PC (poll) The 15 Routes Of The November Survey- Discussion, I Guess

Back in... November, apparently... DTG put out a short survey about TSW. It asked a bunch of questions about what people would like to see in the game, how they play it, etc. the last question was particularly interesting to me, though:



Hm. Ok. I'm gonna go through what I think these routes would contain to try to get a better idea of what we're talking about here and what DTG has in mind for the future of TSW, if you don't mind. Keep in mind that all of the following is pure opinion or speculation. Get ready to scroll, I didn't expect this post to become so... long.

(NOTE: All pictures copyright their respective owners. I kinda forgot to directly cite the author, so just go to Wikimedia Commons and search around unless the image has a giant black bar at the bottom with an author and a website address)

Brighton Main Line (UK)
Alright. This guy has already been suggested multiple times on the forum. This mainly commuter route stretches from London to Brighton, which makes it about 51 miles / 81 km long. Plenty of fast-paced, modern British EMU action. I feel it would just come with southern locos because DTG seems to like having only one brand represented for similar services in routes.
Length: 51 mi / 81 km
Rolling stock: Southern Class 377, Southern Class 455 (maybe), EWS/DB Class 66 + freight stock
Loco DLC: Thameslink Class 700, Some Gatwick Express Thing (TM)


Köln - Aachen High Speed Line (Germany)
This is the first high speed line in this list, which will become a bit of a theme in some of the other routes here. This route doesn't just have ICE services, though, for those interested: it also has RegioExpress services, freight, the whole deal. Obviously if you're going to do a route specifically called "high speed," you're going to have to include high speed stuff, so I'm sure you'd also get an ICE.
Length: 70 km / 43 mi
Rolling Stock: DB ICE 3, DB Talent 2, DB Class 185 + Freight Stock
Loco DLC: DB Class 120, DB / MRCE Class 193, (DB Class 146 from MSB), (Railion Class 185 MSB), DB Class 294 (also drivable on MSB and RSN), Class 101 + Driving Trailer (also drivable on MSB)


Tehachapi Pass (USA)
Ah, yes, as a North American TSW player, this is interesting. This is also where routes start to get interesting in terms of length- this is the first of quite a few of these routes that are quite a bit... long. Sure, they could cut it short on both ends of the pertinent mountain pass here, but that's not really easily done- you can't just end the route randomly, services have to have a place to stop. So, assuming this route goes all the way from Bakersfield to Mojave, it is 68.7 miles / 110 km long! This is a nice mountain pass route with only freight, best known for a cool loop thing somewhere in the middle. In real life both BNSF and UP operate over this route, but I would only expect UP.
Length: 68.7 mi / 110 km
Rolling Stock: UP AC4400CW, UP SD70M or AH or ES44AC + Freight Stock
Loco DLC: (GP40-2, with extra UP livery)


Tyne Valley Line: Newcastle - Carlisle (UK)
Cool, I don't have to do this one! This is clearly taken from cosmo's excellent proposal, just read that!

Also, long-ish.


Kansas City - Topeka (USA)
This is an interesting choice. It isn't a particularly hilly route nor does it have any passenger traffic. Just some nice, flat freight action. Huh. Also TSxx length, looks like they are trying to get to that eventually. There are 2 mains between these 2 cities, I'm assuming they're choosing the UP route instead of the BNSF one with Amtrak.
Length: 68.9 mi / 111 km
Rolling Stock: AC4400CW or SD70something or ES44AC, GP38-2 + Freight Stock, esp. Covered Hoppers
Loco DLC: (GP40-2, with extra UP livery)


Great Eastern Main Line: London - Norwich (UK)
Well, this one is tricky. Setting it in the "modern era" varies quite a bit depending when East Anglia's new trains are delivered and when this route would be developed. Given that the developers are clearly fond of more classic British traction combined with more available resources, I would expect this route to take place before the fleet upgrade, with a focus on high speed operations since the route goes all the way out to Norwich, which means it might have to cut out Crossrail as it only operates along a short portion of the route.

... wait.

All the way to NORWICH?!
THAT'S 114 MILES / 183 KM!
WHAT?!
Right... on to the summary, I guess. Yeah, no, it very clearly says "London - Norwich"...
Length: 114 mi / 183 km (!!!)
Rolling Stock: Greater Anglia / Freightliner Class 90, Greater Anglia DVT, Greater Anglia Class 321 or 360 + Mk3 Coaches, Freight Stock
Loco DLC: Crossrail Class 345, Grater Anglia Class 317, Freightliner Class 87, (DB/EWS Class 66 from GWE driveable on route)


Nuremburg S-Bahn (Germany)
At first this sounds like a nice ol' RT repeat, and in some ways it looks like it, so if you wanted an S-bahn route that actually isn't completely broken then this is a promising proposal (or they could, y'know, fix RT...). even the rolling stock is he same here, with a nice red version of the Talent 2 running these lines. In addition to being a fast-paced commuter action style route, it's aloso a nice network-style thing instead of just a line. I would assume they're only talking about part of the system, and not the whole 247 km / 153.48 miles, but, if you scroll down a bit... that's not that unrealistic.
Length: possibly 247 km / 153.48 mi
Rolling Stock: DB Talent 2
Loco DLC: Possibly an Alstom Coradia eventually


Northeast Corridor: Boston - New Haven (USA)
This is another section of the NEC, probably with an emphasis on high-speed operation, considering it includes the fastest bit of the route (although, conversely, also one of the slowest bits along the coast of Connecticut, and the speed over this section averages out to just 70 mph / 112 kph) and other routes are also clearly high speed-centric. Again, because it's so high-speed-centric, I don't think it would come with the relevant commuter railroads. But the main thing with this is the length. The whole route from New Haven to Boston is...

...157 miles / 252.67 km.

157 MILES / 252 KM.

AND I THOUGHT LONDON-NORWICH WAS CRAZY!

Length: 157 mi / 252.67 km
Rolling Stock: Amtrak ACS-64 + Amfleet I, Amtrak Acela, CSX GP38-2 + some freight possibly
Loco DLC: Shore Line East M8 (those are coming to the SLE soon, from what I've heard), MBTA HSP-46 (or F40 rebuild for reference material purposes)


Southampton Railway: Basingstoke - Southampton (UK)
Oh, we're back to short routes now, for some reason? Bit of calm, UK commuter stuff, I guess. It's a nice route, I guess, and perhaps it's more likely that DTG would keep making this length of route for a while. In addition to the light, rural-ish commuter action, there are also extensive freight operations.
Length: 34.2 mi / 55 km
Rolling Stock: SWR Class 444, SWR Class 450, EWS / Freightliner Class 66 + FKA Wagons
Loco DLC: CrossCountry Class 220


Semmeringbahn (Germany)

Uh... ok then. Germany... sure...

...Anyway, we got this route for the original TS, so this may be a bit familiar. This beuatiful,steep mountain pass is perhaps the single most well-known railway in Austria, not Germany. I don't know if it would be that different from the TS version, but I remember that there were a few requests for a proper Railjet, so I think that could be included- besides, I think this would need a bit extra rolling stock to compensate for it being in TS (still only 3 driving cabs, though). This is a very short route, but that never seemed to bother the steam reviewers.
Length: 42.4 km / 26.4 mi
Rolling Stock: ÖBB / ÖBB Railjet Class 1116, Railjet trainset, ÖBB Talent EMU + international coaches, freight stock
Loco DLC: ÖBB 1114, ÖBB Cityjet Desiro ML (maybe even switch this with the Talent EMU)


Pacific Surfliner: Los Angeles - San Diego (USA)
Ah, a route I have a personal connection with! This is probably the closest to "home territory" I'm going to get here, I don't see them doing a random flat bit of the CSX A-line lol. While I no longer live in the area and have not been there for years, I have fond albeit vague memories of riding trains (Surfliner and Metrolink, both) from Santa Ana to San Juan Capistrano (and at least once all the way down to San Diego) before we moved out to just about the exact opposite side of the country. Of course, both trains are getting new rolling stock now, so at the very least I won't be able to drive F59PH's or anything... ah well.

In fact, if they're going to do the whole route again (they did this one in TS also), we'll probably only see Amtrak Surfliner stock, since they don't even have licenses for either Metrolink or Coaster (the 2 commuter operators on the line) and freight is run by BNSF, which, you know, is complicated.

Also worth noting that this is another exceptionally long route- clocking in at 130 miles / 216.67 km!
Length: 130 mi / 216.67 km
Rolling Stock: Amtrak Surfliner SC-44, Surfliner Cab Car + Surfliner Coaches, Superliner Coaches
Loco DLC: Amtrak P32-8BWH, Depends on how willing they are to do unbranded stuff (BNSF C44-9W, F125 + Metrolink Stock, Rebuilt F40PH + Coaster Stock)


London Underground: Central Line (UK)
Ah, this has been a TS request for AGES now. There's always someone out there asking about the London Underground for TS or TSW. Well, this should be proof that yes, they have at least considered it! The Central Line is... kind of an interesting choice TBH, not many reasonable expansion opportunities, which is rare for DTG. But a lack of expansions doesn't make it any worse, if anything, it makes it more complete right out of the box. It still provides the fast-paced proper metro system action unheard of in both TS and TSW (well... RT comes close and now TS is getting an U-Bahn). Since it would only come with one train, and probably never get anything else, it sounds like a good candidate for reduced pricing like WSR. Having said that all the tube fans are going to be quite angry if it doesn't include all the proper features and such!
Length: 46 mi / 76 km (about 15 mi / 25 km underground)
Rolling Stock: LU 1992 Stock


Geislinger Steige (Germany)
This... this one looks way too familiar. It sounds a lot.. and I mean a LOT... like MSB. No, seriously, they're both very similar routes, with similar operations, rolling stock, and mountain grades. Based off that and the title (which only refers to the steep grade part with banking operations) I don't think this would be a full route either- I just went with Ulm - Plochingen. Perhaps a Stuttgart S-bahn xtension from that poin t could work in the future, like the Hamburg S-bahn extension on TS.
Length: 71.6 km / 42.96 mi
Rolling Stock: DB Class 151 (also usable on MSB), DB Class 146, DB Doppelstock Cab Car + DB Doppelstock
Loco DLC: DB Class 111 + N-wagen (N-wagen + 143 drivable on RSN, 111 + Doppelstock drivable on MSB, 143 from RSN can be paired with n-wagen on this route. Yes that's unnecessarily complicated), DB Class 294 (also drivable on MSB and RSN), Class 101 + Driving Trailer (also drivable on MSB)


LGV Nord: Paris - Calais (France)
Ah, now this is high speed! Sure, we've seen German, British, and American high speed routes, but they weren't... you know, truly high speed- they all have other traffic and they reach speeds of "only" 250/160/241 kph or 155/100/150 mph, respectively, while THIS guy . If you liked the TGV stuff in TS, this should be interesting for you. Signalling on these can be really fun. Of course, these do need to be long to be enjoyable, since the trains are so fast- thankfully, my goodness does this qualify as "long"- in fact, this is the LONGEST of these 15 proposals at 333 km / 227 miles!!! No room for doubt on this one, it clearly says in the title that this route would go all the way from Paris to Calais. (Unfortunately, Eurostar is apparently one of the strongest NO's out there when it comes to licensing, so TGV only, unless Thalys is open to this kind of thing, not sure about them.)
Length: 333 km / 227 mi
Rolling Stock: Blue/Silver and new paint TGV Duplex
Loco DLC: Blue/Silver and new paint TGV Sud-Est (or the other way around)


Hok(k)aido Shinkansen (Japan)
Alright, NOW we're talkin' international! Talk about putting the "world" in Train Sim World... that's more like it. Okay, same thing with France and Austria, but those are still on the same continent! This is ALSO a truly high-speed route, like the one above. It's shorter (at 148.9 km / 92.5 miles) but it's also slower (at 260 kph / 160 mph, but also 140 kph / 85 mph on part of it). That's not that bad- combined with the fact that most of the route is underground, it brings the amount of effort required to make this route a lot more modest, for any of you who doubted DTG's ability to do some of those previous routes. Interestingly, part of the route is also dual-gauge, with standard gauge for Shinkansen trains and narrow gauge for freight (which could also be modeled, I guess, at least in a DLC). That would be an interesting first for TSW. That being said, it does make you wonder whether it's really the best choice for a Japanese route. 160 mph is still fast, and of course you still have your crazy signalling, but like 2/3 of it is underground! Also worth mentioning is the Seikan Tunnel- the direct Japanese equivalent of the Channel Tunnel, connecting Hokkaido to Honshu, the main Japanese island. It's right in the middle of the route (responsible for that 85 mph limit), and while the scenery might be a bit boring unless you like concrete, I can't help but be a bit curious about what driving that is like.

And... yes, they misspelled "Hokkaido."

Length: 148.9 km / 92.5 mi (about 97 km / 60 mi underground... yes, that's the underground part.)
Rolling Stock: JR East E5, JR Hokkaido H5 (They're pretty much identical, they have different color stripes to denote their owners and slightly different coach interiors, that's literally the only difference)
Loco DLC: JR Freight EH-800


Personally, I won't lie, if done correctly these could ALL be great routes and I'd buy all of them. Obviously, though, some are better than others, including routes that aren't on this list, lol. Also, it would make the Baseless Speculation Thread too easy!

TL;DR: Expect longer routes eventually, and even international ones. Perhaps the winners of the survey, even (the real one, not this thing).

Yes, I will be adding to this post more later, including all of these traced out on Google Earth / Google Maps.

 

I think the route in this list that I can see being made the most is Brighton Mainline. Its a route that has aged really well in TS1 and is still used a lot. I don't think it will be long till we see an Electrostar in TSW.

But for me personally, I would like to see the Tyne Valley Line in TSW.

 

North east corridor would be awesome from Boston to New heaven.

 

Wow, what a nice compilation! Thank you!
I'd like to see more High Speed, preferrably the ICE, mainly because I'm from germany (my favourite would be the ICE 1 or 2, I think they look more interesting than the newer generations).
Then I also like the Alstom Coradia DLC, i ride this train twice a week and would love it.
But a TGV or Shinkansen sound very nice too!

 

Keep in mind my loco ideas are complete speculation based off of some research (aka Google), the only thing the survey said as the name of the route... but yeah, I think I'd like to see high speed also!

(I put ICE 3 for the Köln-Aachen High Speed Line instead of an ICE 1 or 2 just because it seems to run on that line more often, might have to do with most ICE's on that route continuing into Belgium. I think I agree that ICE 1 and 2 look better, though.)

 

raildan For Semmeringbahn an ÖBB BR 1144 (or even an ÖBB BR 1142) would be much more likely than an ÖBB BR 1014 because ÖBB doesn't use these anymore. An ÖBB Cityjet or 4020 would also make sense.

 

Ok, thanks for the info! I'll edit the post.

 

There are quite a lot of interesting routes in that compilation. Since we have to pick 3 for this poll i voted for:
- Köln - Aachen. Beeing from Germany that sounds like the most interesting out of the German routes in there. Also driving the ICE would be pretty cool.
- Tehachapi Pass (USA). Looks interesting, since i´m playing on console an American Freight route would be interesting to drive for me.
- London - Norwhich . Such a long route would be a challenge and this one does look pretty interesting.

Wouldnt mind if any of those routes are heading to TSW in the future, but those 3 above would be my top choices.

 

Agreed. My group is making that

 

As much as I’d love to see the Brighton Main Line in TSW, I just don’t think the game is ready for it nor could it handle such a route efficiently.

Some reasons:
- Clapham Junction has 17 platforms. That’s a lot of AI traffic and NPC’s required without it feeling dead.
- The game will be a lag fest in busy areas. Coding will definitely need altering/improvements required before we see this amount of trains.
- Too many different trains and TOC’s required. Southern, Gatwick Express, South Western Railway, (Southeastern) and Thameslink.
- All TOC’s above have a variety of different trains.

I’d rather the game gets its important core game improvements sorted out first before we end up with a route like this. Otherwise we’ll end up with a potentially laggy, dead looking and feeling route with not much variety.

 

Brighton Main Line
Köln - Aachen High Speed Line
Tehachapi Pass

I see a majority have also picked these routes as well. I would love to see more UK based commuter rail services and some high speed German service as well. I try to scratch my itch for this in TS2019 but I can not get that game to run stable FPS wise for me to be able to enjoy it properly so I would love to see it brought to TSW.

I can never get enough major Class 1 US freight action so Tehachapi would be perfect. I'm not betting on seeing BNSF officially brought in by DTG for this route but I'll take what I can get.

Great write up on this post by the way!

 

The proposed included rolling stock for the Koln-Aachen suggestion seem a bit excessive and fairly unlikely in my opinion, I mean that is more unique rail vehicles than any single addon to date:
ICE3 - I think that is 8 unique and new rail vehicle types
DB189 + Freight - Well that's one new loco for starters, Freight wagon type and quantity isn't specified but lets just say 2 minimum although these could be recycled. So a total of 1 new loco, and something like 2-4 recycled or new wagons.
Talent 2 - 3-5 rail vehicles depending on which formation is selected, so potentially 3 reworked rail vehicles and up to 2 new rail vehicles.

So at the 8 new rail vehicles, 1 new loco, and 3 refurbished rail vehicles and probably 2+ recycled wagons, and potentially up to two more reworked rail vehicles for the talent and more wagons, so 14+ items at least.

Compared with other DLC
CSX - 3 new locos, 6 new wagons. (9)
MSB - 1 refurbished/recycled loco (185.2), 1 derived loco (146), 2 recycled wagons and 2 new wagons, 2 reworked coaches. (8)
RSN - 2 New locos, 4 new wagons, 2 new coaches (8)
GWE - 2 new locos (43), 3 new unit vehicles (166), 5 coaches and 2 new wagons. (12)
NEC - 1 new loco, 1 recycled loco, 3 new coaches, 3 recycled wagons and 2 new ones (10)
NTP - 1 New Loco, 1 reworked loco, 2 new unit rail vehicles, 2 new coaches, 1 reworked coach (7)
WSR - 2 New Locos, 2 new coaches. (4)
LIRR - 2 new unit rail vehicles (2)
RT - 3 new unit rail vehicles (3)

Average 7 Rail vehicles per DLC.

At the very least it is more than any other DLC to date, even GWE which probably had the some of the longest dev time of any addon.

 

Excellent post RailDan!

I’d love to see some ‘new’ stuff. Personally I’ll always prefer UK content, and would really like to see routes not seen in TS1 initially. With so much of the North of England and Scotland not touched that would be where my vote goes, so from that list the Tyne Line would be preferred for me.

 

The Brighton Mainline does have freight. Below is a list of freight traffic that passes East Croydon
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...3/20/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=freight&order=wtt

 

Some interesting possibilities there. I agree Brigton Mainline is quite likely one we will see in the future as it is a point to point route between two major destinations and is probably just about the right length. DTG could possibly get away with just releasing it with a Southern 377 and 455 initially and then add some DLC like the Gatwick Express and Thameslink (or whatever they are called now).

If we could only choose one of those routes it would be Newcastle to Carlisle, a scenic route between two large rail centres and it would be interesting to have a Pacer in the sim.

 

I was praying to keep it down there, and TaBH I still don't think it's that unreasonable, but maybe a class 185 is more likely instead of a 189- not exactly sure where that idea came from.

The Talent 2 probably wouldn't need too much work, freight stock (and 185, I guss) can be completely reused- only completely new thing is the ICE. Seems reasonable enough.

 

Ah- thanks. I've updated it and thrown a reused 66 in there.

 

I think you forgot the 66 for GWE, and the GP40-2 is also used on NEC.

 

Semmeringbahn is located in Austria...

 

Sorry I forgot to put GWE - 2 new locos (43,66). The GP40-2 does appear in NEC through substitution, but only if you own the GP40-2 DLC, so it doesn't count as content toward that base pack.

 

Which I mentioned several times. That was DTG's error, not mine.

 

Also, not 100% sure, but I don't think all of the ICE cars are completely unique.

 

Reading the German wikipedia article, they do seem to be all different to some extent or other, be it power/unpowered, panto/no panto, restaurant, first class/second class etc
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_3#Geschichte
And remember while you may of gotten away in TS1 with basic interiors... can't really do than in TSW any more.

 

Ah... still similar, though.

 

I'd expect the rolling stock on Semmeringbahn to be similar to the one we got in TS1. ÖBB 1116 and 1144, freight wagons and Railjet wagons or IC (Eurofima) wagons. Possibly Talent, Cityjet, 1142 or 4020 as DLC.

 

What are the 2 new unit rail vehicles for lirr?

 

The Tehachapi Pass Route could also have some SP locos. Maybe we could see an SP GP40-2, GP50, or GP60, a C44-9W, an SD70M, an SD45, an SD40T-2 or an SD45T-2. BNSF would be awesome, too. I'd also like a UP ET44AC, SD70ACe-T4, and/or a Genset Switcher.
The Kansas City route really needs both BNSF and UP. Plus we could get the yard in Kansas City.
Pacific Surfliner needs the SC-44 and California cars and a pair of BNSF diesels: the ET44C4 and the Genset switcher.

 

The M7 A and B cars, while similar, are not quite the same - they are in fact 2 separate models.

 

Oh cool

 

TSW routes have only ever had 3 locos, though... that's the trick. But yeah, I could definitely see Tehachapi Pass set kin the SP era,e especially if a modern UP route releases before then.

 

It's about time DTG broke from the UK-US-DE route cycle and created a DLC from somewhere else. Even if the 4th country is less popular than the top three, I think the novelty factor of a new country being featured would more than offset the lower popularity when it comes to sales. It would also mean fewer recycled assets, and as a result of that, bring a new and fresh feel to the game. LIRR and NEC are too similar and so are RSN and MSB. It's supposed to be Train Sim World, so it's about time DTG expanded their horizons.

 

Lirr looks realistic in someways and so does the NORTH east corridor.

 

He wasn't saying they didn't look realistic, he's just saying he wants different areas with different (but both realistic) scenery.

 

I would love different areas to on TSW as well

 

DTG is missing a massive opportunity with cross-border routes out of Germany.

 

id love to see the Leicester to Peterborough line

 

Yes me too, a very characterful section of railway.

 

I live in Leicester and personally I’d rather not see that line as I think it is flat and boring (much like most East Anglia and East Coast routes). Plus we’d probably only get the Class 170 and the 66 (which we’ve already got).

I’d rather see Leicester to Derby/Sheffield as it offers far more opportunities and rolling stock.

 

Or Leicester to New Street

 

That would be a good route. Only 38 miles and could potentially extend in any direction from New Street for future projects.

 

30 different UK routes and 0 italians

 

I can only see five UK routes listed there out of the 15!!

 

I wasn't serious...

 

I'd appreciate some Italy too but I do understand that is not what most people would like to see so that's ok.

We need more Alps in this sim, let the Seemeringbahn come to life

 

Nice

 

Any route that emphasizes or at least includes switching/shunting activities would interest me. Although it's a route add-on, the BR Heavy Freight Pack for the NTP route has been the most satisfying TSW addition so far.

 

Connecticut shoreline east would definitely be awesome from New haven to New London.

 

Still hoping they do KC - Topeka.

 

Looks like that are doing it, but for TS instead of TSW.

https://twitter.com/railsimulator/status/1189150728725630977

 

Yep, saw it a few days ago. Eagerly awaiting the release!