So to sum it up: Entitlements are still all over the place (after nearly 3 days), and the blame game started at the same time: it's Valve, it's Epic etc... It's never DTG. When TSW5 comes, will players need to endure this again (every year when a new iteration comes)? I have 102 titles on my Steam account, but I've never experienced anything like this...
What did you expect with this post?! Did you have ever buy games for other titels?! No? Now you see the same results! Welcome in the year 2023!
Why are all your replies hostile and utterly pointless? There are very few games which have 150GB + of DLC (which itself is in 80+ separated packs). It is not normal at all & certainly not feasible long term.
Did you read the part about owning 102 games? Does that tell you that I have indeed bought games in the past? I want to point out, that this is not acceptable, nor practical in 2023. If you are happy with this silly approach, then I'm happy for you. Truly.
Last year PlayStation players had to wait weeks for their legacy content, this year Steam players have had to wait a few days, wonder whose turn it will be next year.
It's unfortunately what you get when you deal with content from a company with one of the worst reputations in gaming. You take the good with mountains of bad.
I mean it is true that valve handle entitlements. DTG don't have direct access to that system, no developer does.
However the developer makes the choice to put out a pretend new game every year instead of updating the core thereby creating the mess in the first place. Entirely on the shoulders of DTG's poor decision making here.
Correct it's no thing that DTG has to fix... You Blame the wrong company... It's easy to do so but not the correct manner... This is what I mean... Some people have no clu and shouting such bullshit and have clue what they talking about...
Okay you think if they update the game that DTG didn't have to re-upload the library? If you brings such changes you have the same thing... New game of upgrade is equal problem
Firstly, quarter in the swear jar young man. And secondly, there's no need to get upset at the truth.
It's the only company that I've ever come across that rolls out an update in such a farcical manner. Spin it how you like, it's hardly been amazing... It's got the DTG brand on the label, they need to own it. If its someone else's issue they can communicate that instead. It's almost like the management structure at DTG hasn't evolved, or is hamstrung by ineptitude in key decision making areas. One wonders if they're out of their depth...
Its because steam was never designed for a game with as much DLC that gets updated every year. I think all the moaners should be hired by DTG and placed in the project team for next years upgrade so we can judge them.
So thats the best way to stop this bad accusations... Return the ball! If you have all the ideas to fix it.... Aply i should say!
I would much prefer there was one version of the game that wasn't switched up to a new numbered version each year. I would happily buy a summer pack of 3 DLCs for the same price as TSW4, without needing it to be a "new" game.
May i remember you.... COD Modern Warfare II last year november.... 2023 COD Modern Warfare III... So whats the point?! And yes there in that community they have complains also but check the price.... 69,99 euro COD and TSW4 39,99 so you see?!
I'd like to see evidence to support your claim. I have games with more dlc than TSW that don't have issues and more updates.
You don't have ones that have to migrate DLC to a new entry. Only other example I know of a game doing it, is Total War Warhammer, and that has much less DLC.
It's not the updating of DLC that's an issue. DTG are really LOVEcking Valve with their constant entitlement transfers, reassigning them to ever new depots and appids, with a complex network of app<>package<>bundle assignments. I know of no other developer that does this. Valve, Epic, Sony and MS are not the ones to blame. TSW4 should have come as an UPDATE to TSW3 using the same appid and depots, only updating their content. Always creating a "new" game, which it is definitely not, that carries over an ever growing load of old content is just a big mess and technically nonsense and unnecessary. That was a marketing stunt only. Really we're at TS2 Prototype v0.9b if you ask me.
Okay if they ask money for the update (same depots) than this problem even solved? Sorry I can not follow the complaints anymore... First the problem was everyone has to pay again and now the problems are solved if they send paid upgrades? Sorry what's the difference than? Only number 4 instead of 3?!
Xander1986 An update updates your current game to a new version. That game will still refer to the same DLC depots (actual file storage), so all you'd see was a big update incoming, without any issues like missing stuff that happened if you followed the Troubleshooting threads. If you assign it to a new game, keeping all the old depots, you have the complex task of assigning the new depot ids to the corresponding old ones - and there's even more: Stuff bought on TSW2020 and TSW2 also entitles for TSW4. And GWE for TSW2020 is also a different depot that TSW2 GWE, TSW3 GWE - don't you see that complex network of "What purchase entitles to which DLC for the four TSW versions that are out there" - that the platforms have to manage somehow? I seriously doubt they dare switching to TSW5 unless it IS a new game - meaning old content would be dropped, and TSW4 would then have the right to exist next to it. And some DLC only having cryptic internal names as "ProductThreeHundredOne" doesn't help but makes things more painful. Explore SteamDB.info a little to get an overview how digital content distribution works. It's a good system that gets abused by DTG's shenanigans. New game - new content, old game - old content. Start mixing them and the "fun" begins.
I dont really understand what releasing TSW4 as a separate game really achieved? (Apart from the PR and Money income from early access etc). Wouldn't we have had smoother results from just a release of 3 new routes with new features and a core update? Because it seems like every time they release a new game it takes weeks to actually get the game running properly and always have this issue with downloading dlc. Xbox is a mess right now. I think TSW4 will be on the wishlist for a while for me personally until the kinks are ironed out
I'm just now about to finish dwnloading my legacy content and first time I'll be playing TSW4 since Monday (other than messing about and getting totally frustrated with the editor). Whatever DTG do next year, they absolutely must implement a system that does not involve having to download nearly 200Gb of content files from scratch. I can't imagine Steam are exactly edified at the terrabytes of data they are having to stream to replace content that is already in the install of the previous version and just needs modifying to work with the new.
Don't worry, a game like TSW played by a small group of players worldwide - as opposed to CS:GO which gets updates weekly and is played by millions - bandwidth is not the problem Steam has. I have downloaded (ticking DLC by DLC via the DLC Manager - not the whole 180GB bulk at once) at full speed. And it's also not storage: Steam hosts every single version, every update of every game and DLC ever released. I can download TS2013 if I want to with an older version of any DLC I'm entitled to, just because I'm not happy with a patch for example, via a simple Steam console command. On TSW3, I redownloaded the version of GWE before the wipers were broken because it was made compatible to Livery Designer and they messed it up and just left it as it is, that's how that company treats you the player - you pay for something, it works, and then they just take it away from you, the cash is already theirs - I cannot now, because it now is a different depot, and the first version for TSW4 ->.No roll back now other than reinstalling TSW3. (sorry for that mess of a sentence) Nothing wrong with the price for three routes and an updated one - but it simply is not a new game and therefore technically it was nonsense to sell it as such - but a "new" game sells better than a seven year old game - which TSW essentially is. And the preorder was immediate cash for DTG. TSW is the game with the most desperately loyal customer base I'm aware of, and yeah - count me in! You can't play that game of breaking stuff and not fixing with Flight Simmers - that's why DTG's Flight Sim World failed.
I'm afraid the audiences, development scope and marketing budgets for Call of Duty and Train Sim World are quite different. It's certainly an interesting argument though.
I was initially disappointed by there being a TSW4 already rather than a Rush Hour style bundle, but then I saw how TSW4 climbed it's way up the pre-order best seller list on the PlayStation store, it's now second on the 'What's Hot' section which will help attract new players. TSW4 will have sold considerably more copies than a DLC bundle would have, so while it's a pain for us having to redownload all our legacy content it's a price I'm willing to pay if it helps fund DTG continuing to release stellar routes like those in TSW4. Not that I'll stop criticising them when things go wrong, but that's just because I love playing this game and want it to be perfect.
That is true the publicity is good and I guess that issues for new players aren't as problematic in terms of the Xbox crashing? But its still not done dtg any favours in terms of quality. Im totally the same though RE playing and enjoying the game! I love TSW and its one of the few games I play often. Its just a little baffling why things are done a certain way sometimes
If I was the head of Valve, I would ban such practices. It's not good for the customer to have to deal with this. I can't think of any other developer that does this either. DTG made the decision so they have to take the blame for this mess as well. I can't see how one can just blame Valve
Nah, DTG is their customer and they do their best to deliver the service DTG are paying for - which is good. I'd probably just charge them a "little" extra Had posted this in another thread, but have to repost here
Having just spent an educational few minutes reading up some of the background on all this stuff we've been discussing, Im of the view that nothing is going to change and its a case of suck it up and like it or go elsewhere (or just wait for something you like to come along and buy in then- my choice of option). My reasons for thinking this- From DTG: "For years, the studio has adopted a robust business model based on synergies between full game releases and a strong live service content strategy providing recurring revenue. Indeed, in addition to its core products, Dovetail has created and maintained an extensive library of 900+ pieces of DLC, delivering players a steady stream of new content, quality of life updates, catalog choices and deep engagement. This acquisition of this UK-based studio, with established owned IPs and delivering recurring revenue is aligned with Focus’ Strategy and is a step forward in moving up the value chain. Consequently, the Dovetail acquisition is expected to be somewhat accretive from a percentage margin standpoint. Dovetail Games has also recently entered the digital board game space with the release of CATAN: Console Edition and is committed to delivering original and authentic board game experiences to video gamers globally. Dovetail should record in excess of £15m in revenue for the year ending March 31, 2023." From Focus: "The Group’s sales reached €38.6 million in the first quarter of 2023/24, ended on June 30th, 2023. This quarter was mainly marked by the contribution of titles launched during previous exercises but also by the successful launches of Warhammer 40 000: Boltgun, developed by Auroch Digital and unveiled on May 23rd , followed by Aliens: Dark Descent unveiled on June 20th and developed by Tindalos Interactive. As a reminder, the first quarter of the previous fiscal year benefited from the big success of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Shredder’s Revenge, launched in June 2022 and, to a lesser extent, from the full release of Hardspace: Shipbreaker. For the first time, the Group’s revenues also include contributions from Dovetail Games Group, notably driven by the franchise Train Sim World and its DLC." They're in a strong place and from their perspective its working as intended. This was only 5 mins reading mind, on the back of a very tasty but coma inducing Chinese meal, so hardly the most robust of analysis processes, but the mouth music points towards full steam ahead (ahem) on a current trajectory. With that in mind, Im probably about to perform a screeching u-turn and throw my weight behind them on the basis that its a waste of time to rail (ahem ahem) against them. Incremental gains here and there (flickering of fences etc pleeeease sort it out) is better than attempting more radical influences I guess.
LOL Catan was laughed out of existence within its first few days of release. It was a terrible digital rendition of the physical game. It's as if they never played the game before or even played the previous digital edition.
It's all shareholder speak. And shareholder driven companies in my opinion are a big problem in most industries. Disgusting practices always making things cheaper in quality for lower cost and faster. Fewer employees doing more for less money. Any additional costs just passed on to the customer to protect shareholder value. But as you said, this is the world we're in now. At least what remains free is the laughter I get.
A regular soapbox moment for me. Look at Thames Water.. Renationalisation is a recurring topic of conversation these days.. But we certainly digress off topic here. Back to the thread- short answer. Yes.
On a more serious note, imagine being a dev/employee operating under a culture which says that "For years, the studio has adopted a robust business model based on synergies between full game releases and a strong live service content strategy providing recurring revenue". And "This acquisition of this UK-based studio, with established owned IPs and delivering recurring revenue is aligned with Focus’ Strategy..." So it's laid out there as far as I'm concerned. I think Im starting to learn that railing (ahem.. again) against the business model is peeing into the wind. Might as well just be much more specific on individual issues rather than the corporate practices which give rise to their existence and longevity.
