Tsc - Saluda Grade Up Close

{Edit - Incorrect Information - Jamie}

 

To be fair, Cabooses were gone on most railroads with the 1985 PEB awards. I'll echo your views on the adjective heavy self inflating article writing though.

"replicates the procedures and challenges of operating on the historic grade with remarkable authenticity" that's an incredibly bold claim to make when the dynamic brakes snap on and off like a light switch.

 

Well, given the importance of train handling those 13000 unit coal trains, the Road Foreman of Engines was present in the cab handing the engineer the 'Special Saluda key', and perhaps caboose were still in use too. The Locotrol Southern originally used for the mid-train DPU had no EOTD function perhaps? The Southern training video doesn't indicate a remote readout of end of train line pressure.

Anyway, a chance to create something special and more challenging has been missed. We already have more than enough mountain passes in TSC's USA catalog.

 

Not only that, but they used the wrong horn on the locomotives. Majority of the SOU/EX-SOU locomotives have an Old Cast P5/P5

 

and those wretched pure white headlights, while the better developers already use incandescent coloured flare textures and light emitters
if the route is set in NS 1992-1994-ish time frame and caboose already abolished, EOTD's are mandatory. But are these modeled on those stock Kuju cars?

 

...Uh, It should be quite doable with hidden signals and ai blocker engines, it's not universal and would have to be done individually in scenarios but it's quite possible. Or heck, just set up scripted kill switches in the game where if you exceed 7mph over a timing section the game forces you back to the menu. As to the derailments, yeah I get that but what happens when you spad and hit another train, it derails, it's not like derailments aren't already implemented into the game. The timing circuits are one of the few things actually interesting about the route irl, I would expect a dev to either implement them or choose a different route in the initial planning. This all seems especially egregious when the route is being marketed as pro range, at least in theory pro range is supposed to actually mean something.

 

Blah blah blah same complaints different day. Either buy it or don't. Most of us don't care.

 

Same comment, different day. Pot meet kettle.

 

Okay who brought a defect detector here lol

 

Who are you to determine ""most""?

 

I take it you have no counter argument then? If the only counter point you can make is an appeal to the masses perhaps you shouldn't post at all

 

That's weird, that's not what HIS said at all on facebook.

 

{Edit - Getting Personal - Jamie}

 

I suppose the timed switch could be doable with a trigger and reusing Kuju logic for UK diverging solutions (they work on the ECML, GWML, a few don't). I also noticed silly bugs where in free roams the switch turns in front of me upon crossing a signal or merely approaching it, causing very funny moments (fortunately old stock cannot really topple, at least not from crossing 15-30mph crossovers with 125mph - unlike the RS-11 which didn't like the Johnstown-Altoona direction).

What I'm personally worried about is the fun level of completing a 4 mile section at 8 mph. That's 30 minutes.
It's your job, okay. But I'm legit sure I wouldn't run it twice. People already complain about Donner (25) and I only stomach NS Coal District once a year (10 through the town, 15 once more elsewhere).

I remember the short 3% grades on All Aboard routes. They were quite significant, but of course easy short. I can only imagine this one

 

Should we expect lots of derailments also since the chances of improper train handling seem high and it is only a game after all?

The crux of bringing heavy trains safely down such grades is in the cresting speed, which means the walking-trotting pace has to be maintained for much longer than the actual descent down that 4.7%. According to the pr blur, in that particular scenario trains above a certain weight or HP/ton or number of DB axles or Weight per Operative Brake is compulsory stopped in Saluda to let the Road Foreman of Engines enter the cab, as per prototype. This means the train should be balanced to avoid excessive coupler stress and buffeting forces and pogo oscillations up and down the consists which -will- break couplers or even stringline 130 ton cars. Kuju car and coupler physics?
No Locotrol, so no independent DPU operations, the DPU's are directly slaved to the lead engine?

Let's wait for the first independent video reviews.

 

Now that you mention dynamic brakes, in most trains thus far only the leading loco supplies effort (often too much to compensate).
You can set reverser backwards and power up most of the time, to simulate, but only a few will think about that. Plus it's silly.
I didn't read so it's possible that all of the locos supplied will actually output backwards effort, but I am still worried about any other stock.
It can already be a challenge to slow coal trains on Sherman Hill or Canadian Mountain Passes on 1.5% grades.
It might still be a fun route to play with a GP9 and a massive consist of three wagons, though.

I guess this is included in

Is there any workaround?

Personally I can see a simplified brake physics mode which works like German stock, partially releasable, and also overpowering it around 80-90% a bit to allow descending just with that. As far as I know it's mostly the leading loco handling it, though.

 

... of course, if you buy it, you can tinker with the locomotive and car physics, create your own scripts etc etc

But the point of commercial DLC in the 'pro' range and its extra surcharge is the customer should expect high fidelity in the execution of this particular operation. Now, scripting isn't one of DTM's forte, and Mr Rennie's brake scripts only cater to the pneumatic brakes, there is no word in the pr blurb about operational 'extended range' dynamic brakes on all units in the consist and their capacity to sustain 600 Amps of DB current without tripping or roasting the resistor grids.
To get this 13000 tons unit coal train safely down the grade, extra permanent braking effort was achieved by setting the required number of retainers (and more probably when the weather is drab and the rails are wet and slippery) which can perhaps be simulated by setting the handbrake is the car's physics and script cater for this.

Without all the Saluda peculiarities, this DLC is nothing more than a toy train interpretation of one of the most interesting and challenging prototype operation. Rennie brake scripts alone are worthy of the 'Pro Range' badge and price apparently, for the rolling stock is still the basic Kuju stock and DTM's efforts to resemble to prototype SR/NS units still have to be independently evaluated.

Of course the casual player isn't interested in 'walking the train' setting up things on dozens of cars (unlike in Run8, where these features are actually implemented).
Without shortcut keys, taking away valuable spare time (like in some scenarios of TSW's original CSX route), by omitting necessary but tedious tasks is a sensible argument. However, this overly simplification should in all honestly be mentioned in the blurb.
Anyways, discriminating players will point this out in their reviews on here, Steam and elsewhere, perhaps even on RWA.

So evaluate the DLC when it comes out and keep an eye on the refund window so you don't get stuck with it after derailing on your first descent ;-)

 

Yet the P40DC is pro range. Does not give me much hope about the locos in this one, seeing as there also DTM.

 

The old DTG TGV Réseau was also labeled as Pro Range and we all know how that turned out..

 

Well then why don't you cull those people who are just into mindless attacks and/or trashing people who put out content that "they" think doesn't measure up to "their" idea of what is stuff that many/most of us think are acceptable and think if things need to be refined are willing to modify stuff without denigrating creators?

 

Are we not allowed to give constructive criticism without the snark remarks?

I remember you made a remark at me for pointing out a small issue with one of the locomotives on one of Mileposts older routes.

(Yet Milepost fixed that issue cause he actually cares about the quality of his work)

 

Crazy, again, you think you're qualified to define majority and minority.

In the face of fightercommands' well written and justified critique, this sort of drivel is what is allowed? I would like to think that the conversation has been relatively productive with your smarmy comments aside.

It's been illustrated quite a few times that in spite of your canned responses of "change it yourself", "don't buy it" or "make it yourself;" that people would rather like to see the products live up to the articles' painting they write up.

The 'critique crowd' understand that Gary is just a salesman when he fills out his articles with half truths. The fact HIS consistently writes checks that don't cash in the realism department, then now getting endorsed by DTG as "Pro Range" while exhibiting only one pro-range feature (Mike's Air Brakes) is what I, myself am upset with.

What HIS and DTG are now telling me that putting Mikes excellent brakes onto slot car physics having, devoid of texturing and modeling excellence lacking content is equivalent to the things that BMG, Smokebox, vR, ourselves, and VRC, have spent far more time and care on developing, have a greater attention to operational detail or visual quality and so forth.

 

Quite funny given everyone other than you actually posts more than just insults.

Anyways ignoring the children on the forum, I remain very confused why this DLC is labeled as pro range, yes it has Smokebox's brake system, but a good number of DLC over the past decade have included said brakes without being catagorized as pro range. My understanding prior to the p40 debaucle was that a pro range dlc could generally be expected to include a more in depth level of simulation and polish than is expected for a normal TS1 release, stuff like the smokebox, searchlight or ap releases. But now a route without it's one irl gimmick (the timing circuits) and with basic locomotives lacking in advanced engine or dynamic brake simulation (even aside from the sounds and visuals) is pro range? It kinda throws the whole pro range concept in question.

For the sake of not double posting:
I also just really question the route choice as whole, this is very much just a personal preference thing (to head off certain forum members that'll take issue,) but a grade that takes the better part of an hour to cross is not a fun replayable experience, obviously Saluda is infamous irl, but that doesn't necessarily translate to enjoyable in the simulator, especcially when the timing circuits are removed and we have very little quality rolling stock (the VRC C39 is really the only one that fits) appropriate for the route. Even if the rest of the route is more enjoyable higher speed running, any train crossing the route is going to have to surmount Saluda, which given both its issues as a grade and the in sim limitations of the timing circuits and rolling stock makes me very uninterested in the route. I'm not HIS, and they can and will make what they want regardless of my decision whether or not to purchase, but the route feels like a real one trick pony, and not a fun one at that.

 

Good lord, man, can't you just take any sort of criticism whatsoever? Every time someone has a legitimate issue, or irk with your content, its always "these people are attacking me and my content!!!" every. single. time. I'm seriously at my limit of seeing your brainless rant postings here and elsewhere about the same old completely flat out untrue garbage. Learn to take some criticism and grow a pair for gods sake...

 

The only thing we can hope for now is the route being good. The rolling stock, to put it nicely, is not worth the trouble. It would be a totally different topic to discuss its inaccuracies, but I do not believe it is worth the time anyway, after how I've seen constructive criticism being passed down as insulting, and/or a mindless attack.

I truly hope that someone will do an in-depth review that isn't a developer or contributor, specifically to avoid sugarcoating and censorship of unacceptable bugs or bad qualities.

If the route is good and has small detail and care put into it, I would be totally happy with purchasing it on sale. The use of assets so far, such as foliage are disappointing, hence them being from the Railworks/Kuju age. They are simply not acceptable for a piece of $40 DLC.

As stated before, the "Pro Range" title does not apply to this DLC. To be honest, there are plenty of mods and DLC that have better physics, textures, models, and the whole nine yards out there than this. We have not seen it in its detail yet, but from the snippets we were provided, it seems unacceptable compared to some freeware third party routes and rolling stock we have.

From what we have seen, this is another bust by DTM and HIS.

 

Crazy you making such a fuss about it. If its such a big problem with the way he is saying it, Please by all means conduct a survey to prove him wrong. I would be interested in seeing the results. otherwise what makes you qualified to state that he is wrong?

 

Where does this relate to the topic?

 

I was responding to anothers Post. Thus relevant to the Topic at the time

 

I would like to ask all these clairvoyants (critiquing something that no-one has had the opportunity to buy yet and without any compulsion so to do, let alone actually trying it) what are this week's Lotto numbers?

 

I turn over my king. I'm done here. Have fun all.