Okay. I understand that I cannot modify what is happening in the cooked route. But I can add additional objects (like a wall or a piece of rubble) that are displayed "together with"/"on top of"/"in" (?) the original route. Can I also add objects that are not only dumb (like a wall), but "get fed" with data from the original route and react to it. So.. Yes, pretty much! Example: In the London Commuter DLC there is this signal at Thornton Heath that is hidden behind a wall (much to the annoyance of big parts of the Japanese playerbase). If I would like to fix this for my route, I understand that I can neither move the signal nor delete/move the wall. Can I copy the signal object from the original route, add it as an additional item in my "add-on" in front of the wall, link it in a way to the signaling system running in the original route that it always copies the aspect of the original signal (that is still living behind the wall), just like a co-acting signal would?
Another example would be the missing advanced signal on LFR. There is a repeater of this further down the line. It could be cloned and placed at the right distance. It’s clearly without the 1000hz PZB magnet but at least I would have a visual reference and would not SPAD every time
You can do that probably. But you can't copy the signal and put it a few meters before the original and expect it shows the same as the one you copied from. A signal is not just a signal. It'S a container full of data that is also bound to the track network. Your copy might be the same signal type, but it loses its configuration then. What you need to do is create a signal with simple logic in it that copies the referenced signal aspects in form of getting the data out of that signal. No idea if that is a usable way of doing such things at all, but should work somehow. Involves lots of scripting work for that single asset of course to ask the other signal what it shows.
Yeah, I understand that. By "copying the signal" I was talking about copying the physical appearance and the ability to light different lights, not all the embedding in the actual signalling system. And, yeah, it would be easier to move the wall, I give you that. But – from what I have learned – this is beyond what is possible with the editor. And, as OpenMinded pointed out, there is a plethora of possible cases when this could come in handy.
But even that can be complicated. The signals are a dynamic blueprint thing. Direct copy seems even impossible i think (i mean selecting it in the route, Ctrl+C and then paste it somewhere). You would need to create a child blueprint from the original signal blueprint, that you then can place. But even then, again, it seems impossible as you need to link it to the track what is not doable in a cooked route. So, you have to do a bunch of overriding script parts stuff to get it to what you need. I assume it'S easier to crate a new 3d model that can only do what you need or at least search all the separate parts of the signal and puzzle it together in a not inherited new blieprint to get the visibale elements and then put in your logic to make it doing what you want.
I think the editor looks amazing. Of course there's quite a steep learning curve, but even with my limited coding/Blender experience I was able to keep up with the stream. Thanks for the clarity and for providing the editor!
Alright, I see, thanks for the clarification. As long as it is possible at all to get the necessary data out of the original route and have your own assets react to it, this sounds very promising.
No problem. And if you really want to do such things, you should know about the concept of event binding in UE4. It would be really bad if you poll the data out of the other assets.
Would it not just be easier for DTG to move the signal for everyone? If it’s behind a wall it’s obviously not in the right place?
Guess not, because: - Moving the signal: 1 minute of work - Filling the route table: one click. - Simulating and fixing the whole timetable: up to a week maybe? depends - Cocking the route for each platform again: no idea how long that takes, a day maybe. - Putting it on the platforms: lots of work too i would assume All for a moved signal? Will never happen i would say. Not sure tbh.. If there is more to fix and developers have time for it (Developers never have time left), it could be done.
further to the previous person, are there any plans to fix the hidden signal at Thornton Heath on the London to Brighton route please?
Alright! Never heard of that before, but I will research it! That is an interesting, but almost philosophical question, that I can't answer. And obviously I am super interested in how stuff like signalling and safety systems in the game actually works and what you can learn about it und do with it in the editor. And how we can smoothen off the little annoying edges in the game (that are not worth fixing for the developer) ourselves, without touching the integrity of the cooked route.
watching the stream of the pc editor was good. one part is when you start new map you have i guess the default unreal editor lighting and sky setting object that later the person remove and replace it with TOD4 object. could TOD4 be default thing in future when starting new map?
It's just two clicks more. Nothing to fear. Changing it might be possible but would need hands on the engine core.
Not even grouping the same occurring steps in a macro/function so you don't have to repeat the same procedure for every service of a stopping pattern? You could have the start service node and then call a function/macro node for a RE1 pattern from Cologne to Aachen. As such, the repetitive part would have to be done only once for each stopping pattern and could be reused for every service in it - shortening the time needed to work on the timetable. Would it be possible in scenarios to have dynamic behaviour? As in: you drive a regional train from Cologne to Aachen and sometimes an ICE service is starting late and is behind you instead of ahead you and it will overtake you, for example, in Horrem. But if you are fast, then it might have to crawl behind you until the next opportunity to overtake you. I thought to implement this by dispatching only to a certain point (like in the real world) and then dispatch to the platform on the main track if the ICE didn't pass an earlier point first or to a platform off the main track if it did.
There's no way to ease the repetition, no - but bulk copy-paste works wonders. You can use comments to make it easier to read. One of the problems to solve with a macro to repeat things is how you still then put all the timings into each stop. Plus, in my experience, things that look repetitive rarely actually are. Sorry, this bit is a bit mundane, but as I say, with copy-paste it's a lot less problematic than it sounds. There's also some tools to help with timings - so for example, as I understand it Joe's approach to timings allowing manually entered times everywhere is to make one example that works well, and then copy-paste it as needed, then use the delta-shift feature so that you just change the start time of each service and it will shift all the times of the following stops within that service by the same amount, so having set one "leg" of the service pattern up you can pretty much get the rest in fairly quickly afterwards. In some cases operators also build redundancy in to service patterns by having trains running varying services - so not always the same one back and forth, such that if that train went out of service you'd lose a little out of a bunch of services rather than a massive hole in one. LIRR is one that does this big time. Plus you need multiple trains for full service delivery, so you'll find train one maybe does the 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th and 16th runs for example simply because it takes an hour to go end to end and its an "every 15" minute service. We have looked into possibly doing replication, but honestly it's not the hard bit. The hard bit is making it all work at the end. Half (probably less) of making a timetable is building the instructions, the other half (probably more) is making it actually work and not have service clashes, realising that sometimes trains follow different paths on different runs and go into different platforms to avoid clashes, or that you need to manage the dispatcher more carefully around choke points to prevent one train holding things up for too long etc etc, with each iteration taking a couple of hours at a time to see what happens. Can scenarios be dynamic? I've been asking the same question... nobody has tested this behaviour out yet in this specific case but... there is a way to dynamically inject go-to's and so forth into the timetable from within the blueprint. Which tells me that in theory, you could set an entire player service pattern up this way, dynamically, as you proceed along the line and achieve exactly the idea of "if you get here after X time, yoy're going in the loop, if not, you can go on the main". Again, not tested, but, I've seen what look to me to the building blocks to achieve it, the devil will be in the detail i'm sure. Matt.
Back from a very hot walk... Just to clarify something that might already have been answered. Will the route editor be available from 21st Sept to Early Access buyers or will it roll out with the general release on 26th Sept?
Will it be possible to create new signalling systems, at least ones of similar complexity to those already existing in the game?
In theory, devil in the detail on that one. I'd guess if it was functionally equivalent to another one though it ought to be possible. Matt.
None i'm afraid other than UE4's export to its own format of .ASC file which is not useful at all in this case. Matt.
For an example, would it be possible to recreate the historic 140mph signalling on the ECML? This was the same as regular UK four-aspect signalling but with the addition of a fifth double green aspect, so there's no additional "logic" needed.
How easy is it to collaborate with other people whilst route building? Is it is pretty straightforward to set up? (I imagine that's more of a general unreal feature?) Could two people work on creating a timetable simultaneously? EDIT - Just got up to the part of the livestream about collaboration.
It was really good! Wasn't as daunting as I thought it might have been as I've seen some bits of the vanilla UE editor. Generally it was a great stream! Definitely think there's a good opportunity for a micro series to basically show users how the basic elements of how the TSW tools work. I'd propose making a micro route from start to finish simply to show the mechanics. Doesn't need to be anything super fancy with polished scenery placement and all that. I'd imagine anything like that is more generic UE understanding more than anything. I'm envisioning a series showing users how to build from scratch up to having a spawn/start location in a shed or yard (all small scale of course) and then having a small station, a few stations after and an end point. Again we're not talking anything much more than say 2 miles maybe? Could probably go much smaller Just whichever works best for time constraints. I think once the micro series is done, if there's room/time to do branched off videos focusing on particular tricky elements, this could maybe help? Congrats though, looking forward to seeing what people come up with.
Thanks to Matt, Will & Alex for putting up the stream! Saw it today, and already folding up my sleeves for a long-term project I have aspirations to make a couple of historic routes, a LOT of unique & quirky rolling stock, and a railway museum. So my questions with that as a reference - 1. Apart from the mentioned ( UE Editor, TSW Editor, Blender ) what else will I need in my tech stack? ( Will the editor handle the sounds? Do I need C++ to simulate a standalone model of an IC engine for static display? etc. ) 2. If I want to simulate a new traction/propulsion system ( like monorails, etc. ) can that be implemented here, or will the simugraph need some tweaking from DTG's end to accommodate it? 3. Can I make cutscenes? Thanks
It would be very cool to have a small tutorial (video or text with images) that explains these building blocks. We'll have to see if that works out but if it does, it would create replayability in scenarios and a sense of the world reacting to the player. I've seen in some routes that the next section is only dispatched after stopping at a station. How can that be done? You mentioned delta-shift feature and individual stop times. Probably a good idea if you can get Joe to describe all the features that exist for scenarios/timetables so that the number of people capable of building timetables increases.
I’m very excited to start using the editor once it launches. I have to say I feel out of my depth here. Matt’s tutorials will certainly go along way. The most important information regarding the editor though, which I don’t think has been mentioned, is the ability to create “any route” we liked. Also the length. I doubt something like Penzance to London Paddington could be created for example. Maybe it could though if you created it in 4 separate parts. The amount of time though, that would take for one person. Still, it’s an exciting prospect.
FYI, there's a Blender 3D Modeling Online Course Mega bundle on Humble Bundle, only for the next 23 hours though. Lots won't be relevant but looks like a bit of train related stuff and some general tutorials.
or ALTERNATIVLY you can watch the blender guru donut tutorial on youtube for....... free? A high quality trusted tutorial, again, for free? Like there is NO need to pay for stuff like that when a perfectly good blender guru channel is siting there. How I learnt blender? Blender Guru donut. EDIT: heres a link aswell because im so nice: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjEaoINr3zgFX8ZsChQVQsuDSjEqdWMAD Ill admit this is one that was updated but I learnt via the 2.8 version but still - Extrmely good stuff ive watched it because why not and yeah - Very high quality teaching for the low low low low price of 0 pound.
That's already implemented on the ECML coming with TSW4, but, if it wasn't, then in theory, quite likely. However, that IS additional logic, but should be readily achievable in the blueprint and not need anything deeper than that. Lots of the signalling logic is done in blueprint. No, the smallest point of "collision" when working with multiple people is a single file - and in this case the timetable is one file, so while one person has it open nobody else can edit it. UE4 has sounds but no real editing facilities so if you go out recording stuff you're going to want Audacity, Goldwave, Reaper, Logic - whatever floats your boat - to edit the audio ready to drop in. Same if you want to do VO for your scenarios. If you can make it work the way you want using the existing simugraph components, you're golden. If you need new simugraph components or new options etc then that would need our team to add them. You can record videos any way you like and play them, and you can use the built in cinematics to create scenes too. Every instruction has a "despatch beyond instruction" tick box. If unticked, then dispatching is only done as required for that instruction and no further. You could have this on a go-via for example, holding the dispatcher back from allocating a path through a busy interlocking until you *actually* need it rather than some miles previously (depending on signalling system), as soon as you complete the go via, then next instruction becomes active, gets dispatched and the path is set releasing the signal. You'll have seen this trick used before, it's perhaps not elegant but it's effective at keeping track moving, otherwise you will find yourself in real problems on complex junctions like branchlines coming on to the mainline etc. For station stops, because you can now put them on the "stop at" and the "load passengers" separately (didnt used to be able to do that) it means you can put it OFF on the stop at, meaning you approach on a red with the path NOT set beyond the platform, and then the moment you stop and the "load" becomes active, it'll try and allocate the path and get you a proceed aspect - meaning you can close the doors on non-red, and that it is already ready for you before and not waiting for you to close. It's also effective where you have single track beyond the platform, because there's been no rogue request spammed out on to the single track - until you've actually stopped it's clear and another train in the opposite direction can make it on, at which point once the stop at completes and it tries to get your path, it'll fail until that train arrives and clears the section in front, then granting our proceed aspect. Hope that helps. Matt.
That helps a lot. If dispatch beyond is active, how far ahead does the dispatch beyond go? Is it the next go via/to instruction or something else?
Right i'll be brief. I really enjoyed the stream but I think for me it will be scenario mode for me that I will be most interested in.. As and when I will do this after its launched I dont really know. My world fell apart early Tuesday morning and I am really struggling to cope. But I am looking forward at when things get back to normality to learn how to do scenarios. Hentis
Signalling system will naturally dispatch as much as needed to get the player a green signal or until it stops due to natural causes, or an instruction that has no dispatch beyond on it. e.g. if it's semaphore signals it only needs to really clear one or two blocks ahead. If it's 4 aspect colour light it's got to really be clearing 4 or 5 blocks ahead. With some of the US signalling it might be as much as 9! Note: blocks - not distance, all signalling is done between signals no matter how far apart they are. Matt.
Just to add on to my post, could be a great opportunity for a community member to help with this who's already extremely clued up with UE and just needs to learn how to use the TSW tools. Bonus if they are a content creator or are versed in screen capture and can record themselves talking people through the processes. Food for thought anyways!
DTG Matt Can you give us a heads up on what specific types of DEM and LIDAR we need please so we can get searching? Thanks mate
Thanks for the link! Nothing wrong with Humble Bundles, though; they're both inexpensive and loaded. I'm hoping someone starts a thread of helpful links for prospective TSW Editor users.
Like what projection it needs to be in, etc. "pre-processing" was mentioned, Which I think was doing just that. You probably just need the proper LiDAR toolbox in QGIS or ArcGIS, whatever GIS software you have to convert the LiDAR to the Projection that TSW editor is looking for.
I'll try and convince Lukas to put something together outlining the types of data. I believe DEM is easy, its the same data you've been using for years in HGT files. LIDAR I have zero clue about Matt.
Thanks Matt, That would be very useful and welcome. I have been trying to find out this little bit of Info for days now.
I remember mentioning my own artistic ineptitude in a stream chat a while back and you saying the same. I look at Blender screenshots and its capabilities and my head kind of explodes. It's encouraging to hear from you that being able to use something like Blender is not just a pipe dream.
Yep all the NASA stuff is now 30m. North of about 60 deg latitude, where only the fearless (!) route builders tend to venture, I have still had to use stuff from the Viewfinder site which varies in resolution but generally 30m. I also still have all the OS DEM that was hosted on UKTS, but that has probably been bettered. Well it was (is) good enough for Trainz and TSC! As regards sourcing and converting LIDAR data… Well Google probably your friend for the first, I spent a few minutes yesterday trying to find my way around a Norway Gov. site that purports to have LIDAR, but without knowing what files we need it’s needle in a haystack time. Which is where 2 comes in… we need to know what format/files we need to download and what they need to be converted to for use in TSW.
DTG Matt. A few questions about the editor. 1. Station lighting. Is it possible to adjust/change stationary light sources?2. Locomotives. Is it possible to change the light of the locomotive? This is especially true for the direction and intensity of the headlights / spotlights (Example in the pictures below).
Couple of housekeeping questions DTG Matt, if you get a second. 1. Does the editor go live on 21st or 26th September, the former for those of us who ordered the Deluxe version. 2. Any potential issues with the installer? I’m currently trying to install the basic Unreal Engine for a generic dabble, but it seems to hang on 91 to 92% validating. Hoping the custom editor won’t have these issues. 3. I assume having setup my Epic account yesterday, once it is available do we use the Unreal console to find and download it?
After having played with UE 4.25 for a while I decided yesterday to install 4.26.2 and I had forgotten how long it can take to install, including a long verifying period at the end, but TBH it wasn't really a problem. I'd also like to know the answer to those questions. I can hardly wait to have a go with the official editor.
