Dovetail Direct Live Stream Reaction

Didn’t watch the stream but from glancing at the comments I know I’ll be buying the Austrian route (hopefully it’s a Railjet) and the Vectron and probably the ECML dlc too as I’ve just discovered the British routes (London Commuter, SEHS).

A bit surprised at all the sour grumbling in this thread. Everyone here knows how DTG operate and what kind of releases to expect from them. Either make the best of what they do offer or don’t buy the product. That’s the only choice you have. (And stop telling yourself that they will listen to feedback and respond to their critics here…they won’t).

 

Well I would say "I am not one of those people", but then you would accuse me of keeping to telling you I'm not buying the game for the 8th time now.

 

Ok free roam is a non brainer (I'm hyped)

 

It’s not all feedback. People are complaining that they’re releasing TSW4 and it’s not a free update. That is not constructive feedback.

 

New Free Roam mode where we can just spawn in trains and set paths is actually a very, very nice addition.

 

The people who say they are not buying it, is tsw4 any of their business then? Asking because I'm confused.

 

Oh look, they made God Mode an official feature...

 

Yeah, the obsoletely buggy mess.

 

Just my two pennies worth- Im pretty relaxed about all this so will pass on it and wait until there's a route that appeals and its on sale. The stuff thats actually valuable to me in TSW4 is not routes or locos but the core improvements which aren't that amazing anyway, certainly not worth buying a load of content I dont want. This linking of content with features is an odd way to exclude mediocre interest level consumers but there you go. For others it'll be amazing and thats great, I certainly dont want to rain on their parade, just express a little resignation and disappointment. Looks like I might actually have to try out simrail or stick with my beloved East Coastway on TSW3

 

"PC player forgetting not everyone have a computer and not everyone can download mods with ease"

 

Some people need to Google "Stockholm Syndrome".

TSW has effectively moved to a FIFA style annual subscription model. And the bugs remain. I'm out.

 

It is feedback though. As I have said, normal game devs would call this a free patch. A QoL update and nothing more. These are features that were promised for TSW and TSW2, not justifying a new re-release and a paywall to future DLCs.

 

My thoughts:

- New routes, happy with them, especially the IET which I've always wanted. I have had my fill of the stop and go commuter UK routes so happy to have what looks like a "real" intercity route. I am not from the UK so not sure if it is the best choice for a setting but what I see so far I like. For the US route I tend to be more interested in the north east part of the country than the southwest, but I do like the new train and it seems like a non traditional US route. The Austrian route I think will be great and I like the Talent 1. All the updates to the core game and features look positive. I am hoping that performance doesn't take a hit and that the bugs aren't bad.

- Not entirely sure if this needed to be an entire "new" game, so soon after TSW3, before TSW3 works fully. Basically this is the same story as TSW2 > TSW3. Yes there are improvements but it feels like they keep wanting us to buy the same game again before the last one we bought is even fixed. That said, pricing wise, if these routes were released as full priced TSW3 routes, the cost would probably not be that much less than buying them with the "new" game. Depending on bundles it might actually be cheaper (assuming you wanted any of the new routes in the first place). This is still a weird choice from DTG because every time they do this a certain % of the install base of the last game are going to refuse to upgrade and demand ongoing support for the version of the game they bought less than a year ago (which isn't unreasonable) and now DTG is either pissing them off or dividing their resources supporting multiple forks of the same basic game.

- The stream was pretty professional and well made.

 

At least now its no longer consider cheating for the screenshot contest.

 

EDITOR?

 

Three routes and free core update = £39.99
TSW3 with three routes = £39.99 (at time of writing, cost of TSW4 has not been announced).

The only problem I have is that future routes will require TSW4 so you will need to buy the update to run them.

 

Why do you feel the need to repeatedly tell people that you’re not buying future editions of the game? Just curious. Also, have you told your psychiatrist about this strange compulsion? (I’m kidding I’m kidding.)

 

Who are these ‘normal’ developers?

 

Wow the editor is finally getting released... Only interesting thing to be honest

 

Editor........ steady boys, steady.. wait for the details

 

I'll believe it when I see it actually released.

 

Fifa Train 23

 

Like the guys who made TSC before TSW.

Just look at how many features TSC have. Then look at how many of these features are just getting added to TSW with TSW4.
Then look at how many releases TSC have, and compare it to TSW...

You are getting a single game split into 4 releases. Then 5 releases next year. Then 6... So on.

 

Feedback is good. I already posted a lot of feedback. Don't know if they listened to my feedback but I do have the feeling that feedback is not ignored. I ran out of champagne. I'm popping a bottle for every feature that was addressed

 

Nice to see Editor coming back for PC, I play on Xbox so I will probably have to see in the future if it will have any affect for me of course, but I guess that’s good news for PC

 

And further regarding the editor, why should I as a developer invest time into developing something for a game that will be obsolete in a years' time?

 

Because now you can finally fix the bugs that they don't bother to! Ain't that awesome?

 

What about the immersion? What about more realistic passenger behaviour? What about better shadows and less pop in. What about better quality scenery rather than copy and pasted assets, flat roads and cars that cant corner properly?

 

This is great but I've gone all in on PlayStation as I could never get a laptop good enough to play TSW

 

I hope we can use the editor to fix the not-working DC pickup shoes on the 377/387s. It's so annoying.

 

I dont think these are ever going to be a thing tbh. Sad but I see zero evidence that there's any intent to look at this stuff.

 

Yeah if this is becoming a yearly thing like Fifa, I'm out.

The East Coast Main Line route is disappointing, such an odd choice in the grand scheme of things and no 91s either Scotty is cool though.

I guess this is cool for brand new players but I'll stick with 3

 

Don't forget the 377 rear doors being open on service spawn lol

 

Yay! Get us all excited. An editor at last.
2 seconds later…. two thirds of your user base disappointed.

JD - “If you thought that that was all TSW4 had to offer, you are wrong”
Console users - “No JD, we were right”

 

I don't know about TSW4 yet, obviously, but both TSW2 and TSW3 are Play Anywhere titles on Xbox, which means you get them for both console and PC with one purchase. If this holds true for TSW4 the editor is not entirely out of reach for many of us.

 

ashame it’s not king’s cross to peterborough, but it’s part of the ecml nonetheless. some of the features are undeniably going to be a game changer

 

Hopefully the editor can be ported to consoles before much great content is made or we'll be left with our faces pressed against the glass

 

I have got a PC (well not one for games) and I haven’t got a particular want to get hold of one.

though good to know and keep in mind should that change

 

Maybe it's time for cross-platform licences? There can't be much value in charging people for the same DLC across devices

 

If I want to pay for it I will. If I don’t I won’t. It’s very simple.

 

Ah finally I can also post something negative

A PC editor? I did not ask for a PC Editor. Why add that if I did not ask that? (sarcasm)

 

Finally the JT route time! Ormskirk - Preston - Blackpool. Definitely a route I've been looking forward to since all the hints appeared.

 

Editor was never going to happen on console.

Obviously I’m speculating, but I think the most consoles will ever get is access to editor creations.

On a side note, did anyone catch if free roam will include the AI timetable on the route you select? My creative ambition for TSW has only ever been to plonk whatever train I want, on whatever route I want, into the existing timetable.

 

Gotta give DTG credit for finally releasing an editor. Curious to see what people will do with it and whether we're going to see more third party developers.

 

Editor only available on Epic? I'm confused... This has been a mess.

 

I'm not sure how I should put this - I don't want to rant (I'm a little self-conscious about this probably being the longest post so far in the thread...), but I don't want to make my unhappiness seem like idle griping, nor be unfair towards the people who work hard on this game.

I know there are great, enthusiastic devs working on this. Devs who love trains, love sims, and for all I know love worlds. And the content here is good! I would've chosen some different things, I still think neglecting four entire continents does the game a disservice, but ECML is iconic (and I have a sliver of hope deep in my heart for a Deltic...), Scotsman is fun, the American route seems interesting, the Teutonic stuff isn't really my thing but I'm sure some people will love it. It just seems like there's even less justification for a new release than the last two times. Like they've been trying to ease us into some FIFA-type release cycle nonsense and here we are. All those fixes and optimisations we were promised the last two times haven't come (draw distances? stutters even on top-end systems?), and we're to pay for the promise of perhaps seeing them in the future, or be locked out of buying future DLC, with even more money. There's no foundational change to the game itself, just some nice DLCs and a few QOL features that have been discussed since three games ago. Again, I know the people doing the actual work here are great, and sincerely enthusiastic about their work. But whoever's making the business decisions seems determined to eradicate goodwill in the playerbase by underwhelming and overcharging. TSW2 I could muster some excitement for. TSW3 I could persuade myself to see some point in. At this point I can't help but feel a little insulted.

TSW offers things that competitors don't - a greater degree of polish than Classic with a diversity of real life routes not offered by the likes of SimRail and Derail Valley. With those impressive recent offerings (Derail Valley is a somewhat different experience, but a truly stellar game at this point that receives constant fixes and sees major issues addressed within weeks, not years - I rather suspect with a smaller team! While SimRail needs work but looks great and is so delightfully granular...), I'd like to imagine Dovetail management would be driven to step up their own game, as it were, but it feels more like they're determined to run a perfectly good sim into obscurity.

The editor has the potential to be the most exciting aspect of the new game, if there's enough flexibility and enough interest among modders, but... it was announced for the game before the game before the last one.

And with regard to the argument that anyone bothered by this is somehow after something for nothing: This new release will probably cost about 50 quid. 50-60 bucks. That's two DLCs. They could charge substantially more for the actual content here, but the charge isn't for content. It's certainly not for features - the substantial additions in that department are things which have been muttered and shrugged about since three releases ago. The charge is for the continued access to the TSW ecosystem for the ability to buy more content.

 

That'll do me - if they could provide cross platform licenses we could edit on PC and play on consoles

 

And now they've stepped right into it...

Thanks, console users, for subsidizing our game all these years, now have fun enjoying TSW-lite.

 

Wait, what?