Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! It's Almost The 3 Year Anniversary

But we've been hearing about an effort to fix things for years. Agreed though. Wait until you see actual evidence of bug fixing rather than "all talk and no walk".

 

im not telling you that you have to do anything, just some advice on how to avoid the comments. you could very easily solve the problem of being left alone and enjoying the game by just going to the many more positive threads rather than this one which has been on fire for the past month. if you want to stay then stay i guess but i don't know why your surprised to see people respond to your posts that way here.

 

But then you run into a problem.

There are countless (mostly unnecessary) negative threads that bury the majority of the positive ones. It's either that, or the positive threads get hijacked by all the negativity.

 

Plus we're trying to reach page 50...

 

The same could be said about the amount of positivity threads, or threads like this one, getting hijacked by the Rose tinted glasses wearers. Swings and roundabouts

 

now i look back yes there aren't many positive threads it seems as a lot of them talking about tsw4 and its issues.
but you could still stay away from a lot of the negativity by staying around creations, off topic and suggestions where most negative threads wont be.
it could be that people just choose not to make positive threads or there isn't anything much to say, but I don't know since I don't own tsw4.
or it could just be that you can only say 'the games nice' so many times and in so many ways leading to the threads washing away quickly.

 

What I'm not seeing, is enough balance between the two.

There are either too many negative threads ignoring all the positive aspects, or too many positive threads ignoring all the negative aspects.

That's without mentioning that some people have been called stupid for liking it at all (go back a few pages and you'll see what I mean), which really is uncalled for and berates people for liking something.

 

But why should you be limited as to where you can go just to avoid all the negative stuff.

I should be able to into general discussion, say something positive and go about my day. Without people coming and say that I am stupid for finding anything about the game positive.

 

I try and balance it out. There's plenty that TSW does really really well. Maybe we could do with pointing that out, and in fact probably could be incredibly useful too for DTG to know what they do well. Point noted and a point well made.

 

I don't think there is anything that stops someone from saying what they want to say. I have never felt, in these forums, that I haven't been able to say what I wanted to say.

However, I do think it necessary to set expectations depending on where you are posting. For example, when I am attempting to help someone by answering a question, or posting in the awesome runs thread, this is a place to be positive. I don't feel like it would be appropriate to reply to someone in that mileu with "who cares about your question or recommendation, this game is garbage anyways."

Likewise, when I am in the "Enough is enough" thread, this is clearly a place for the airing of grievances. If I am here, it is because I want to contribute to that. If I instead start to post about how it's not all that bad, then I think it reasonable to expect pushback (although of course personal attacks are not appropriate). Anyone who comes here and tries to be positive, I would think is looking for an argument, and is likely to get it.

There are places here for people to be both positive and negative. Anyone can go anywhere they wish. It might be helpful for others, as it is with me, to manage your expectations based on the content and character of these various discussions.

 

I'm not against people being negative, they obviously have their reasons. This thread may be the place to air grievances, but that doesn't mean people can't turn the negatives into positives (there has been plenty of both these last few weeks) and then be attacked simply for voicing their opinions.

 

I suspect there's an art to making a point in such a way that it's either hard to tear it down, or one looks like a wally when one does..

 

First of all I should apologize because although I quoted your post directly, I had intended my statement to be rather generalized in nature. So, I should have just created a separate post, and I am sorry that I made it look otherwise.

I think what I am trying to say is that it can be difficult in some circumstances to manage our expectations about how others will react to our statements, even if we have good intentions, and especially when the subject is emotional, like this one. Sometimes the last thing a person wants to hear, when they are frustrated, is that it's not all that bad. At least, not in the moment. But I understand what you are saying, and I even hope that one day I can be positive enough about this game again to buy something beyond TSW3.

But I am not there yet.

 

I don't think you should be limited, i was only trying to give some advice and recommend a nicer way to roam the forums. if you want to stay away from negative posts and say something positive then I would recommend to not post in the middle of 'Enough is Enough' and then wonder why people disagree in anger

 

If there isn't a balance between the pro or con posts of TSW4, what does that tell you about the product overall?

 

You cannot try to force-balance public opinion, that would be dictatorial or "woke". Read other threads or play the game, just a suggestion

 

To put it simple, if all you can do is be negative about the product and shut down those who find the good, then why Continue with a franchise you can find nothing good about.

Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Uh, if there are more negative threads than positive threads maybe its because of the subject rather than the people posting? Hard to be positive about something there are a lot of negative feelings around. Also negative things often want issues solving but positive things are well this is nice and it almost isn't worth a post.

If people want stuff fixing or improving it shows they haven't given up on it yet. The point to worry is when the negative posters just disappear and do something else instead. Far better to be able to convert them into postive posters by addressing their issues.

 

I totally agree and have said this many times before, but that would contradict what I said in my previous comment though lol. Everyone has the right to express their opinions whether it be in a positive or negative way. What’s that saying “everyone has a right to protest”.
What I find odd though, is players who play/prefer TSC more, but want to give daily reviews on how bad TSW is. Wrong forum?
If these players get competent with the UE engine, maybe they can start designing their own routes and understand the hardships that devs face when making a route.

 

It’s the marmite effect.

 

I always try my hardest to be positively negative.

 

(Most) people don't come on here just to be negative. They have, in their opinion, genuine issues and have as much right as you, who appears to have no issues whatsoever, to express their opinion.

As others have said if you don't like the negativity, don't read the threads. The titles of the threads tend to give a pretty good idea as to what the tone of the thread is going to be.

 

That last bit is certainly true. I’ve wasted nearly a week trying to understand what should have been basic procedures, not to any great avail. Even if we had some instructions the difficulty is still far harder than any other train sim editor encountered to date.

 

I found black magic easier

 

Because you have been here 6 months and others who have been here much longer have seen the same or similar issues happening over and over again.

Everyone is here because they want the best product they can get. Some have higher expectations than others. Some are more vocal than others.

They can't go elsewhere because it's a very small niche market and there's nowhere else to go, especially if you are using a console.

 

Love this. Couldnt agree more.

 

Never said I don't have any issues.

My.point still stands - if you are frustrated with something that much, why bother to continue with it.

And just because others have been here longer does not mean they've been dealing with these issues longer than me. I am here precisely because of the issues I have encountered.

 

Gosh is this lot STILL going? Wow

I think the problem here is the Red Lipped Batfish. They’re little rascals. Or it could also be the lowland streaked tenrec. They cause havoc.

 

Of course it does!

If I have been here 3 years and 6 months, you have been here 6 months. Therefore I have 7 times the experience of the forums and possibly the TSW franchise than yourself. That is basic maths.

During those extra 3 years, I have seen the wheel rotate many times. I won't say with promises, because that word seems to upset some, but with inferences by DTG that things will be fixed, improved, added, a whole raft of things they want to do, would like to do, etc, etc.

People keep coming back because they either do believe what they're being told, they hope what they're being told will happen or because they are "Train Junkies" or enthusiasts or whatever other description you want to use and have little or no choice because they love trains and DTG pretty much have a monopoly on the genre.

 

I think what needs to be established is that it’s okay for people to criticise and voice there issues with a game, at the end of the day if they didn’t like the game they wouldn’t be here. And that’s fine, but there are also people who have positive things to say and are fond of the game, that’s also fine. There shouldn’t have to be insults hurled at people who provide criticism and feedback, that’s the only way things get better and people who have positive experiences should voice their own opinions, at the end of the day these are all opinions that people can voice

 

Constructive criticism is useful. Likewise feeding back stuff that works well or is a good experience.

But, and here's the big but, it has to be acted on if its a common complaint. Thus far thats where most of the frustration lies. Historically issues have been acknowledged (so their existence is not in doubt or subjective), but they have not been rectified.

So it's a nuanced argument, not as simple as criticise or not criticise.

 

That's like saying I have more experience than someone else just because I'm older than them.

 

Jack, do you accept that constructive criticism is justified?

 

I could just as easily say that if someone is happy with TSW4 then why even bother raising that fact within a thread full of less than favourable comments?

I'm very happy with Forza Motorsport but have absolutely no desire to mention that within a thread full of less than favourable comments because not only am I fully aware of the majority of issues that are being discussed, it's simply not my place to even start preaching all things good or imply that abstainers are just cutting their noses off to spite their face by not jumping on the new game bandwagon.

Turn 10 - and Turn 10 alone - are the only people who can turn Forza negativity into something a little more positive and likewise, Dovetail Games are solely responsible for addressing any negativity within TSW4.

 

An observation on this question: It is worth remembering that criticism can be both positive and negative, which also extends to the concept of constructive criticism

To critique is to offer ones opinion on a matter, and throughout this thread and others, people are lambasted by posters for having offered critique that does not align with their own, that is the issue at hand in this and other threads

 

Because we all purchased TSW and want it to be better? If my car is broken then I'll look how I can fix it. Without describing the issue, there'll be no fix.

 

In the words of one of my favourite bands.

"Won't Get Fooled Again"............................ DTG.

 

Constructive criticism is obviously beneficial. A good chunk of this thread is not that however.
It's laughable stuff like calling DTG scammers. Name calling people that have bought or enjoy TSW4.

Stuff like this, is quite clearly not constructive criticism.

 

Maybe because I like to turn negatives into positives.

 

I really fail to understand why it's so hard to accept other people's opinions. Some people in here must have borderline tendencies

Why should I care if someone considers it a scam - the only important thing is whether I like the game or not. Why are some folks so keen on changing and even fighting other's opinions? That's become a common trend in real life also.

I've bought the game, not the forums

 

Yeah but the forums are just as entertaining sometimes...

 

Indeed they are.

But the wish of some individuals to apply censorship, or to strive for "equality of outcome" is the wrong way to address issues in general. Improve the game!

 

I am very happy for the people who have bought TSW4 and are playing it and enjoying it. If they like the new routes and features, that's great! But as mentioned by others above, everybody's opinion should be accepted and respected. Have fun with your game (TSW4), while others have fun with their game (TSW3 or even earlier). My game does not run better than your game, and yours does not run better than mine, and you can look at other threads and bug reports to see proof of that. The only question now is, what game is being worked on to improve, and that is TSW4. The older versions are "legacy" (one year old) and if you're satisfied with that, as I am, nothing still impels you to get the new game, you can play it in the state it was left. It will be that way in a year's time as well. It is my OPINION that at least the next-to-latest version should be supported as well, if not even older "legacy" versions. But if your opinion is that only the latest should be supported, that's fine too and we could all indeed type with more respect!

 

But here we are!

 

Yes, I’m exactly in the same boat. The editor really feels alien to me right now. Im out of my depth. I’m very much looking forward to the tutorials DTG will provide soon, they will be a big help.

 

"Oh I'm sorry, this is Abuse" lol

 

Agreed. Lots of good laughs when people wonder why so many things are broken when buying on day one. Well, actually I feel sorry for newcomers as they don't know any better. Veterans of the game though...

 

Also it looks like we've reached the magic 35 pager. I guess we wait and see whether DTG finally agrees that enough is enough

 

its never enough ...