I agree with that but the ER is in my blood so I can't help but like her. Give me a V2 or Peppercorn everyday over an A3 though! Because that would mean they would have had to have done a route set in the past and well we know where that goes. This route would have been so much better with Deltics and Duffs and you certainly wouldn't have to worry what the scenery looked like!
Flying Scotsman is nowhere near overrated. A pinnacle of her career, the first steam locomotive to reach 100 miles per hour, and one of the most famous in the world. Definitely not overrated.
Bias doesn't come into it. The section of ECML we got is possibly the best for the Azuma and is known to be the section where speed records are made.
Gonna have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think the Millard is more iconic. Also there are those that are bias to this part of the route. There is nothing wrong with having a bias to something
Stoke bank isn't a landmark? One of the most historically significant stretches of track in the entire world? The unique flat crossing at Newark isn't a landmark? Or all the yards around Doncaster, not to mention Doncaster works itself?
It was mediocre compared to other A1s and A3s though. It very rarely worked the actual Flying Scotsman service. It didn't even hold the speed record for very long. Less than a year later Papyrus (the real best A3) smashed it with 108mph.
if the route has an interesting history then why not set it during that period. imagine the route in the steam period, setting the route in its golden age rather than modern day.
You'd be surprised then to know that Flying Scotsman is the most famous and easily recognised, more so than Mallard.
Because modern stuff sells better, and it would take a much longer time to build. You'd also likely need more than just an A3 to make it work, you'd need a whole new LNER freight engine too, which would be very difficult to source material for.
It might not even have done that. City of Truro potentially could have reached that speed two decades previously. And there's been some debate about Scotsman's record too. Cecil J Allen, a competent and highly experienced train recorder, only recorded a maximum of 99mph. I'm excited to have Scotsman in the game, but not because it's the Flying Scotsman, but because it's an A3. The sole survivor of one of the greatest express engine classes ever built in this country.
I understand why DTG went for a relatively easy stretch of the ECML and why they'd want Stoke Bank in there. It's a better stretch for the Azuma. However, I'm in the ECML South camp when it comes to which section I'd prefer. The suggestion that ECML South would be dull perhaps ignores the variety of services that could be covered by rolling stock that's already in the game. Namely, 313s, 387s and 700s. It would be a cracking addition if done well. We may have another two London "commuter routes" but we don't have any routes in the northern half of the Network South East area so it's a gap that will be filled eventually. Hopefully sooner rather than later please DTG, we've been quite patient enough on the other side of the Thames.
The fact is that until someone mentioned (sorry for the language Jan, JD, Alex and crew, you'll have to excuse it) a GWR loco, every single loco/unit being mentioned deserves to be in TSW on this section of line because they have all, in their own way, made their mark on the iconic section of track we have, through England's best county. My preference would have been for the route to be 70s, but I am loving it in this era and would have loved it in steam era too. Now I forgot what my point was so I'll stop rambling making it look like I have the faintest clue what I am saying.
wouldn't it of made more sense though? doncaster is well known for being where the most famous steam trains were built and stoke bank was where Mallard became the fastest steam train in the world. see the pattern? It has a great steam history. it may take more effort, but would of led to an even better route. the choice feels very middle, not the worst but seems like there were a lot of missed opportunities to improve it with an earlier period or different section for a modern azuma route
City of Truro is disputed though. There are no official records to support it but I do see your point.
Maybe makes more sense, but which freight loco would you include? Steam routes are harder to make precisely because most resources (ie sounds) cannot be sourced due to most being scrapped.
i dont know much about steam but there is a list of preserved LNER steam locomotives that I found after a quick search: https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/lner/
What's so special about a flat crossing that you would pass by in a second? We have a bunch of those here in the United States What's so special about some incline? It's just going up or down a hill.
The flat crossing at Newark is the only one of its kind in the UK, that's why. Stoke Bank also special because many speed records (including Scotsman's 100mph and Mallard's 126mph) have been made there.
Even if no southern portion. You still had York and Leeds which would have been logical terminus points, especially leeds, you could easily layer in a few TSW trains into Leeds. And it’s an actual terminus as well. Another 29 miles, but well worth the effort
To me this stretch of track is like Sherman Hill, a very important spot for railroading heritage, but a section of route that's as boring as watching paint dry. I get why Sherman Hill is done so much in train sims, and it's been done fairly well in said simulators for the most part. But simple fact is the scenery just isn't remarkable in anyway, and operationally even with track 3 it just isn't particularly interesting. I'd much rather visit Rogers Pass if I wanted to experience a route purely on its own merits in terms of scenery. And in terms of what I'd rather play something like the Montana Hi-Line with its jigsaw grades than Sherman Hill constant 1.0% to 1.5% grade. Hell, even if we're talking UP and historically relevant routes Wasatch is a much more interesting route if we're talking scenery, and the grade varies a lot more than on Sherman. Point being that a route being historically relevant doesn't make it a great pick to actually play. This portion of ECML route doesn't make much sense unless it were a period route, and even then there could be more interesting spots to set a period LNER/BR Steam/Green route for all I know.
DTG extended SEHS LOL. No don't worry it's possible, our systems only load the scenery that is visible by the player, hence it doesn't matter how long the route is or what scenery is on it. That's how they did such long routes in TSC and are doing virtually all of Poland in one map in Simrail. I think with DTG and TSW it's more to do wit the man hours to build a longer route, but of course Kings X to Peterborough is not a longer route, and yes they can be connected. Mat even mentioned on one stream such a thing. It would be really cool to do the London termini and add Grand Central.
I'm fine with some one off routes as long as they are interesting and contain more than one unit, but the trouble is the line can look empty. Look at the empty Edinburgh station for example. It ruins immersion. What I'm talking about is building on a route with extra layers so it reflects the route in real life which is far more interesting than a scatter gun approach imo. DTG have actually done it with SEHS most recently with the 700 and the route is the most popular UK route which kind of vindicates what I'm saying! Extensions should only be needed really on the long distance routes such as SEHS and ECML. I expect ECML to be extended the same way, just wait and see,
The whole ECML will count towards bumping up memory, they have mentioned nothing but track can go on a really long time, but scenery will hinder that. Then the traffic is what would put it to sleep, especially more so on Gen 8 SEHS whilst from a player perspective was extended, it was from a technical side re-built, hence for multiple reasons that current way is inefficient.
Flying Scotsman-100mph Papyrus- 108mph Mallard- 126mph (current record for steam traction) 43102+159- 148mph (current record for diesel traction) 91110- 161mph.
There are trains outside the UK that can go even faster. But just because a route may have some historical significance due to some records that were made doesn't mean the route itself is interesting. Sure, some trains have broken speed records that were ultimately broken by other non steam/diesel trains in other countries, but I just can’t find anything interesting about it other then some records that were made in the past Perhaps this shouldn't have been a route set in the modern day because from a gameplay perspective, it isn't much of a challenge and alot of the records that were made weren't done in the modern day
We'll have to to agree to disagree. I don't play TSW for "challenge", and I still get a thrill flying down Stoke in an 801, especially if I manage to spot the sign that marks the location of Mallard's record. I personally love modern, high speed routes with few stops, although apparently that's an unpopular opinion. I seem to be the only person on this entire forum who really likes LGV.
The records made are the fastest of their kind in the world. Doesn't matter if there are faster trains outside of the UK. The fact that those records were made on this section of route makes it interesting, I'm pretty sure anywhere else in the world would be the same. Historical significance plays a major part in the interest. The route was set in modern day specifically to celebrate Flying Scotsman'a centenary, and the section chosen was because of the record it made.
I disagree. Not everyone would have the flying Scotsman unless they have the deluxe or special edition anyways. So I still don't see the interest of this route from a modern perspective. The section was chosen because it was the easiest to make. It wasn't the first one DTG thought about making as admitted in the showcase of the route. A car can break a high speed record down a desert road in Nevada. It doesn't all of a sudden make driving down that straight piece of road in the middle of nowhere interesting. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree
I hope you know scenery is the reason why they don’t do extensions. The main issue is timetable. Peterborough to Doncaster has 452 services (I have missing layers so it may be more) Kings X to Peterboro would definitely be in the 700-900 section. If you extend them both, it would easily top 1,300 services and not all are playable, so bear in mind it would be a nightmare for DTG because they can’t even optimise BML. But to be fair they managed to optimise SEHS, so it’s not impossible
My issue with TSW high speed routes in general is that they are terminus to some odd place. I love high speed and intercity but the runs are way to short, but if you point that out you’ll get shut down by people that are saying they don’t like long routes. I would love more longer high speed routes like London - Peterborough, London - Birmingham, Berlin - Liepzig, Hamburg - Hannover, Trenton - Boston, Marseille to Lyon… etc
I know timetable is the issue for multiple reasons, one including the number then other being the re work as the way to extend currently is to technically re do the route. Other stuff like scenery time & memory will also factor in at various points
Yeah I like the route to be to York with the inclusion of Leeds. I am assuming the timetable is based in 2023. If so we can have services subbing the 91 till it's eventual release and we can run it to the terminating station of Leeds. York would be nice too. I hope DTG could work out a license deal with Lumo and maybe GC too to bring in the 180.
Yeah, but scenery and memory play a significantly smaller role than the timetable. I mean it depends. I personally don’t believe for newer routes need rebuilding because the one route that got extended got converted to TOD 4 with a few other things, but I see your point
not sure what you mean ? I know. But that small role becomes increasingly bigger at 393 miles of length and surroundings .
Obviously 393 miles is extremely unrealistic. But there’s no reason why TSW can’t handle 150 Miles. And I meant the reason why SEHS essentially had to be rebuilt was because the route was flawed, and also converting to TOD4 played a part
393 is the ECML, which is what I was referring to with scenery on fully connected route. 150 on scenery in terms of memory, yea I think it will be fine/not a concern really. Though Gen 8 I’m more doubtful 150 like is quite a chunk still. I see now, it would have played a part, but then there’s the whole how to add extra track and implement it with the timetable which is where the rebuilding comes along even without new lighting or something specifically TOD4 related. Then there’s the matter of it becomes an extended route but not an extension from the technical side of things as they are basically just working on the older part and making that extended rather than anything separated, like it’s not an extra dlc, it just is that route if you know what I mean. And without making it 2 routes currently 1 longer and the other shorter, and needing 2 timetables because of that, they’re isn’t really an efficient option currently for those who do and don’t purchase extensions, SEHS was a mandatory extension.
Yeah there’s a lot of logistics involved. I wouldn’t mind the routes being released separately and we get a full ECML that way
