Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 3 Year Anniversary

Now this is dedication

 

I would have if it was on sale for a significant discount (£7 at most, it's worth no more than that) and/or if there was an upgrade pack, and in the latter instance assuming that I could use my existing TSW3 content in the route editor, the only thing about this thing that is remotely interesting to me... Oh, wait. I can't.

As for the routes, none of them are interesting and all of them are flawed. The German/Austrian route has bad sounds (quelle surprise), the US route has no freight despite it being very easy to added (there was a very good and workable suggestion on this forum for it before the person who posted it removed it), and the section of the ECML they chose is completely baffling. London to Peterborough would have made so much more sense, with the newly-released 700 able to be layered onto it, and the 387 being an easy reskin to have a second train rather than just having one. A bit hopeless if you ask me.

Plus there's the morally dubious concept of TSW4 itself, and the fact none of its features are worth paying for at all. I'll say it again, if TSW4 was a TS upgrade it would have been free, as it should have been for TSW. I don't think you're all stupid for wanting to buy the new game, but I definitely think you're making the wrong decision by supporting this. Every time you let something slide once it can be done again and to a worse extent. TSW2 was far cheaper than TSW3 or 4, which is clear proof that if DTG know they can take advantage of you they absolutely will. If you want DTG to be a decent company, the first step you can make is to not buy TSW4, and if you absolutely want the game but still want DTG to be a sensible company, please buy the game at a discount rather than at full price.

 

I agree, a $5 paid patch upgrade to get the paywalled patches would suffice rather than having to buy a whole pack of routes you may not want.

I'm actually not even sure if I would even buy into that. I would still have to keep TSW2 installed for SEHS, BPR, SOS, and now DRA. What a mess.

 

Well now that's a dream.

 

I thought the absence of the upgrade pack for this year's edition was strange, especially since DTG's explanation was that it confused people. Yes, it wasn't explained last time around, but that's their fault. Surely the better option for them would be to just do a better job explaining it?

 

It wasn't that freight wasn't added, it was the fact that in order to get the "correct" operator on the line, you NEEDED 2 DLCs to get the layers to activate, meaning a new player would have to read the FAQ and know that before had in order to get it done properly, instead of DTG actually adding the 2 MINIMAL pieces of stock to the route so freight is on by default.

And that's only a small bit, not mentioning the lack of a very large UP intermodal yard on the route, the lack of proper UP train symbols for the freight timetable.

But hey, at least the Metrolink stock is decent...

 

Yeah, I’m still baffled by the decision not to include the UP stock with the base route. Seems like a slap in the face to new users.

 

I won't
1. I have minimal interest on the new routes;
2. May change my mind if there is a new route or content that fit my personal preference, waiting for that upcoming 4-6 months DLC's.

 

They posted some new FAQ page regarding how the freight layers work with Antelope Valley and I almost found it confusing. And it doesn't answer the main question really. Why wasn't at a minimum, two pieces of stock added for freight? TSW4 is marketed as a new game. So why should you need stuff from a previous version? What if no one has ever played TSW before and has decided to jump in with TSW4?

 

You won't ever get an answer to that question

Its a passenger route with some freight on, not a freight route with some passenger traffic on, and is advertised as such. Click here and you'll see freight isn't even mentioned: https://www.trainsimworld.com/antelope-valley

 

Yet, you could say the same for the Austrian route, but they get freight content included with the route.

So why not Antelope Valley?

 

That doesn't mean you all have to be rude about it. they made a mistake we're not all perfect!!!

 

It's about holding people and organisations to account. Rudeness is counterproductive but there is a place to ask challenging questions.

 

You're kind of missing the point...How many times have they talked about the freight traffic on the line? Yeah okay, the link you shared doesn't make a mention of it. That's because at heart, this really is truly a passenger route, and I'm not disputing that. But DTG has talked more than a few times, both on here and in streams, about the freight traffic on the line. They have acknowledged the presence of freight trains and I guarantee you they would have seen the UP stack trains referenced on here many times on their 2 week trip. There's daily UP freight traffic on this line, including the "Saugus Local" that runs as far north as a small lumber industry right at the Via Princessa station, not to mention that the UP stack trains and others run the entirety of the route being offered.. There may have even been other freight trains working the line while they were there.

So if TSW4 is a "new" game, why not publish it as such. Why do we need to have freight DLC from a previous TSW for it to even work? Again, what about people like me who never even owned TSW3 or any of the freight DLC required? What about the person who's just getting into the TSW franchise? That's like saying if you want the new GTA6 to work with the proper vehicles and other objects, you need GTA5 installed. It makes no sense. Neither does this. I'm not a developer but I can't imagine it would have required that much work to include a bare bones UP stock so the freight layering was correct. Especially considering the stock required for the route has already been developed and sold by DTG! One UP locomotive and one container/stack car. I really fail to see how this was too difficult to include. I'm happy to see that the Metrolink equipment is done very well both with sounds and the overall cab modeling and exterior modeling. They did good on that. It would just be nice to have the proper freight traffic represented. Needing not ONE but TWO DLCs from a completely different version, even though this is supposed to be a new game, is what makes no sense. Now you end up having to pay over double the price if you really want the proper UP traffic. TSW4 + Sherman Hill + Cajon Pass. That's ridiculous.

 

WHY ARE ALL YOUR REPLIES WEIRD AND IN BOLD?

 

They made a mistake. WE'RE NOT ALL PERFECT!!!

 

You know, Now it's even clearer, your questions answer and explain the mega sales that have been pushed out on TSW3 on XB and through the DTG store when you load up TSW3 on PC, I will get a screenshot of that also.

 

Pretending? I will not buy until whether there is a stand alone version (you know, to buy a new route in the future, if I like it, and get some of the new features) or if there is a bundle with a new route I want to buy (which I don't see will happen at the moment) - I will not buy the offered bundle at this time.

 

Picture or it didn't happen

 

No points missed here. You asked two questions, I provided two responses. For all your dissatisfaction, you won't receive an answer from DTG on the first, since its a commercial decision. Perhaps after release some months down the line it will happen

For the second, in my opinion someone that is only just discovering the game for release of TSW4 is highly unlikely to be asking why there is no freight on a passenger line, when no freight is advertised. Game discovery will not lead to these forums, I would say less than 50% chance it would lead even to the DTG website where the streams are in news articles. Greatest chance is probably YT for thr TSW trailer, and possibly the TSW website itself (which still doesn't mention freight)[/QUOTE]

 

No where did I say I was dissatisfied... disappointed, sure. But not dissatisfied. And I think my posts reflect that. I've been trying to provide first hand knowledge of the Metrolink operation and the AV Line since it was first announced weeks ago. And have provided feedback to the proper people at DTG on things I've noticed that should be changed. I'm trying to help make it the best it can be. And with those efforts of providing feedback, was successful in getting something changed. So if you take me pointing out inaccuracies or things that should change or even that it's kinda ridiculous how the freight layering works as "dissatisfaction", you're misinformed and in the minority. Most of my comments echo others about it. And there's a long separate thread that talks all about the freight layering on the route and how it should have been done. So disappointed, yes. Dissatisfied? No. And DTG will get my money for TSW4 anyways. But as a consumer, I'm within my right to point out things I see wrong, especially given my knowledge on the subject.

 

I did not say that people are pretending not to buy it on release day but from most replies I get that most of us realise they will buy this game eventually.


Most will keep pretending until the first sale and I'm suspecting the last stronghold of I-will-not-buyers will fall around Black Friday. After Black Friday everyone will be one of us.

One of us

One of us

 

Probably ... but atm I don't have any motivation to buy if not one of the mentioned condition above manifests.

 

Again, you're reading far too much into my post, and splitting hairs with semantics. I don't disagree with anything that you've said, I was merely providing responses to the two questions you posed

 

I have zero faith the issues with TSW will be resolved within three months. I do expect that's about the time we'll be able to reasonably infer, even if they won't yet admit, which promised fixes they have abandoned. It's not about price. If it was, I'd be picking up TSW4 in the bundles being offered now to get the routes I might one day like when they fix them. But the fixes for the problems they launch with will no doubt be locked to purchasers of TSW5.

 

Okay, I'm sorry if I misread or misinterpreted what you said. It can be very easy to do sometimes on these forums. I'm glad to see we're on the same page. Like I said, I'm still gonna get TSW4 as I think the positives outweigh the negatives. Just wish things were done differently in certain areas.

 

I have zero faith in DTG resolving the issues in three months as well but I have also zero faith in you being able to resist the lure of new trains


One of us

 

I went this many decades without buying anything train sim related, one more year isn't a big deal.

 

Deary deary me

 

Looking at this thread we have already a lot of enjoyment of TSW4. Forum subscription should also be tied to an upgrade

 

Do you really enjoy this? I'm not. It fuels my anger about the anouncement of TSW4 everytime. Additionally I have little hope that anything will change about it. So, no TSW4 doesn't envoke any joy what so ever.

 

TSW3 was my first ever Train Sim and it cost me £11 from a certain website during a 'Sale' last year - I'm certain that I can hold out until TSW4 hits a price tag more in line with my short arms and deep pockets. Only then I will join the TSW4 collective. In the meantime I've got better things to do, like polish my new car, cut the grass, walk the dogs, eat some chicken nuggets etc etc...

 

I hope soon will Community Manager this pointless, nonsence thread closing.This are another thread to Discussion.The End!!!This forum is very, very toxic!!I love TSW and is good TSW4 will soon coming.

 

No worries, I am fed up enough with their business practices that I will happily pass Black Friday, Winter, Spring,... sales and not pick up this game. I don't like getting mistreated, I still don't like it when it's cheaper. Simple as that.

 

No, that's too early, and only having like something around 25% off discount, which is still too high price.

Last year I declared I'll be buying TSW3 the earliest either during Festival of Rail or on Steam Spring Sale, and I got it in February on the last day of Festival of Rail sale.

This time I declared I might be buying TSW4 the earliest on Steam Spring Sale, but in a later post I said that I'll buy either when "Japanese Edition" is released, or otherwise when it's in a Humble Bundle again (lately it gets there once a year, so there's some probability it will be also there the next year, too).

So I won't be "one of you" anytime this year. My current plan is to get it only after a route that interests me will be released (e.g. Union Workshop's).

 

Sure but most of you are here to see the big train wreck at launch date. But there won't be a train wreck. The game will be awesome to play and then the FOMO kicks in



*** I hope this post ages very well***

 

FOMO kicks in only when it is announced that the game will not be available for sale anymore.

 

Oh I hope it sells well. TSW4 needs that public beta testers, so we might enjoy a nice TSW4 next spring

 

Funny, I don't feel being left out with TSW3 at least, I'm glad I got on refund on that "trainwreck". Saved me money and headache!

Don't worry, it was already dead on arrival.

But by that time, TSW5 will probably be announced anyways, so what's the point?

 

You could very well be right. Buying it later and on sale is always the way to go. Get the game for what its worth and with patches influenced by early adopter paid beta testers. If people do end up jumping in later, they're clearly the smart ones.

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...-in-the-tsw4-editor-thread.73211/#post-712278
You have an answer

 

Haha. Okay I might just do that on launch day.

 

Calling TSW4 an update is a false statement.
New routes and features.

 

I am glad they pulled this stunt in a way now, I have gone back to classic a new freeware route has come out which I am enjoying and may just leave tsw for a while. Really enjoying classic i just like how much more alive routes are with the different stock. Tsw will have to wait until it comes down in price or I find some money somehow

 

Just for clarification:

• RailWorks 2: TestTrak route, which was free for all players.
• Train Simulator 2016: Riviera Line in the Fifties; available if players bought TS2016 but the engine upgrade was free, as it should be here.
• TS2020: Nuremberg Regensburg; ditto

So in at least three previous instances (possibly more, I didn't do much research other than the stuff I remembered off the top of my head), a new version of Train Simulator came with a new route. The short TestTrak doesn't really count for this as it isn't a proper route, as much as I like it and use it often, but Riviera Line in the Fifties and Nuremberg Regensburg are both full-length routes (and in the case of the Riviera Line a very good one) that were exclusive to a new version of Train Simulator. To get them you'd need to rebuy Train Simulator, but even if you didn't do that you'd still get all of the updates included in the new version.

And that is the thing that we've been trying to explain, the update is free and the content is optional. It really shouldn't be too hard to understand that bug fixes should not be kept behind a paywall. To play Cement Circle, you need Train Sim World 2, 3, 4 or 5 (at this point I might as well write it as TSW+n). If you are still on TSW1, tough, the content you paid for is still not playable. 'Just get TSW3' is not an acceptable answer, if someone has paid for it their right is that it should work or they get their money back. Any player who still only has TSW1 has the legal right to ask DTG for their money back for the Class 31 as it is not fully functional. Of course, hiring a solicitor for £11.99 is a waste of time and money, but that's besides the point. As far as I know DTG still say the Cement Circle fix for TSW1 is coming, not that anyone believes them.

As has been explained many times before, the new features available in TSW4 are barely justifiable as a new game. To add insult industry, someone who bought RailWorks in 2009 and never touched the game after that point could reinstall the game and have all of the updates made for the game over the past fourteen years, including at least two graphical overhauls, volumetric clouds (a paid feature in TSW, oops), countless updates to the editor (which was available on the day of release without any limitations of what content you can use in it), at least three rewrites of the game's code, two menu redesigns (just like in Train Sim World although these were free) and at least one free train.

So even though you don't need to buy Train Simulator again to get updates, if you want to then you can, and a market has emerged of people buying current and old versions of Train Simulator as route bundles, just like TSW players buying TSW2020 as a route bundle for TSW2. Train Simulator's update model is not just how Train Sim World should be, but it should be an industry standard. There are very few games that have as good an approach to updates as Train Simulator and that's shocking when you remember who makes the game.

The best solution to a problem is usually the easiest one, and DTG can just copy from their own homework for this - make the TSW4 upgrade itself free and include the new routes in a bundle. Not too hard, is it? This was those interested in the latest routes can get them, and those who want to play with their existing content can have all the upgrades they want without needing to pay. This thread is 20 pages long with the current business model DTG have, if they did it the morally acceptable and much more sensible way the thread wouldn't exist at all.

To conclude, TSW4 is a free update (the equivalent of a minor TS yearly update) that you need to pay for, that forces you to buy new routes alongside it that you'll probably not play much anyway.

 

Simple answer for all frustrations: money.

 

Also TSC and TSW are different games.

So why don't they just do the same pricing as TSC..simple it a different game with a different pricing model.

If you notice the pricing model is based off of the same one the majority of console games use. Over 60% of TSW players are on console.

So stop comparing pricing between a PC only game and a console game. It like comparing apples and oranges.

Some of the most purchased games yearly on console are sports games so people will pay, might I add an even more expensive price, for a new version each year.

Even simulators. Farm Simulator comes out every year, its not a free update and all the bugs in the old veraion are abandoned.

So in all honesty please go back to playing TSC on you PC's and leave us who enjoy this game alone. Your not going to change our minds any more than we will change yours.

But just like the people who buy sports games every year, or Farm Simulator we just suck it up. And I hate saying it but policy has always been with DTG if you don't like it don't buy it.

If you want proof just watch any stream from the 1st year of TSW2 's release back. They say it on there many times.

So why people are shocked that they don't care is beyond me. And how does that saying go " fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me "

As others have pointed out it's peoples own fault for believeing that DTG would have changed or became the Care Bears all of a sudden. Shame on everyone who is upset over this as the writing has been on the wall for years now, you just chose to ignore the signs.

And everyone who says meh it's just a game and so what I still have fun, good for you. You realize there are worse things in life to worry about than a little video game. I think inflation on rent and food would deserve the same enthusiasm that people on here are over 40£ for a game.

 

Are you saying people who don't have anything positive to say shouldn't voice their opinions at all? Nobody here is trying to make other customers think any differently. I agree some people shouldn't contribute if they don't have any thing constructive to add nor do i condone people trying to sway the minds of others.

You're on a slippery slope if you think these forums should simply cater for people with positive opinions about the franchise.