personally I start to think the only reason they did this was because they wanted to give us the Brusio viaduct which is a spectacular thing. They certainly have considered doing St. Moritz-Poschiavo again, but thought we would be happier having these parts in game
That and the street running sections but... to me when you hit that first gradient climbing out of Morterasch onto the high ground is an abiding memory of travelling over the route. And Pontresina is such a hub for the line it really cannot be ignored. It would be like doing the West Highland extension from Mallaig but terminating the route at Lochailort, to avoid having to do the more complex locations at Corpach and Fort William.
Definitely! Also the sections where you can travell faster would have been very nice! I think the small section to Pontresina would be perfect to have the route almost complete but with reasonable start and end
QUOTE="Tom Fresco, post: 749447, member: 23821"]While i somewhat understand the criticism regarding the lenght and end point, i think it showed that building longer routes isnt rivets thing yet.[/QUOTE] Then choose another route to build? lol I can just repeat myself, having a service end halfway in the middle of the route is just very unsatisfying and immersion breaking. It was in TSC as well, but even more so in TSW, where you can do things like setting up and shutting off the train on the start and end of the service. For this reason I prefer to buy routes that are actually end to end. I do agree that I need to correct myself, I don't expect the route to go to Chur. I don't know the area that well and mistakenly though that St. Moritz statison is in Chur. That really is an unreasonable request in TSW standards, but going to St. Mortz where the line actually ends would be pretty understandable I think. Even if it meant an extra half year in production, at the end the finished route would be something you can properly build on. More rolling stock, etc. But what can you do with a half finished route in the future? Not much...
Do Rivet do anything that is logical? I would happily pay a lot more for the new Just Trains route which looks impressive with their attention to detail. The Rivet route in total length at the moment is not even worth £15, so will not be a first time buy for me, if at all. It will have to be value for money so its a sale price for me, when it’s 40 or 50% off. If it’s anything like previous Rivet routes it will be poor. Just Trains have raised the standards, that I believe Rivet won’t be able to match.
in that case I can see coming cryings for the last kilometrs to St. Moritz. Overall would be nice to hear from Rivet games: - what reasons lead to this selection of route part and why ending at Ospizio (time, money, rest of no interest,...) - if they are planing (or better already building) a extension to Pontresina or St. Moritz / or not.
I wonder what is the obsession with routes in the Swiss Mountains. Sure they are pretty, but scenery isn't the only thing that makes a route good. I remember seeing a video on Cane Creek which was sold on it's "good scenery" but from what I've saw and based off of reviews, it wasn't well received
Hi folks, finally got my answers together. Again, many thanks for the feedback so far – we want to address a few of your comments here: Why not the full route? There are a couple reasons for that, but most important: We always have to figure out what scope makes sense for a given time slot – and since we wanted to make sure the alpine scenery is as stunning as the original, we decided to spent more time there. We also choose this section as we think it’s the more interesting one, with end-to-end driving time being over an hour this is also a good length to enjoy (we think). Request stops? Yes, but same as on Arosa, they're not functional because that simply doesn't work with the current state of how the timetable in the core game works. Baggage coach? That one slipped through our notes, we're looking at replacing the wagon with a regular EW1 coach. Thanks for the headsup! (Background info: Apparently this coach isn't allowed on the Bernina Line) Safety systems? Yes, we've got our ZSI version into the core game with this release, SiSte is also featured. Announcer implementation? We've extended the functionality of our auto announcer system from Edinburgh - Glasgow: It's now announcing stations fully automaticly. Besides that, it also plays welcome messages and custom announcements when passing remarkeable spots along the route - all of that in 3 languages. Hope that answers the most urgent questions, shout if there's something else you'd like to know.
Appreciate the response Jasper but I'm afraid speaking for myself, just doing part of what should be a complete experience from St Moritz to Tirano makes it a "no purchase" for me (until and unless it gets heavily discounted in a future Steam sale). Omitting Pontresina excludes one of the key operational centres and major depot of the line if we are discussing interest and we do have a reasonably working save game now so concerns over total driving time should, frankly, be irrelevant as you can save and resume later. I really still think you should look at pulling this back and going the extra distance, at least to Pontresina, to give a more complete experience. Or give an undertaking this will be Version 1 of the route and there will be a Version 2 later which adds the missing section (maybe Pontresina to Samedan too) and the electric railcoaches that predated the Allegras. Very disappointed.
Can you say something about the EW1's sounds, will it be improved or will it stay the same as on Arosa?
As long as it looks good and plays well, I'm happy we are getting that specific section. Looking forward to the developments
Hi Jasper, I would like to ask you about the announcements on the Bernina Line. Will they be the original RhB ones or not? BTW. from the screenshots I have to admit you guys did such a great work on the scenery. I have been on the line a few months ago and everything is spot on.
The won't be the original RhB ones, but we've replicated them as close as possible, with only the voices being different and a handful of minor changes (for example there's one station with two tracks where the train would announce a side to get off in real life, but we can't get data on where the platform is, so we simplified the announcement a bit). Thanks for the flowers, much appreciated!
Hey Jasper, looking forward for the new EW1 coaches sounds, but how about physics for the GE 4/4? And a final question is, where did you guys get the sound for Allegra? Thank you!
Ooh, now that sounds interesting! Though personally I think the sounds weren't the worst offender on the route, but glad to hear they are getting improved anyway. Any other improvements to Arosa alongside this?
I would like to know what the exact name of the freight wagons that are included are? So that I can google them and know how exactly these ones look And something to add (just gonna copy paste it from the Rivet forum): -Is there a possibility to have some people standing around in gardens, streets, balconies, etc.? Because after watching a cab ride I noticed how much it adds to realism if there is a human somewhere- makes the route feel more alive! And even if there are only two or three in the gardens and on the paths around Tirano, it would add a lot! And regarding realism: Is there ambient sound? Please XD
I would give this route a chance. The TSC portion of this route is stunning, and by the pictures posted here, the TSW4 version will look spectacular. Also almost the entire route has a grade of 7.0%, extremely fun during descent with some bad wheatear to make the tracks slippery. I will preorder this, Rivet don't screw this up please.
There where a few DLC's / content that where so interesting to me that I have preordered them for example TSW3 and 4 , SEHS when it first came out, never regretted my choices. Now I bashed Rivet a lot for Arosa and they made some bad choices with other routes to but I do feel the good in this one and unless something seriously bad happens until close to release (Allegra bad sounds, broken physics etc) I will pre order it as a show of good fate.
Yeah. Arosa would really deserve better. I wonder how much effort it would take to redo the mountains with LIDAR on an already exsisting route? Despite LIDAR import being mostly automated I assume, making it match with the exsisting scenery might be troublesome. But I think it would be something worth the effort.
You'd basically have to completely remake the route. It would change the scenery around the track and other objects, and they would all need to be moved and edited.
Considering the current terrain should already be close to real elevation, why would you need to redo the whole route? Sure, you would have to check alongside the whole route for sunken object and such and redo some terrain work around the track where it is problematic, but I wouldn't say it equals to redoing the whole route from scratch. Or one thing I could imagine would be more feasable is to import LIDAR terrain to only replace the distant distant mountain sides, but leave the terrain untouched around the track and trackside scenery.
Because the accuracy difference between what is currently there, and what is present in LIDAR is massive. Whole parts of the track could be under the ground, or floating above it, or clipping sideways into hillsides. Accuracy and alignment could be off by over a meter. It's like trying to line up a pair of glasses or a nose piercing on a high poly CGI film face, compared to a minecraft face.
I don't see that happening from Rivet as they likely wouldn't make any extra $$ from doing so. Hopefully the editor gets to the point some enterprising modders can do it
Depends. I assume many people skipped Arosalinie due to the ugly mountains. But imagine if it got updated - especially now, when they release the aggregates car pack. Buyers of the Bernina line might also be more likely to buy Arosa if they have not done yet, as they would have another route to play with the Allegra on - something which I doubt many people will do now, because who would want to drive between the ugly clay mountains of Arosa when you have the high definition landscape of Bernina? I couldn't go back to Arosa after playing Bernina, that's for sure. So updating Arosa could give the route fresh life, which in turn might bring in more sales, both for the route and for the rolling stock packs as well.
After experiencing the joy of what JT just delivered with BPO, only serves to highlight how pitiful this proposed part route from Rivet is.
If an 45km long route (1 hour plus journey) that climbs up the Alps to over 2000m thought absolutely stunning Swiss and Italian landscape with one of the most modern trains available is pitfull I am quite sad honestly. Also while JT route is well done it might not be everyone's cup of tea to. Jasper_Rivet when că se expect some more pictures or even a trailer please ?
Maybe pitiful was too strong a word, but I still maintain the route needs to go all the way to St Moritz for me to consider this as anything other than a heavily discounted sale purchase. Sorry, just how I feel about the situation, regardless of how spectacular the line might be and how I would love to see it in the game.
You where a little bit harsh but I also understand your point of view regarding the length. I usually also favour longer routes that have some logic to the start and end point but here I can make an exception The reason is that the route can be quite demanding to make due to terrain and scenery and even more, in TSC you need two separate DLC to reach the length proposed in TSW. So I would say that length in TSW4 while short overall is still a big improvement over TSC. Maybe if Bernina is successful they will add the rest of the route to Moritz as extension or Dlc.This is my opinion concerning length while I also agree with your point of view I hope they add more Swiss rail traction to be similar to the ones available in TSC, layer those in and you get quite and interesting timetable. I asked for new pictures , and if you have a link for a trailer for Bernina please post it here.
Old Vern, I completely agree with you. I am not happy too, that this wonderful route is being replicated by Rivet for TSW. Rivet produced Poschiavo to Tirano for TSC because Thomson interactive had previously produced St. Moritz to Poschiavo. Jasper, I too am very disappointed, like so many others are, about the length of route. I would also like to see Pontresina to Tirano, but not at all surprised as Rivet rarely make sense of what they do. Pontresina would make more sense as it is sometimes used as a tourist stopover point. I just hope that this route is displayed accurately, as WCL was a totally disgraceful effort, as St. Ives was displayed as it looked in the seventeenth century and is an insult to Cornish residences and should be renamed West Corny Local. Rivet’s attempt at portraying St. Ives and Penzance was like doing Sydney Harbour without the Opera House and Bridge or New York without the Statue of Liberty and the Empire State. Rivet made a reasonable attempt of the Bernina for TSC so I hope they don’t mess it up for TSW. Jasper, Just Trains have produced a first class route released earlier this week which has raised the bar of production to a very new high level, please don’t release your half version of the Bernina until you have reached the same level with it. Like Old Vern, I won’t waste money buying it on Steam, but I will use an xbox gift card to have a look at it, as l have nothing else l need to use it for and have sufficient for a few more purchases. As for your latest creation, there are a lot of cab ride videos available on You Tube, which I hope you will use them to perfect your creation. I have travelled on the Bernina Express, the last time a few years ago and from the photo of Tirano Station Square whilst your effort looks good, please look carefully at Google Maps to the right to ensure your final release is as accurate. See photos above. Also, as a fellow poster rightly pointed out, the red house roofes shown in your picture at the Brusio Spiral Viaduct, the houses nearby are incorrectly arranged and do not have red roofs, so please amend to get it right. See photos above. Please take some pride in getting these scenes and the whole route as well looking right and accurate. Before release make sure you have a beta tester who lives on the line and can point out your inaccuracies. Rivet finally, please give people what they want! A longer route than you are planning and a very accurate creation. If you cannot do that, then please don’t bother designing it. I just wish Just Trains had produced WCL and a few other feeble creations of Rivets. Bernina Express is a travel experience in a class of its own. Please do better this time and get it right.
You want them to make the colours of the roofs right, but all you provide is a heavily colour graded picture? That's not helping at all.
They can't just drop a project if they are unable to meet expectations. They have already chosen the endpoints and it's probably going to release soon
nwp1 I know, that was probably me. At the moment I'm not getting the right vibe. In reality I don't see a house with a black or red roof. At least the general color choice should be right, right? Not every house has to be perfect or right, but what if the landscape is completely different?!
I too feel a bit depressed at the route length. I am not hyped. I want to be, but I am not. I have no great faith, either, that the physics and audio will be up to the level one would wish. All in all a strange sensation. But who knows maybe it will be ok. But for me Rivet and the sensation of disappointment are too often in close proximity. Surprise us by spoiling us Rivet, please.
