I would like to open up a discussion on the possibility and potential of bringing older routes up to speed. Does anyone think this would be a good idea? There are some really interesting routes imo that could do with an update for next generation and specifically TSW3. GWE springs to my mind off the top of my head. Does anyone know if there are any plans to do this?
I think they have pretty much said they won't be touching GWE express. Certainly I would like to see some of the older routes getting some upgrades. NTP should be a contender, it could do with a timetable and layer refresh, I would love to see it with the new lighting.
A big wish of mine is for DTG to look back at East Coastway, and add the missing services between Lewes and Eastbourne (the services that go to/from London Victoria and Eastbourne) i do love ecw, but i've always thought the eastern portion of this route (Lewes to Eastbourne) is too empty, which is a shame as it's my favourite part of the route, as it has a lot of faster and less frequent stopping sections.
I really think DTG should consider updating some of the most older, popular routes' timetables to factor in newer loco DLCs etc. The German routes are a great example, as many here are completely missing any high-speed ICE services etc which is frustrating. Then, obviously, you have the likes of London Commuter which needs the 700 and rail tours too etc. They have been so many high-quality TSW routes over the years, some are still superb to this day but ultimately lack a decent timetable which is a shame and I hope DTG can rectify such. Much agreed, plus I'd also like to see the same amount of AI traffic at Brighton in ECW compared with London Commuter.
Routes like BML and BCC, for all they are very good still need some of the scenic gaps addressing. From what I can see, BCC still has issues with missing lineside fencing adjacent to the canal and at one point the canal itself had a huge vertical gap or step between the water splines. BML still has the partly built Reigate and missing track at Redhill. Cajon has the missing distant hill section as does PFR which also has visible gaps in the distant terrain if you look north of Chinley. These are all items which if not going to be addressed by the original route builders (and really why not?) then there needs to be a back up crew, call it what you will, to sort it out.
They really should have a small team dedicated to keeping the older content refreshed and up to date. Would make the whole game much better. The new lighting for TSW 3 definitely needs to be back ported to every route.
Whilst I wholeheartedly agree, the problem, as always, is financial. Would we all be willing to pay for an upgrade? Because it's unlikely to be free. Why would a company who have already sold the original routes, "waste" resources updating them? Are they likely to get many sales of the updated routes? DTG are a business at the end of the day, and need to make profit. I know "Profit" is a dirty word on here, but without it, everything else falls apart. That is not to say DTG are perfect, far from it. But they are a business. And sometimes, people forget that. Would an editor solve many of the issues? I would not be clever enough to use it, but many on here would. Are consoles the primary reason why there is no editor? Is it everyone or no one?
I suspect you are correct. I know I would. But you know what this place is like. Can you imagine the uproar.... Paying twice for the "same" DLC Would this delay new DLC? Because that's where the money comes from. So to avoid delays, a new team, of paid employees, who all need paying....
I’m extremely confident that it would be taken positively by the forum, because an updated and extended GWE is what most people suggest, just go look at the suggestion forum
Updating old routes, encourages new users to purchase older products. It also increases confidence in the company, resulting in more people taking risks on buying products, as they know they will be updated. Plenty of companies do this, look at MSFS for example. Airports get updated with new features, and updates to match new real world changes. Most developers do not charge for this. People are more willing to buy the products, because they know they will be updated and kept modern.
I would willingly pay for extensions that added significant mileage and a new train. e.g. TVL - extend to Boulby and Bishop Auckland and add a Class 56. Oakville - extend to Toronto Union and Niagara Falls, with some passenger equipment. Travel by train to Niagara Falls would be the marketing department dream. Germany - Fix up Rapid Transit so we actually want to buy it and most of the routes would sell again with an extension. Example Hamburg to Lubeck, on to Puttgarden and add the international trains we can drive on and off the train ferry to Rodby. The sad fact is though, DTG have indicated route extensions are difficult and unlikely so most of the above remains a pipedream.
For Germany, I would focus more on networking our current routes, because for Germany DTG have almost built up a complete network, just about merging them
I would buy TSW4 if it ever came with route mergers, it’s been an issue that DTG has struggled with for a while.
It's always going to be difficult to find a satisfactory method of keeping old content updated to a current standards, adding relevant rolling stock from newer releases and, as the game moves forward, simply keeping them accessible (NEC anyone?). It's clear that the promise future sales of improved DLC or increased sales of new DLC as buyers are confident it will be kept up to date no longer provides enough incentive for DTG to significantly update DLC now the preservation crew has been disbanded. I think there is some DLC that it's no longer practical to update / extend and the only option will be to start afresh. I think a key example of this is GWE and really the only way forward would be to give it the Trenton treatment (with a proper timetable from the get go of course!). For the rest I think there are three possible ways to fund improvments to this content. 1) Paid upgrade as a separate DLC. Pros: Only pay if you want it Cons: DLC for DLC rarely makes money, complex to implement on platforms, particularly consoles. 2) Some sort kickstarter style system where improvements are pre-funded before the work is started. Projects would be ordered based on popurarity in the community and only go ahead if they reach a funding goal. Although all owners of the DLC would get the upgrade if funding target is reached, backers could be rewarded in other ways such as discount on future content or unique liveries etc. Pros: Less risk for DGT, Cons: Potentially unfair for those that get it but didn't back it. 3) Use the community. Whist there certaibly seems to be the talent and willingness to develop DLC within the community, the hurdle to jump to become a third party developer seems too high at present. Could this talent be used to fix / extend current content (examples might be adding missing scenary to BML or adding the missing features to SMH). This would then prove their capability to potentially develope full DLC in future. Pros: Less cost involved, community driven. Cons: There would still be a cost to DTG for testing and rolling out the content. There may be a risk of introducing additional bugs and optimising content might be challenging. I asked a question for the roadmap about maximising the value for money of DLC by addining layers such as the 4F into the lackluster SOS timetable and the answer was essentially, we don't backport new content into old DLC (I presume apart from substitutions). The positive news was that going forward they are planning to ensure that as much DLC use was included from design stage rather than it being an afterthought. In order to reduce the need to update DLC with new content in future, minimise development costs and maximise value for money I think DTG need to be much more strategic and get away from releasing DLC the moment it is finished. Imagine how great it would have been if the 4F had been delevolped alongside SOS and included in the timetable as a layer when us was first built. Then when PF was developed there is less work to do as the 4F would already have been built. This would be a win win as any owners of SOS are more likey to buy PF and anyone who enjoys the 4F on PF are more likey to go back and buy SOS. The longevity of TSC relies in it's vast content library and if TSW is going to survive half as long it needs to keep all the DLC as up to date and vibrant as possible.
Thank you for all the positive constructive feedback. It's all good food for thought. I think my original intention has been reflected well in the responses. I was originally thinking along the lines(pardon the pun) of the concept that by updating previous routes it will bring together and help to build a more complete and fulfilling attractive entertaining experience. I mentioned GWE also certainly for me NTP I would love to see updated. I understand that it is a business but by the same token it could be likened to a team only being as strong as it's weakest member, perhaps not the best analogy but I'm trying to get over the idea that in the long run it would work out to benefit all parties if they could adopt a slightly more forward thinking attitude in respect of the business side of things and see the bigger long term picture. I guess this is something that could be looked at potentially.
I'd be happy if they just deleted the 'Welcome to TSW' tutorial on GWE as it's broken and can't be completed which breaks the trophy for completing all training scenarios.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a massive update to the Peninsula Corridor. I know the new electric trains are a while away and with all the new overhead wires along the line but that’s one of my favorite routes in the game since it’s a full and complete route (although since TSW 3 it’s incomplete with issues). A few of the stations like South San Francisco and Hillsdale have been rebuilt since 2019 so at the bare minimum those stations can be redone. As well as the update to the service pattern changes since the pandemic. Increased scenery redesigns and the new lighting system would be appreciated as well. But one can only hope.
