the GE P32AC-DM, a dual mode diesel/third rail electric locomotive, these are used on the Waterbury, Danbury, Hudson, and Harlem lines for trains that continue into diesel only territory. The Brookville BL20GH, used for trains that only run between Stamford and either Waterbury or Danbury. The EMD GP35R, used for Metro North work trains. Metro North New Canaan Branch: The New Canaan branch is an 8 mile long branch from Stamford, CT to New Canaan, CT with 4 intermediate stations. The branch is electric and single track, with trains using M8 railcars as power. Addition of this branch would allow for a more relaxed driving experience compared to the busy Northeast Corridor. CT Rail: CT Rail trains operate commuter services for the New Haven area, with lines including the Springfield Line, and Shore Line East services. Post 2020 Shore Line East services run between New London, CT and New Haven, CT, but pre-2020 schedules had trains that ran from Stamford, CT to New London, CT, so I'm leaving this here as an honorable mention. CT Rail motive power includes M8 railcars for electric lines, and EMD GP40-3H, and GE P40DC locomotives for diesel lines. NJ Transit: New Jersey Transit runs frequent commuter services for New York City and throughout the state of New Jersey. NJ Transit trains share trackage with Amtrak in Penn Station, and through the East River Tunnels to access Sunnyside Yard for parking out of service trains. Another honorable mention is NJ Transit's Meadowlands Football Train. This was a partnership between Metro North and NJ Transit until 2016, that ran special trains from New Haven to Secaucus Junction during football games. These trains would use the ALP-46 and Multi-level coaches for power (both are already in the game with New York to Trenton addon) making this an interesting potential layer. Long Island Railroad: LIRR trains use the East River Tunnels to access Penn Stations, these services would have to be AI only as they only share trackage for a short distance. Freight Operators: Although this is primarily a passenger corridor, a few freight trains will run along the line during off peak hours. CSX: CSX is a Class 1 freight railroad operating on the East Coast of the United States. CSX runs several local trains along the line, originating from either Oak Point Yard in Bronx, NY or Cedar Hill Yard in New Haven, CT. These trains include: L016 (New Haven to Bridgeport area local) L017 (Bronx area local) and Y102 (Oak Point yard to Fresh Pond Junction and return). Motive Power for these trains includes: EMD GP38-2, EMD GP40-2, or the EMD SD40-2. These have subtle differences to the ones found on the Sand Patch Grade route, the ones that operate on the Northeast Corridor include cab signals, and higher snow plows to avoid contact with third rails, these NEC variants can be spotted by the yellow strip featured on the snow plow. CSX does not operate road freights on this portion of the NEC, the locals are supplied by road freights from Selkirk, NY to come down via the Hudson, or Springfield lines. CSX Fremont Secondary: This a freight only branch used to access Fresh Pond Junction from Oak Point Yard via the Hell Gate Bridge, this line was featured as part of NYC TSW2020 route. Providence and Worcester: P&W is a regional shortline owned by Genesee and Wyoming corporation. P&W runs several road freights over this lines: CHFP (loaded aggregate, New Haven to Fresh Pond) FPCH (empty aggregate, Fresh Pond to New Haven) and CT-2 (mixed freight, New Haven to Danbury and return). Motive Power for these trains includes: GE C40-8s, GE B39-8Es, and EMD GP38-2s, all of which are also modified with cab signals and higher snow plows. Honorable Freight Mentions: Until 2010 Canadian Pacific operated freight trains between Fresh Pond and Albany, NY via the Fremont Secondary. These do not currently run. New York and Atlantic is the main freight operator for Long Island, their trains can sometimes be seen running over the Fremont Secondary if a CSX crew is unable to make the interchange run. In a perfect world, all operators, branches, and motive power would be included, but since time, budget, or research constraints can often cut projects short, I'll leave a few suggestions as to how this route could be implemented into the game. First option: Mainline from Grand Central to New Haven, with Hell Gate Line, New Canaan Branch, and Fremont Secondary included. Main Motive Power: ACS-64, M8, GP38-2, with layers for MN M7, LIRR M7, NJT, and Acela included. Second option: Mainline from Grand Central to New Haven, with Hell Gate Line included. Main motive power, ACS-64 and M8, with layers for MN M7, LIRR M7, NJT, GP38-2, and Acela. Third option: Mainline from Grand Central but only as far as Stamford, with Hell Gate Line included. Main motive power, ACS-64 and M8, with layers for MN M7, LIRR M7, NJT, GP38-2, and Acela. I would suggest keeping the Hell Gate Line in since it's already been modeled and just needs to be ported, and would provide different driving experiences between the Metro North routes and Amtrak routes. Thank you for viewing these suggestions, let me know if you'd like to see this route or if I've forgotten something in my research.
I feel like this is a case of not IF but WHEN, DTG just needs to figure out when they want to start working on it.
Looks like you are better off remaking the whole thing from train Sim classic into TSW3. M2 & M8 are the Metro-North equivalents to 313/1 387 378 710 377/2 /5 377/7 375/6 OHLE Third Rail commuter trains. Want an older Amtrak locomotive to be downloadable content here bring on the E60. High Speed Train Avelia Liberty if set in 2023-2024 time frame. Long-term plan make it Northeast Corridor New York City New Haven Providence 180 miles. Distance wise 72 NYC New Haven and 108 miles New Haven Providence.
New Haven to Providence sees the least amount of traffic compared to the rest of the NEC, from a timetable perspective it wouldn't make for the most interesting route...
excellent route suggestion. They are speculations about this route which is just that speculation and nothing else. But it would make sense giving the options. I do believe the next US route will include the M8 with the layers coming from M3A, M7A,AC-64,Acela,freight layer.
For what reason exactly about those 108 miles between New Haven and Providence? You get the scenic parts around Niantic Mystic and Stonington Connecticut.
I think the second option would be great but I think Penn station would have to be included since that's where Amtrak service would start from Penn station
Even if so, its still a part of the NEC that we have never seen. Not saying it would make business sense to make it, but it is one of the harder parts of the route to run a train on for me at least.
You are correct however if they want to Port it directly from train simulator classic and remake it for train sin world 3 UE 4.26 you will need both Penn Station and Grand Central terminal. M8 M2 Metro-North Code K AC/DC ACS-64 Avelia Liberty Acela Express NJ Transit Meadowlands game service ALP-46A Code B AC electric. Although the train simulator classic version allows you to run Rahway to New Haven since NJCL merges with NEC NYC New Haven due to the common origin being New York Penn Station. If you want a big Network in the game you might as well merge Northeast Corridor Trenton New Brunswick New York Penn Harlem Line and LIRR with Northeast Corridor New York New Haven basically forming NYC Region Rail Trenton-New Haven & NYC White Plains New Haven. Common origin point NY Penn and Grand Central terminal.
Well said and if you look at the workshop the southern extension is NJCL Rahway to New York Penn Station. Since the game uses common origin system to merge routes the old fashioned way you should be able to go Trenton to New Haven in a single run. Long term planning Trenton to Boston via New Haven Providence and NY Penn. Considering the 108 miles between New Haven and Providence if bridged
As much as I would love you have the entire New Haven line I don’t see this happening given DTG history. LIRR from Hicksville, Harlem line from North White Plains, NEC Boston to providence, NEC New York to Trenton. So with that said ,I have this route in TSC and it takes 2 hours to do a service from New Haven to Penn station. I believe in my opinion if this route is made in TSW3 it will be from Stamford which is about 1 hour from here to Penn station. It would include the NEC tracks from New Rochelle to Penn Station for Amtrak services.
So looking at the current New haven to New York schedule. What I see is all Services originating from New haven except one stop at Stanford. According to the map Stanford is 33 miles from Penn station and takes average of about 1 hour for services. So here's the breakdown of the services: From New Haven(72 miles) 42 Services From Stanford (33 miles from Penn) 101 services which includes the 41 services from New Haven which one doesn't stop here from Harrison (22miles from Penn) 10 services New Rochelle (17 miles from Penn) 3 services Greenwich (28 miles from Penn) 1 service
I hope DTG is listening! It's either GCT & Stamford with New Canaan branch, Bridgeport or New Haven, CT.
Here some pictures from the New Haven Line from TSC, a morning departure from Penn Station to Stanford on the Acela
Lots of speed changes and top speed was 100MPH but it was a short section. Not sure if the current speeds have different today than when this DLC came out
Thought this video might interest a few people here, it showcases the drawbridge in Cos Cob where there's a gap in the catenary, one of the more unique river crossings on the line.
I wonder how would the game treat that because from what I understand you treat it the same as the drawbridge inside Hafen Oldenburg. Which means lower the pantograph and then raise it after the bridge. If you did that incorrectly you are stuck
I'm wondering how much if any Freight services would be available on a New haven line DLC? If so How would they look like as far as destinations and time
I am no expert, but the only freight I am aware of is/was P&W stone trains to Fresh Pond via Oak Point. They only ever ran as-needed and I am not aware of their current status. I strongly doubt these would be represented in any potential TSW route. Of course Oak Point itself could be represented if Amtrak to NYP was also included, which I would normally not expect DTG to do. However, since they have already reused part of old NEC for NYT, I will not say it is impossible...
I can't say for certain as I'm no engineer, but I'm guessing in real life it is treated like a normal dead section, and the Main Circuit Breaker is opened then closed when the reconnection is made. I don't know if this would be programmed in game or not, but the game does recognize if an electric train has a power source or not, so the train may just lose power and coast to the other side, similar to how some junctions on LIRR don't have a 3rd rail and the train coasts until the 3rd rail is present again.
In real life there isn't much freight, and it usually runs at night. The freight trains that run on the line are divided up between the Providence and Worcester railroad and CSX. The following freight trains run on this line: Providence and Worcester CHFP - Loaded stone train, New Haven to Fresh Pond Providence and Worcester FPCH - Empty stone train, Fresh Pond to New Haven Providence and Worcester CT-2 - Mixed freight, New Haven to Danbury and Return CSX L016 - New Haven to Bridgeport Local based in Cedar Hill Yard CSX L017 - Bronx area local based in Oak Point Yard CSX Y102 - Mixed freight, Oak Point Yard to Fresh Pond and return FPCH and CHFP are the only two freight trains that travel the full length of the route, and since DTG normally doesn't create shortline power, they would either have to be omitted, or my suggestion would be substitute the P&W power with CSX power in game. Shortlines sometimes have to lease power so it could be possible to see a CSX locomotive leading the train. There are no Class I road freights that travel on this line anymore, only locals. The last Class I road freight on the line was a Conrail train from Selkirk to New Haven. Today the CSX locals are supplied by road freights that travel from Selkirk down the Hudson line to Oak Point Yard, or travel down the Springfield line to Cedar Hill yard.
Thank you for telling me about that. I can see DTG making them for TSW New Haven Line route by using the TSC versions as base model and then remaking them in UE5 for TSW New Haven Line.
I saw that on the old NEC New York they had freight on it. Maybe is something that they might be working on in cab signaling they had talked about to add some playable freight services on NTY. At the time it was mentioned about this being difficult to add freight services since in-cab signaling was not available. This was never mentioned again. What if cab signaling was added? Would they be able to add CSX Freight at Oak Point Yard, Fresh Pond Jct. and Harlem River Terminal to a New Haven line?
Let me see is this the classic GP40-2 and if it has a working PTC then have it run NEC Trenton to Boston local freights. If I remember correctly in trains sim classic it runs freight services on NEC NYC New Haven
I think there would be freight services for CSX OakPoint yard in the Port Morris section of the Bronx as well as Harlem River Terminal, Hunts Point and even some service along the spurs of the New Haven Main Line. Services can even extend into Queens with the Fresh Pond Yard
Was going to start a new thread on this butremembered this excellent suggestion thread. Everything you mentioned is spot on. I believe this route has the potential to be great if done correctly. Third optioned mentioned here has the best chance being developed. The timetable with AI (3,000+), would be the busiest US DLC and probably second only to BML if all possible layering is added.
I was looking at the old NEC route which I never played or seen until now and I have to tell you, I'm actually impressed of the way the capture the scenery from New Rochelle to Hell's gate bridge. The buildings,the Bronx, Queees, Triborough bridge. It looks great . below is a you tube video of the route.
I would also love to see dtg extend the Hudson line because from there you can do GCT to Poughkeepsie NY and you can add a new Amtrak service from penn station to Albany because at a certain point metro north and Amtrak runs on the same line until Poughkeepsie where Amtrak continues north to Albany
