Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 2 Year Anniversary

Absolutely. Great times for the hobby that's for sure. I play both simrail and tsw depending on my mood. If I want to chill after a stressful day tsw is perfect for dropping in on foot with maybe an hour or so of services mapped out in my mind that I'm going to cover as my in game driver character, otherwise simrail provides a great experience. I've only just started with it but even just managing through trains on a starter signal box is brilliant fun. The EU07 is my favourite drive so far as its a very immersive drive in a different setting from what I'm used to.

Edit- just did a nearly 3 hour freight drive on multiplayer. Was an awesome experience with a few waits on sidings for faster stuff to go through. Other players let me know how long it would be so I could get a cuppa etc. Great fun





Rounded off with some dispatching as I get my head around that.

 

Can´t wait to try it on PS5. Any ETA for a console version?

 

TSW4 reached its all-time peak concurrent playership on Steam on 27 Sept with 1,519 players. Not sure how that fact is incomplete data; or how someone stating the fact isn't very good at interpreting data. If you mean interpreting trends in data, then yes it has only been 21 days since that peak on Steam, and maybe there will be an upward trend later. That's a rather obvious observation, as the future has not yet happened in the present "reality."

 

An all-time peak is just a peak concurrent number of players and not an indication of how many players there are and certainly not a measure of sales numbers like some people try to infer. It is also just players on Steam, a potentially shrinking proportion of players. The average number of players shows much better info for interpretation but it is still incomplete and nobody ever quotes those numbers just the biggest peaks or the current number of players. Yet adding up all the Steam charts for all the TSW titles it actually shows an upward trend but nobody is saying that. So anyone can state an all-time peak number and infer too much from it and I could correctly point out they are bad at interpreting data. People who are already saying that TSW4 is a flop haven’t even got enough data to make an assessment just the launch peak on Steam. Incomplete data. It may well turn out to be a huge flop but it is too soon to tell.

 

To make matters worse, of these 1,519 players in all-time peak, a selective portion may have requested a refund and returned the product for various reasons, there are also those who buy and never play again, this happens with several games, I normally ignore the numbers from those first days and also evaluate to 24-hour peak where it is the most correct for analysis.

 

The newest member of DTG's quality control team is pictured reacting to the sheer number of error and bug reports immediately after the release of TSW2.20 (aka TSW4)

 

They'd actually have to care more than they appear to in order for this to be more accurate.

 

With Steam charts being the only information available, I would say really anything is speculation then, now or in the future. Is there a metric you are aware of when the day comes that any conclusions at all can be drawn? I agree on your point of adding up all the titles it shows an upward trend, and that is good for the game and players.

 

"So much for recorded crimes, but crimes we know nothing about are going up as well"

 

There are also the company accounts each year showing how much revenue DTG get for all of their products but they are out of date by the time you can view them online. There’s not much else to go on.

 

There is some work around using some of the steam metrics to try and project sales numbers i.e. https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam/number-of-copies-sold

 

Yeah, basically multiply the number of reviews by 50 and then take the answer with a pinch of salt. It’s jolly good fun trying to work these things out knowing your answers are going to be based on assumptions and standard gamer behaviour.

 

For me its of interest how many people as a proportion are playing TSW3 and prior still, compared to TSW4. In my head, those are all players who could be playing TSW4 (having given DTG some cash for the privilege), but who are not. What a missed opportunity on many different levels- cash injection, franchise reputation, brand loyalty, cash, upward development curve (because that's what'll lure those people onwards and upwards), market domination, did I mention cash? Perhaps there's more than one way to make a ton of money with a product. Fat chance there though.
I want to be seduced by TSW, but at the moment its like being accosted by an under-dressed nightfighter wearing too much make up in an attempt to hide the mess underneath.. enough to make anyone run away and start looking for something thats going to scratch the itch without making one feel used in the process..
I think thats enough for now

 

Too bloody true!

 

Well, I personally stopped playing both TSW2 & TSW3 in July and August respectively and I haven't returned to them since, as I found a much more time consuming game to spend my time with, so I'm not on the graphs for either of the "editions".

I'll be probably back to TSW2 at end of year and to TSW3 when I get some more DLCs for it, as I have only 3 released after it, so there's still plenty of content to get, before I'd need to switch to TSW4, and this will probably happen during either autumn or winter sale or Festival of Rail next year. I could probably appear on TSW4 graphs the earliest in March or July next year, unless I'll still be playing other games more than Train Simulators.

 

I had fun today driving the Amtrak Cab car from Trenton to New York only to find my entry to NY Penn blocked by a string of stuck trains starting at the entrance to the yard, and I was the 16th train in the queue of stuckness. After this fail I took the time to drive a Class 700 from a siding into Peterborough. The packed train load of passengers must have been relieved to get off the train after a long night in the siding, so happy that they wouldn’t even have been bothered that we ran over and killed a passenger who was loitering on the track. On both trips I enjoyed my total score and my player level overlapping on the debrief screen due to a complete schoolboy error during the UI design process. It may be that they employ people who aren’t that bothered about their poor quality work that makes so many people turn their nose up at TSW.

I don’t know, I get my enjoyment out of it and DTG get my money but the level of incompetence isn’t something that everyone can put up with. Bugs are going to happen in games but a great deal of the issues in TSW aren’t bugs. I know the development is rushed but often it doesn’t take any longer to get something right as it does to get it wrong. Example below…

One good way of setting the driver camera height correctly in a US train or loco would be to put the sunshade down and see where the wipers clear rain off the screen and set the height so the driver’s view isn’t completely obscured by the shade and that the signals etc are not obscured by the parts of the screen the wipers don’t clear. That’s how I would do it but the devs at DTG do it by ensuring the driver can see lots of the track directly in front of the train, something which isn’t necessary, even if the necessary view is obscured by the other things. It’s almost as if they are doing it to ensure it enrages me. This isn’t a bug, it’s poor decision making and/or poor work. It’s things like this that tip people over the edge into not playing TSW.

Another quality play session in TSW.

 

I personally haven't got TSW4 yet and I honestly don't any urge to at the moment. I'm keeping a close eye on the JT content and will probably end up getting it at some stage but if I upgraded now I think I'd play the token ECML once or twice and just go back to older content at the moment as high speed running for that long doesn't interest me personally even with the addition of scotsman. That along with some of the issues the release has had on Xbox just hasn't really had me scrambling for TSW4.

Tbh I'm quite happy just sitting back smacking the 31 within an inch of its life on TVL atm But I am keeping an eye on future content and will probably pick it up in a sale where hopefully its a little more stable on Xbox

 

Tells a story..
Train Sim World® 4 Steam Charts · SteamDB

 

About the only thing likely to drag me back into TSW4 is the Blackpool route when it releases.

Just been having far too much fun in TSC, putting some Matrix/Gordon Mack LNER coaches behind the Victory K1 and ragging them across the superb Wycombe Joint Line, amongst others. At least I can put a buffet or restaurant car in the formation. Or catching up on the several Japanese routes in my collection and all the other goodies.

My last foray into TSW4 was the end of last week when I tried to finish a run on Vorarlberg. But another near silent EMU doing an all stations bus service that is even worse than SEHS and the dreaded Gillingham corner, as it just goes on km after km no more than 5 or 6 km without a stop.

With numbers down to those shown in the post above, notwithstanding other platforms than PC, DTG have some serious issues where TSW is concerned. Already pretty much made up my mind in the forthcoming sales not adding any more back catalogue content, will be fleshing out TSC a bit more. Even new stuff for TSW - and that includes Blackpool - I will be approaching with a deal of caution.

 

Once they have your money, they're not bothered whether you play it or not. In fact, the fewer people playing, the fewer complaints they're likely to get from people who feel they have a problem with it.

 

I purchased "4" for ECML only (no interest in the other two Routes) and what I'm doing is a run on each Route and if it works, then removing it from TSW2 or TSW3. The nice thing is you can always go back, as when TSW3 released a little over a year ago. Obviously I'll only be running NY-Trenton on TSW3, and any other Routes that break I can always re-install the older versions. Excited about Omskirk-Blackpool but will treat it with caution as well until it's proven to work.

Also using Bescot/Jetwash scenery mod, it's tolerable to look at.

 

I would like to revisit the title of this topic....

Quote from DTG's latest "Expansion Bundles" Dovetail Live Article:

"Purchase of any Train Sim World 4 edition is required to make use of these Expansion Bundles."

Enough is Enough!!!

I mean, every little DLC in these bundles are "TSW3 combatible".

 

And it's even more confusing on the Steam store - 4 "bundles" and one loco. the Acela, for TSW3 - but the base game TSW3 is not in the store.

 

Yes, the shine on TSW4 is rapidly wearing off for me.

I bought TSW4 largely for the updated NYT because I don't believe it will be ported to TSW3, but it's somewhat of a disappointment. Although the " fat " timetable works fine for me, the other issues on the route ( well- documented in other threads ) have not been addressed. And DTG have erased all the passengers, who are apparently afraid to disembark from the trains.

There's some enjoyment to be had with AVL, but the other two launch routes are snoozefests, frankly.

As an American, I usually don't get excited over upcoming UK dlc, especially in light of the dry, pedestrian fare we've been offered recently, but the Preston- Ormskirk route, with its era and stock, has piqued my interest.

That release may bring me back to the game from my current hiatus.

 

Yeah, theres not much else I can really do with TSW4 at this point.

Only thing Im looking forward to in the near future is the formation editor, since we dont have any route codes for any upcoming content.

 

Ooooo we’re losing momentum here, at this rate we’re never gonna make page 50.

 

Have faith Nockwurst. Have faith.

 

Part of the problem being that with the novelty of the new routes having rapidly worn off, TSW4 brings literally nothing to the back catalogue of content which for the most part plays and looks exactly the same as it did in TSW3 or even TSW2. It really has gone off the boil for me and I do regret my pre-release stance that it was going to be a worthy update. In fact the Emperor's New Clothes between TSW3 and TSW4 is worthy of what N3V pull every so often with "new" versions of Trainz which, under the hood, is just the same old game. I think I was seduced by the prospect of the editor but should have known better that we would actually get something you could dive straight into and start churning out routes.

 

I suppose we can continue to thread next year when they announce TSW5?

 

You know, TSW4 released a month ago.

Apart from a couple of Dresden and ECML services, and a little AVl exploration I haven't used the newer routes much.

I find myself going back to SEHS as it offers a little bit of everything.

Maybe in the future I will be more interested in the new stuff (the Blackpool route being top of the list).

 

.....which you could just as easily have played in that old, worthless and....erm...."obsolete" game which goes by the name of TSW3

 

I could, but then I wouldn't be able to use the Javelin as it crashed whenever I went through Stratford. I was also hyped for the ECML but it doesn't yet have the variety I look for.

The good thing is I got the Dresden route with TSW4, so given all the layers (albeit from older routes and locos which I have yet to get) that may now become my favourite along with the Blackpool route.

 

Sam (CF) was enjoying the Antelope route on Youtube, there's about half an hour of him getting stuck at the start due to red lights as the trains stack up around him. Comedy value due to his patter, but absent that it would be just be as frustrating as Stujoy's experience.

I am willing to stake money that Blackpool Preston will not come as a starter pack, but coincide with a sale on TSW4...

 

Don't worry, it is guaranteed to happen some day.

 

I think the fact that BPO was announced (or at least figured out) prior to TSW4 has slightly gone under the radar a bit. I'm not a big lover of older routes but I was really looking to that route living relatively locally (Wigan) and having gone to Blackpool on the train when I was a small kid in the late 80s. Having not bought TSW4 because I have no interest in it, it is a shame I'll probably not play it at least any time soon as I was under the impression it'd be a TSW3 release. Can't justify paying nearly £60 worth of game to be interested in 1 route.

 

For me TSW still is the best Rail simulator. The variety of Rolling stock grows maybe slower than in tsc, but it grows. Same for routes.

I read a lot of players are getting tired of this franchais, which is in my honest opinion not the fault of DTG. I can understand if somebody cant afford to have all dlcs, which makes this "hobby" kind of expensive.

When looking close, TSW offers a damn lot of things to do, not just with the trains it self, also in terms of gameplay. (I never played sim rail / run 8, i would guess its not any different there).
Just looking at the 24h timetable, you can either do just services from the menu or do multiple services in the game itself.
Yes everybody noticed that but still so many players get bored.
I decided to create my own gameplay style. I do only noHud, and combined my driving experience with route learning / making appendix documentations, do even services on real time, with weather conditions from my home location etc.
Other days i just do brake tests on a yard / depot. I completly got rid of caring about medals, which makes a whole new experience, focusing on the route, instead of a score.

For me Tsw is just fun and sandbox in the end. I like the "sarcastic fact" people complain to DTG about no manuals, but this way, you are inspired to do try things out, and to learn about the systems outside of tsw.

With many many years of experience in the real railway sector, it depends really mostly on your interest / vision, how far and where you get in this huge industry. If you wait for somebody showing you the path, you might end up doing the exactly same job until your retirement.

For me TSW is very relaxing, because the real daily work with trains is highly regulated and require a zero mistake policy.

So i recommend to players, not just focus on things a "route dlc" tells you to do. 99% of the fun is hidden when you go off path and start using your brain.

 

I would have liked the BPO as I'm old enough to remember going there on the steam train as a child when Blackpool central station was still open but I'm not parting with that kind of money for it.

 

Can someone explain the fascination with the timetable mode. You drive the route one way and then you drive it back again, then repeat. The only thing that changes is the clock!

 

Because it's as close as "real" train driving as most people are going to get.
It adds in variety with the lighting, and allows you to do back to back services. It's pretty much the only mode I play, and is the main reason to me personally why TSW is so much better than TSC.

 

Relaxing predictability?
Some find it immersive to pick services that cover a shift pattern, or mini shift. Eg bring the unit into service, run it outbound, do the return, have a break and do something similar again.
Let's face it, driving trains in a train sim is what it is. Some people like that, likely people who otherwise lead more stressful daily lives and who play to relax, railway enthusiasts or combinations thereof.

 

You effectively get 24 hours worth of scenarios with the ability to interact with a whole host of AI services (the timetable) that will appear in different locations, and with signals that may have different aspects, according to the clock. (I suppose you could start at the same point at 5 minute intervals throughout the day and every game-play would be slightly different to the previous one.....just like real life).
Then there are other AI services that only run in certain months of the year so the game-play would change again then too.

 

You drive the service, then leave the train which the AI goon takes over (when it works), you then walk around the station or yards and explore other trains. Maybe a shunting service is available, or you just overtake a freight service to the next station where you catch an ICE to be driven to .......... you get my point. You can pass the whole day doing this, by driving a large variety of services if the route has a smart timetable set.

I think that´s quite cool in TSW.

SKA, DRA, BRO, BML, TVL, NTP, .... just a few examples, are quite good for that matter.

Give it a shot!

 

I like it because it offers great variety for standard runs. In TSC you had like 8 scenarios for a route, then you were done. You can only replay those 8 runs, in the exact same time and setting, exact same AI traffic, unless you are willing to spens hours making new ones.

In TSW you can do a run any time of the day, in any season, in any weather. This means no two runs is exactly the same. You can also do just one, or keep going and do back and forth runs in one session.

So this virtually endless number of runs and variety is what makes TSW great.

 

You know, to me, that question sounds almost like you would ask: "what is so fascinating about driving passenger/commuter trains?"

Thanks to the timetable mode you can pretend you're a train driver going through your shift (or shifts) throughout the day. I really like to play it that way, especially on routes with some trains variety, like i.e. SEHS, HRR, MSB or Eastcoast Way (with 313 add-on), where you can ride the same (or almost) route in different type of train.

And if you play one session it timetable mode for some time, as a human you're probably not arriving to the stations precisely at scheduled time, it may result sometimes in some quite interesting situations where i.e. AI dispatcher will hold your train for some time to let through AI trains.

 

Since TSW4 you can schedule your own services between regular timetables. Like empty stock coaches movements.

Or simulate a service, which blocks the section (and piling up a.i), so the player has to rescue the failed train.

 

Sounds like a PRO for TSW4 on an otherwise lengthy CON list. Sometimes I like to create mayhem.

 

For me the "hype" around TSW4 is gone too. I find myself coming back to the same routes everytime. I only play German content and at the moment I mainly play Dresden-Riesa or Bremen-Oldenburg. I just cannot really enjoy the older non TOD4 routes anymore as - compared to the new routes - the Lighting just looks horrible. Oh and don't forget newer rolling stock lighting up the whole of Germany on the older routes too. For me the free roam mode is definitely the best thing about TSW4. I often find myself shunting together some coaches and hooking up a 110 or 103 in front and doing a railtour service. But even that, without being able to actually select stops at stations its just kinda "boring". I always have to guess which station I wanna stop at in the interactive map, select a Go-To there and well. Drive there. But I never 100% know if its the station I actually want to go to as theres no name/marking on the map. Oh well. I'd love to set a proper service and then just driving it via my own created timetable for this particular drive.

But what really kills it for me are the many many bugs that are either there from release on and never fixed or also bugs that got introduced with TSW4 and weren't there in 3. And I'm speaking about super obvious stuff that you will see in 5 mins of playtime. Or bugs from some specific systems that work in other locos and then in a newer release its not working as it should, even if its the same system.
So for example lets say that with 95% of German content the PZB indicators are working correctly. Now we get a new released loco and suddenly the 1000Hz influence yellow indicator doesn't light up when acknowledging it, but the 85 blinks. This is absolutely basic stuff that should just work with every train. They updated the 103 and 110 with TSW4. Now, the 103 afaik didn't have the correct 500Hz influence "wechselblinken" back in TSW3. Now they've fixed it, but guess what? Now everytime you are under a 1000Hz influence it goes straight into "wechselblinken" instead of being a lit up yellow indicator coupled with a blinking 85/70/55. Oh and btw, we can also drive the 110/103 even if the reverser is in the neutral position.
Or lets talk about the with TSW4 newly introduced wrong backmarker signals on the KaKo cabcar in Bremen-Oldenburg. Or the PIS of said cabcar being broken since release. At first it kinda worked but was not synchronized regarding to what you selected and what was shown. Then a patch came out and since then its synchronized (yay!!) but now it just resets back to a blank page after maybe a minute or so of it being set.
Or lets talk about the super bright backmarker lights on the BRO BR425. Just dial down the intensity emissiveness in the editor and it would be fixed... But nothing happens. I think I've created like 3 support tickets since today about that specific problem and everytime you get the same "thanks for the feedback, the team will look into it" response. But nothing ever happens. And lets not talk about the countless forum posts complaining as well.
I could go on and on. Or why do some trains have dimmable indicators, others dont? Or changeable contrast on the displays. Or sometimes only 1 out of 3 displays has a brightness button that actually does something.
Some locos are not driveable from cab 2. Other have barely visible gauges when you are at night and turn on the instrument lighting. Other locos have 5 iterations in the game, where the first is absolutely ***** and the latest is perfectly fine.
To combat many problems they should do it like this: have a base loco/train that will always get the latest updates and then on a per-route basis have a skin for it. This skin would include the correct markings for the route and other smaller details. That way you'd have the fitting train for a route and at least some of the issues would be fixed for all trains if there was a newer iteration. But yeah, thats never gonna happen as it would be too deep of a core change.
To sum it up I just absolutely despise the lack of consistence in rolling stock quality and also routes.

DTG JD DTG Matt

 

Exactly this for me. I like I can just choose any service at any time, on any routes I have and not think about it much. Where as on TSC would have to find scenarios and things, so it has a huge convenience factor