Enough Is Enough!!!

After all there was some reason why Sam left

 

And vice-versa. General Motors, Gibson Guitar, Winchester firearms are just a few of the many companies who let the marketeers and cost-cutters run things over the objections of the engineers and creatives- all the way to bankruptcy.

The typical MBA thinks you should produce a widget as cheaply as humanly possible and rely on marketing to cover up its deficiencies- but the buying public are not actually that dumb.

 

Depends doesn't it? I'm no hardcore rail fanatic so a random route in Austria or a bit of the ECML or whatever Antelope is supposed to be means absolutely nothing to me!

I actually find it quite fascinating that folk know so much about these places despite appearing to not live closeby, but thats just me

 

ECML isn't bad but its not as good as it could be,
even though the section isn't the best part of the mainline there is still alot to do, firstly they ended it at doncaster rather than extending the route to york which is a much larger station which would make more sense to end at, and its also where the section ended in tsc. secondly they missed out on important trains, they only included the electric version of the azuma's rather than the hybrid, meaning that unless the timetable is going to be unrealistic it will end up being more empty than it should with services to places like Lincoln not being included. thirdly they also missed out on adding more classic trains such as the HST which still ran on this line in 2019 with one train (Intercity 225/class 91) still running on services to york today.
they could of also chosen ECML south which would of given alot more variety with the unique services, such as thameslink services which run both fast and semi-fast to cambridge or peterborough, you would have great northern services to ely or kings lynn using the 387 with the 717 running metro, LNER also run but dont stop as much (usually only stopping at peterborough with some having an extra stop in stevenage)

 

I have never bought a route based on knowledge. For me it's just a train and some landscape and hope the landscape is not boring. If the train looks cool or familiar I'm ok with it. I don't know any of the routes in TSW4 except for Dresden (one of my favourite but to the lack of modernisation almost forgotten route) The trains look like the ones from the routes I like. It will still be a total surprise to me of what the route will be. The only route I have a bit doubts about is Antelope but Matt promised it would not be like a freight experience so will see if I'm gonna cry about broken promises on day one

 

Sounds like the perks of not having a route based in the country you live. I can imagine me being upset about a wrong part of the route in my country

 

Is it just me who, on reading the title of this thread, has now had the lyrics:

'enough is enough, is enough, i can't go on i can't go on no more, no...'

stuck in their head all day?

 

not really the wrong part if done right, like i said there was the missed opportunity to go to york and include extra trains which would make it alot better and realistic, though it seems like most routes now are incomplete

 

Wasn't that due to his wife passing away?

 

Aw, dammit, thanks for that.

 

haha sorry, it's been in my head all day now!

 

If so, there was considerable time lag.

 

Maybe, but that's why I genuinely thought he left. I miss him on the streams sometimes. Although JD has filled the slot nicely

 

You’re a better man than I am … I couldn’t do more than one train simulator

 

NP, luckily I like Donna Summer. In fact, I have a greatest hits CD that I can use to flush out the earworm.

 

Well, incompetent businesspeople who don't actually pay attention to the rules are a different story.

 

Remember when Lampert decided Sears should compete with itself, with every division encouraged to undermine the financial success of the others?

We're seeing the blinkered approach of short sighted money men in the WB Discovery merger in things like how all Warner's shows were pulled from HBO Max to "save money on licensing costs" for them entirely on paper, when all those fees really meant was taking money out of the parent company's left pocket to put it in the right. Thus leading to hundreds of thousands of cancelled subscriptions, and far less revenue.

 

I’ve had Orange Juice Rip It Up
and Start Again going through my head

 

That's a really ignorant way of labelling people who have a different opinion to you. I am in that group and our views aren't unfounded. DTG brought out free core updates/patches and route packs for TS Classic and that seemed like a really great way of doing it.

Don't kid yourself that TSW4 is a new game. It's still effectively TSW3 (or 2) but now with future DLC paywalled behind a game that has simply been relabelled. There's a lot of people who see this, again including, and we are quite rightly being vocal about it.

 

I play it. :/ I really don't know why you have a major issue with TSC or anyone that has an issue with DTG and the TSW game! Are you a company man? or a troll? you have literally been on every post against TSW4 banging the drum? Waving the DTG flag. All folk are bothered about, is having bugs fixed that was promised in TSW 2 & 3. nothing unreasonable!!!!! You cant get this, that is quite clear!!!!!

 

And the pattern will continue full circle, you and the others will make this the hill your willing to die on, and as the game moves on and people enjoy everything it will be offering, you and others will probably slowly drive themselves to insanity because you refuse to accept the way modern capitalism works, seen it multiple times in these forums now........

 

Modern capitalism = building brand loyalty by lying to your customers?
Never read that in a business text before.

 

I think you mean "TS2Prototype"

 

There is nothing about that you have to accept, and nor does anyone else. We all have a wallet and we all have a vote. Use them wisely.

 

I want TSW4 for the Just Trains route,. But I feel like a "Lady of the night" I'm not kidding.

 

Anyone is slightly mad or just plain stupid to believe anything any company says, that's why I will always run on the if I want it I buy it policy, and never the get sucked in by the marketing stuff, never have fully believed anything and just enjoy what is there in this game and all others I own, my rule has never failed me yet.......

 

[

I've just had a peek in the XBox store and there are no starter packs available for any 3rd party route so it looks like that offer is exclusive to DTG stuff only. I personally can't see that changing in TSW4 because there's no way on god's earth they're going to start allowing 3rd parties to give the core game away for free. So yeah, if you want to go on a jolly jaunt to Blackpool you ARE going to be paying £60 for the privilege to do so.

 

First of all I already said that ts-classics provided the core updates for free and buying the routes was always optional, you never had to buy the next ts-classic to continue to use your library or buy future ts-classic content. and 2nd no you do not get free DLC, but you do get fixes, new features, and engine upgrades. they also have gone back and reworked and fixed old parts of both dlc and base game content. and i don't know how you can argue that dovetail maps are extremely realistic, i live in Massachusetts and i could probably make a giant list of inconsistencies with the Boston to Providence route vs the real thing, i could even say that most ts-classic vs tsw routes are more realistic in ts classic. i don't think you understood my post of trying to say that if you own either ts-classic or ats/ets you do not have to keep buying Game Title # to continue to buy future content or get new features. the routes should just be normal dlc like in the past with rush hour and all the core features should be normal core updates like in the past. (also just noticed some other people echo similar things so sorry for adding more to the thread)

 

Despite the controversy of this game, I'm still gonna buy it, because deluxe edition is a really good deal, 3 new routes 1 reworked route (although I already own DRA) and 2 new locos for 42 quid is a bargain in my eyes, a third of what it would have costed if you bought it separately, you also get 5 day early access, which is also a bonus

 

Is this not a subscription service now? This now yearly paid upgrade cycle means there is zero guarantee that DLC’s will be patched past the first year. The base game is now a 12 month license for DLC support.

 

TS classic over TSW any day. TS classic will also outlive TSW is my opinion. Especially if the TSW player base is going to decline further

 

Are you saying it's unreasonable that we want basic quality of life upgrades to be free instead of being forced to shell out £40 for them? Do you see no problem with DTG making a few updates and adding some routes and calling it a new game? That is laughably stupid. Any other game developer would be publicly slaughtered for this, but because DTG have essentially a monopoly over this genre they get away with it.

 

Because we are being FORCED to pay up even if we don't want the new routes; support will immediately stop for TSW3 so it won't get any more updates - we are being held to ransom every year. It's basically a subscription service now. Filthy.

 

Except updates will completely stop for TSW3. So it will remain buggy and unfixed for eternity, no more updates. Dovetail is forcing its players to buy the "nEw GaMe" every year. A complete joke.

 

This logic "Don't buy and DTG will change" is not working in these bundles. Three routes for the price of about one means, if only one route interests you the slightest, you buy. But DTG will not know if you really enjoy the route.
And even if they see that some routes are played, that does not mean you enjoy it. I've tested Linke Rheinstrecke last week, I played every scenario, all of them are trash. I've played some services with every train available, and I did not like it. But what DTG sees is, that I played a lot on this route, so it must be good right? No it is not.

So giving feedback here on the forum might be the only way to express discomfort.

 

I think there are some great points here, and after some reflection I absolutely have to agree that it would make sense that DTG bump up everyone who is still on a "legacy" version of TSW to TSW4, similarly to TSC. I am happy to buy the Deluxe package because I think it's good value for the routes etc, but having everyone on the same core version makes sense for customers ( to avoid game version confusion) and also total business sense for DTG, because the need to support legacy versions will vanish. Okay there will be always be some holdouts who may prefer older versions for x or y reason, but that's their choice and they can always upgrade for free to the current version. At the very least it avoids this sort of customer backlash and the company being seen in a negative light and accused of corporate avarice.

However, despite the great work we see that is being done with TSW4 to address the biggest player gripes and moving the franchise forward, DTG still need to keep on top of the major bugs and issues that plague some older (and not so older) content.

 

what support do they do

 

Cool, you can do beta testing 5 days before the other beta testers.

But really though, do you really want early access on a game that only recieves patches months after release?

 

You would think that after the messes of some other games this year, people wouldn't pre order. Time flies anyways so why the need to play the game earlier when you can wait? That I'll never understand.

It's not the 90s and 2000s anymore where there were actually reasons to pre order a video game. Those days are long gone

 

JD is great, I do agree, and I do hope to see him stay for a long time, but I do still miss Sam at the same time, and this was a moment we needed Sam instead of JD.

My idea of JD is about as follow:
JD has a boyish charm and he's, let's say lovingly "charmingly inept" when it comes to trains.
The result of this though is that because he doesn't necessarily innately understand most things as a trainfan or programmer, he often asks good questions when someone like Matt gets ahead of himself ands gets more in-depth than he needs to and starts rambling.
JD is the casual player's counterbalance to Matt and that's a good thing.

Sam however is far harsher, while still retaining a good sense of humor, and is not affraid whatsoever to roll his eyes at the company and give them the tough love treatment when they need it.
Sam will defend Matt and DTG when appropriate, but he will definitely stick up for the community against DTG when appropriate as well, and not blindly go along with a marketing scheme.

Not saying that Sam would've somehow prevented this course of action in any way, but I have a strong feeling that with Sam, the whole announcement of TSW4 would've been a lot more apologetic instead of apologist, and he would've at least been a voice for the people feeling betrayed by this course of action.

 

But aren't they all just more or less playing characters on these shows, always sticking to the 'company line' when it comes to it, never crossing it? It's all just marketing.

 

I'm not too sure about that.
In terms of how well the devs respond, support and custom content, agree 100%
However, TSW, or at least its format it uses, is genuinely everything I missed from TSC.
In TSW, it's truly 1st person perspective, whereas in TSC it's more 2nd person perspective, or maybe 1,5th person perspective?
You're not really the person, you're the train, and you can use the cabcam to be on your seat, but you can't really walk around, because again, you're not really a person/the driver, you're the train.

No way for TSC for somehow get that right.
When TSW originally came out though, I was hoping it would be more like TSC, but just with the new 1st person format.

 

Well, that is kinda what I was referring to.
JD is great during during preview streams because he asks the casual player's questions, and gives a casual perspective. And he has a friendly and helpful demeanor. I haven't checked in for a while, but I like his pubquiz rounds too.

However, what he lacks what Sam doesn't is that JD wouldn't really buck against the narrative like Sam would.
Sam wouldn't have be able to change anything, obviously, but he would've held DTG's feet to the fire to at least answer for it is what I mean.

 

20 % discount. I'm on Xbox, so that's the only discount I'll ever get.

I'm thinking more towards how most people here buy the deluxe or special edition? I would expect long term TSW players, who are active here on forum, already own all the included routes.

I got me the standard edition, because why not? With the 20% pre-order discount it costs as much one regular route with no discount (again: I'm on Xbox) and I own all the routes in the other editions (except the Linke Rammsteinstrecke I couldn't be bothered with). I don't do steam and the Vectron will be available for separate purchase for the same price as is now the difference between standard and deluxe, should I choose to buy it... Which I won't anyway.

 

People are eager to see what this editor is about, I guess... more "do it yourself" and less crying and complaining on the forums. Like in TS Classic.

 

There's always TSC.

 

God no. TSC massively shows it's age in just about every regard. It's extremely dated. The one and only advantage TSC has over TSW is the ammount of content, both official and community made, due to it being so old. That's literally it. It's worse in every other way. Graphics, Gameplay are both vastly superior in TSW.
Not to mention the price. AP packs are pretty much requirements to actually enjoy TSC these days.

 

Only if a) you exclusively run modern British content and b) you have very high quality standards.

 

Might as well play the Roblox versions of the trains if you're using some of the default TSC trains for UK routes. Barely anything works in them.
I can't comment on what US and German stuff is like in TSC, as I only branched out to those in TSW.

 

It all comes down to whether you as an individual feel that you get enough enjoyment out of TSW to "upgrade".

Personally I do feel they should offer the core as a free upgrade, why they haven't I know not, but they must feel they have a legitimate reason whether we agree with that or not.

If you feel morally bound not to buy the new version then that is what you should do. I don't think anyone on either side of the argument should be criticised for the decision they make and there has been plenty of that over the last few days. How we as individuals spend our money is no concern to anyone else. What I can't understand though, is the mawkish way that some who clearly don't have TSW or surely don't use it anymore hang around the negative threads. If I was that fed up with TSW I would not want to wallow in misery around it, life is too short. I suspect many of the angry posters will end up purchasing it anyway.

I enjoy TSW, after music, train simming is my main hobby when I am at home, for me it is worth spending the money on it, I like the variety of routes and it is clear there is a lot more to come, the new routes in this new version are all different enough for me. So for me it is worth spending the money even if I don't agree with some of the decisions in the way DTG have implemented the new version, which I don't.

Yes there are bugs, but most of them aren't game breaking and those that are are generally fixed. I get as frustrated at many, AI steam sounds for one. My main irk with DTG is the fact that certain routes with potential, like SOS seem to have get forgotten and those routes become less immersive.