Will There Ever Be Any "amazing" Us Routes?

2 major misses in the past would be.....

-Ardent Mills in San Bernardino on Cajon Pass (Player could take a grain train there, cut the train up, then have another locomotive (Ardent Mills IRL has their own loco they lease) unload the cars before rebuilding then sending it back east)

-Vulcan Materials in Sun Valley on Antelope Vallety (Player takes a loaded rock train at night from Palmdale to Sun Valley, unloads it, then sends it back empty.)

 

More like saying Austria is Germany. Next door, same language, very similar rail operations and rolling stock.

 

Of course, in some sense, what makes a route amazing is subjective, and that is how you have framed your question. However, it is my position, and I think the the general theme of this and other threads, that US routes are objectively different, and less than, others.

For example, we can consider SEHS. Sure it had the 465 DLC. But that wasn't good enough, as stated by DTG. So it got ToD4, the 66 and 465 included, a vastly improved timetable with AI, the RHTT and 37/7 packs, random cats, all kinds of great stuff. It took a while but that route is now amazing because of the work that went into it.

LBN hasn't been improved in the same way, but an interested player can do it themselves by acquiring all the layers. So, amazing can be something that's available if you want it. Not to mention that some TLC has been done with the added freight runs and wagons.

DRA comes with everything you need out of the box. It has additional services through layers. Then is got its own ToD4 update and the Vectron on top of that. What can we say about Meissen? We can say that two people cared enough to finish that part of the route. So, to make something amazing, sometimes people have to go above and beyond. In somewhat the same sense, BPO and NID are super-detailed (per reports, I don't own either of these). This takes longer, but others state that these routes are so derailed that they are amazing.

What US routes have gotten this treatment? We can say that BPE got ToD4, the Acela, and that someone cared enough to improve the signals. Whether or not that makes it amazing, it stands alone in that regard.

LIRR: empty timetable. One DLC that doesn't add services. The signals are broken which prevents improvements. The signals will not be fixed.

HAR: No DLC or anything else to add to the experience. The experience was actually mildly degraded when PTC was "standardized."

CRR, CC, HSC, SHM: No DLC. Some livery packs are available. The quality of those has been questioned.

CJP: Two loco packs. One is anachronistic. The other one promised services and enhancements that never materialized.

NYT: Still an unfinished product. Would an attempt to make improvements even have been made if not for immense pushback?

With US routes I don't see the work, the time, the caring, when I make these comparisons. That is why they are not amazing. I buy mostly German and some UK stuff now, when I buy anything at all. Perhaps this content is not meant for me, because players are demanding more frequent, less involved routes. I don't know. But if you care about making US routes that ARE amazing, that is my take on it. Thanks for asking.

 

I’ll make it brief to the point.
good busy timetable with mix traffic.
Good scenery
Good working signaling
Freight option with in cab signaling

actually right now as I type this I’m currently playing the New Haven line on TSC. This DLC has it all freight, M2/M4 add on,freight services.one of the routes which I wish had a timetable available.
LIRR was a big missed opportunity which could had been great but just an empty route full of missed opportunities. NYT is heading in the right direction but is taking far to long to get there.

 

I would suggest some things I would see a good freight route being;

-Multiple branches
-Varying and accurate scenery
-Multiple trains available for use, multiple liveries/operators also
-Options for passenger to run the line
-Engaging Interactive elements (I thought the fuel loading on Oakville was quite stand out as an example)
-Not too slow, try to get at least an average speed for most of it at 35-40mph
-probably looking at total length being at least about 50 miles +
-single and double track areas.
-busy large yard/s
-busy timetable
-off world Ai
-industrial areas like chemical plants or refineries

 

Note that one of the best-received scenarios ever was Peak Forest's pickup and dropoff run. I should also give props to RSN's great integration of industrial deliveries and shunting the same wagons.

Although shunting per se may not be everyone's cup of tea, having it present can provide either a change of pace, or simply add AI life to a route. The MP15 keeps SFJ interesting just by doing its AI thing, even if the player doesn't feel like shoving coaches around themself. Big yards with no rolling stock are bad; big yards with only static rolling stock are almost as bad.

• In general, variety is the spice of life. Commuter AND express passenger AND through freight AND local freight AND industrial and/or yard work, with multiple locos and the expected US kaleidoscope of freight-car paint jobs. The routes I find myself going back to are the ones with lots going on; the ones I rarely launch are the one-trick ponies.

<Now, if only you could get that Metra licence...>

Oh, on sound: tunnel and bridge reverb, pleeeez? It was done on Sand Patch, so I know it's possible. And- this is imperative on US routes - for the love of God give us realistically bright headlights.

Incidentally, doing an Amtrak Genesis with a tail of Superliners as a DLC, designed to layer into most US routes where Amtrak runs (with Amfleets instead as appropriate), would be a tremendously useful asset, where trying to make it a route focus wouldn't make sense given the low schedule density

 

WRT speed: to me, running freight for 25 miles at 25 mph, or for 60 miles at 60 mph, are much of a muchness. Except the sightseeing is better at 25.

 

Yes, cargo load and unload is one of the best fun in game besides driving. Makes you feel like you are actually achieving something useful. Or at least picking up cars from an actual location other than taking a manifest from one yard to another.

Also, one big issue that pretty much every US route in the game has is big, empty and underdetailed yards. They look just like model railroad tracks placed alongside each other. Not fun in arriving them or shunting around in when they look so horrible.

 

I still say a Pacific Surfliner route running from LA to Oceanside with Amtrak Surfliner equipment as default stock, with layered in BNSF and Metrolink services along that line. UP for AI traffic at Redondo Junction, (Though you could add switching services to their 6th Street Yard across the LA river from Amtraks yard.) Just make sure the scenery isn't trash and you have a good setup for a decent route. There is even some industry along the line to service. If you can even make working intermodal yards, thats even better due to Hobart.

It has the most potential of hitting every mark. With lots of room for DLC's (Such as Amtrak LD stuff, Metrolinks MP36, BNSF Mainline freight etc.) And I mentioned it before but it can even mark the return of the SW1000R.

 

Accuracy to the prototype.

This takes many, many forms, but at the end of the day, does it look like the real thing? Does it behave like the real thing? If the answers to those questions are yes, then it's an amazing route. But getting to yes is a high bar. We're talking about, at minimum:

• Scenery and landmarks
• Locomotives and rolling stock
• Physics
• Timetable
• Signalling/dispatching
• Pathing
• Platform assignments

Take NYT, for example. I think it's a great route, because it's my home turf and I think much of the simulation is excellent. But it's not AMAZING, because:

• The south-of-Newark Airport scenery is brilliant, but the reused portions are laughably bad in places (way too many catenary posts around the Airport, clipping of assets in Penn, no ability to move between platforms at Newark except by walking across the tracks, nonexistent NY skyline, etc.)
• The locomotives and stock that are present are done well, but it still looks very little like the real-life line because so much NJT variety is absent (not to mention freight)
• Cab signaling doesn't work prototypically, extra frustrating because we know from Boston that accurate implementation is possible
• As great as the new timetable is, there are still some not-prototypical compromises in track routing and platform assignment

If I can point at something in the game and say "that's not how it works in real life," AND I know that the game engine allows for better implementation, then the route isn't amazing.

 

For me the amount of rolling stock included locos/passenger cars/ freight cars the level of scenery both close up and distant and amount of gameplay included are the things that I look for and keep me coming back in a US route

 

As long as said US practices aren't mistakenly imported into non-US routes...

 

US/Canadian routes definitely need a "guru". I think DTG actually does a surprisingly good job on them considering all of the devs are on the other side of the ocean it seems and don't have as much knowledge of the US.

That said the UK and German side seems to have some real wizards who are obsessed with getting things right and have the knowledge to do so. Not to say all UK and German content is perfect but it does tend to have a more polished feel, especially German.

 

An amazing route for me would be one with incredible attention to detail. And this is something that would come with a team dedicated to US DLC or maybe even a US based team, who can be local and constantly trackside on the particular route being developed. This along with correct representation. Correct trains for that territory, signal system, industries (that are properly modeled and offer the user the experience of actually being able to use them, like the Vulcan Rock plant on Antelope Valley that Blacknred81 has mentioned.) DLC offered for the route is correct. Properly modeled, accurate sounds, these are all immersion killers if they're not done correctly. A route with good variety, that offers an even mix of both freight and passenger service. As far as Southern California goes, the only one that comes to mind for me would be something like the BNSF San Bernardino Sub that runs from Hobart-San Bernardino via Fullerton with the passenger services starting a short distance away at Los Angeles Union Station. This route EASILY offers the best mix of both. There are tons of BNSF freights per day over the route of variety. Intermodal, mixed freight, oil trains, locals. Then a nice mix of passenger trains. Metrolink operates over the line to Riverside and further on to Perris, although I'd expect a route like this to end at San Bern. Granted there's not as many trains as what's on Antelope Valley, but they're still there. Since Metrolink DLC is already complete, it would be an easy layering. LA Union Station is also already modeled. Amtrak's Southwest Chief would operate the entire length of the route as well. It would really be a freight route that has a focus on some passenger operation. But it would be more than 1 passenger service each way. I don't want to detract from the question though and offer a route suggestion. This was just an example of what a good US route would offer. I think it would be beneficial to have a team dedicated to US DLC though, specifically ones who are familiar with it. And for what it's worth, with how much work was put into the Metrolink DLC, I would love to see some more DLC related to it sometime down the road.

The only problem with this is the freight option is rather limited. It would only be from Hobart to Fullerton which is, at most, 30 minutes. The other freight runs from Orange (coming off the Olive and San Bernardino subs) to San Diego and on this route, it would end at Oceanside. And those freights are very limited too. One in each direction, usually daily, and late at night because of all the passenger trains. There's also autorack trains, too but those aren't scheduled, however run pretty common. The Pacific Surfliner route really is solely a passenger commuter route with poor freight layering because there just isn't much of it. Metrolink and Amtrak rule this route.

This said, this is probably one of the routes I've been most hopeful for since TSW came about. Not to mention it is probably the most requested passenger route over and over again. It would likely be one of the most successful US DLCs for TSW. Of course, I've mentioned my desire to see the northern route LA-Goleta (although it would probably end at Oxnard as you suggested and makes the most sense based on DTGs track record with creating routes. I think a 3rd party dev would be more likely to tackle the whole thing.) I only hope for this because it's never been done before in any train sim. But, I digress.

 

Also, it is technically possible to run a Metrolink MP36 right now and I do it often on Antelope Valley. We really need a proper Metrolink MP36 though that's redone and not the reused Caltrain one as there are several differences. The sounds could also use a refresh.

 

A few random thoughts that came in last night while waiting for sleep to arrive.

First one is… transit. Now Matt has already discussed why NYC Subway will be unlikely to ever appear but does that rule out similar operations in other cities? Washington DC, Baltimore, the Chicago “El” and at the risk of upsetting our parochial friend again the Toronto Subway which looks very similar to NYC. If line of sight running could be embraced then you have SF Muni, San Diego Trolley or the Calgary system.

Then still on the subject of transit (ish), routes like LIRR or the MN Harlem Line are crying out to be extended. In fact, this is a common theme with most of the North American routes in the game, with the exception maybe of CJP and AVL they are all a bit short. I know extensions are kind of a taboo subject and there are both marketing and logistical issues, but I do believe this is an area where DTG should learn from Run 8 and start building on the existing routes rather than another quickfire new 40 or 50 mile effort. So Cajon should get Tehachapi bolted on, Clinchfield get an extension etc. Oakville already discussed so if Matt can get the passenger stuff working throw it back to the route team and task them with taking it into Toronto Union and across to Niagara Falls. I’d buy that as a new title. Oakville 2.0.

Amtrak long distance has been touched upon and certainly west of Chicago, stops can be many miles apart so the only way to accommodate that is a route which can be progressively extended.

 

This screenshot looks great. With an MP36 set the route would be quite interesting.

Also, this screenshot is the perfect example of what is wrong with US scenery. Distant fields and mountains look good, while the area close to the tracks is completely empty with no detail. Just look at how ugly that trackbed is... Same issue on Cajon Pass, Sherman Hill and Cane Creek. Nice distant scenery, but the tracks which you spend 100% of your time on, are empty and underdetailed.

 

This is an excellent post with valid points. I think we have given lots of feedback and information months and months prior to a release, but it all seemed to go nowhere. It's hard to figure DTG out on this. I believe we have enough US players here that are willing and do give lots of inputs. I do give them credit for going back to NYT DLC and redoing the timetable. It still has lots of issues but I'm hopeful one day it can get all issues sorted out. Routes like LIRR which is supposed to be the busiest north Americas busiest railway do need to be looked over and given a proper do over. There's plenty new changes that has happened since the route was released that can be implemented on a new LIRR route. I don't think we can moved forward on US routes until we fix the issues we currently have with US DLC's. Now I know it has to make sense for DTG to do so. Adding loco DLC would probably help fund some of the work that the Harlem's,LIRR,NYT, Peninsular corridor, and Boston, needed to help these routes better and more inline with the Uk and German content. I haven't forgotten about my US freight fans, I can't really give much feedback just not my expertise. I'll leave that to Blacknred81 who has excellent knowledge that DTG should listen too. I have tried to give lots of feed back on US passenger routes and will continue to do so. I think the future for US content looks promising

 

I assume trackside scenery like this is hard to pull of, due to it being basically just nothing. It's easier if you have at least foliage or fences up close to the tracks that you can model easily.

The biggest problem on this MP36 screenshot is the trackbed. It is completely different color from the terrain texture underneath, also sticks out like model railway tracks placed on the floor.

For starters, the terrain textures (and their material reflectiveness values) should match the terrain ballast texture underneath.
I assume it could also help if maybe the track 3D models would feature flatter and wider ballast shapes? So it blends in more with the surrounding terrain, not sticking out that much.
Also, I believe Cane Creek did it where small random stones were scenery brushed around like grass, so it wasn't just the empty terrain texture around the tracks, but some 3D stones as well, which gave the barren terrain at least some dept and detail.

 

Weeds and stones are definitely needed, maybe some trash cause I doubt it's kept that pristinely tidy.

 

Agreed, though it's not the worst. When it comes to repeating textures, I think the trackbed is a worse offender - and that is a problem on most routes, honestly.

Sadly on many assets the texture repeat is very obvious. But there are routes where the track looks good! Should check what the difference is and eliminate the obviously repeating textures.

Anyway, glad to hear this is being looked into. I do hope you guys can make some progress regarding these issues.

 

I actually would like to see more retro classic US routes in TSW 70s 80s 90s etc older locomotives General Electric UBoats C30 ~ 7B36 7 B23 7 u30 c u 23b etc EMD GP40 2 from new haven route make a comeback SD GP 9sSD45 also retro paint schemes Chessie System Burlington Northern SouthernRY Conrail SantaFe Blue and yellow Southern pacific . Rio Grande i saw Saluda Grade on TSC i would loeve to see that come to TSW im console only no desire or knowledge of PC not into mods updating drivers nor money to afford mac daddy PC to get best ofvthe best

 

This thread is giving me a little bit of hope, actually. Agree it's a good thing to keep the conversation going.

Agree with above posters on lack of line-side detail being especially notable on US freight routes.

It's a challenging scene to set, because there's a balance to be struck between operational visibilty/highlighting the spectacular distant scenery (the entire point of some routes tbh) and realism.

A lot of territory on these routes is just wilderness on a scale that doesn't really exist in the UK. Especially in environments like SPG, HSC, and Clinchfield, the tracks aren't easily accessible and it can be hard to keep the undergrowth cut back any further than the actual right of way. You really can't OVERestimate the amount of groundcover in Pennsylvania/Maryland in the spring/summer. I think leaning into this would be a good step.

There's a section on Blackpool South branch where it feels really claustrophobic due to how close in to the tracks the trees get- that's the feeling i'm looking for in more spots in the US (Clinchfield actually does a good job of this, it's just let down by the overly dark lighting). I feel that would make the truly spectacular views pop even more in contrast.

Urban routes like NYT have a different issue- they're WAY too clean and quiet. Look at the image below- the track ballast is pristine, and there's not one piece of trash, no discarded ties, no rusting out chain-link fences, etc etc. They've been running many trains over this section for well over a hundred years- it needs wear and tear!



Contrast again to BPO, where they really nailed the grime and age of the scenery where appropriate.

Soundscape- cities and suburban sprawl are loud! If you stand on a platform on NYT in TSW, and there's no train in the scene, it's practically silent.

I realize there's sound channel limitations in UE, but there should be: more noticable ambient traffic noise, punctured by EMS sirens from time to time, construction/demolition noises in developing areas, industrial noises especially closer to the ports, boats and ships, helicopters, and especially in NYC-area almost constant commercial air taking off/landing/circling waiting for a slot.

Anyway, that was a lot, i'm sure i'll have more stuff come to mind.

EDIT: typos

 

As someone who photographs on the Harlem, LIRR and New York-Trenton line as well as riding and knowing much about those 3 lines, I think I could be of great help in improving those lines as well as anything else in the New York-New Jersey metropolitan area that DTG has planned.

I'm sure the beta team could always use more help and you don't even have to pay me. I'm offering my knowledge and services on behalf of the players.

 

It's definitely fun getting to switch between the F125 and the MP36 on certain runs. It adds an extra level of realism. It's also fun running the different equipment, specifically the Bombardier cabcar. Those ruled Metrolink until 2012. My very first memories of riding Metrolink were around 1999 boarding a train at Via Princessa as a kid with these types of cars (the Bombardier in my screenshot) and an F59PH (or PHI) locomotive. Of course nowadays, it's all long gone but the MP36s are all still around as well as 5 F59PHs. It would be great to see a refreshed or remade MP36 that's specific to Metrolink as, like I said above, there are some slight differences from the Caltrain one. And as I also mentioned, the sounds could use a redo as well. For starters, a louder interior horn from inside the cab as well as airbrake sounds when you use the brake handle. The sounds on the F125 are spot on and I love that it actually does have airbrake sounds which is something missing occasionally on other US DLC. If a remade MP36 could get redone to 2023 DTG standards, as in how well the Metrolink trainsets are, I think it could be really amazing. Running the MP36 on the route now is fun but it's not completely compatible with the Rotem cars as the dynamic brakes don't work at all from the cabcar, which is all but necessary on this route, especially between Lancaster-Vista Canyon. I'm sure it's down to some weird coding thing but a new MP36 could solve this.

The addition of the formation designer soon will also help in being able to create more prototypical consists. Most Metrolink consists include Rotems and Bombardier coaches and a lot of the time, an MP36. For now though, running the community creation of the Metrolink consist like in my screenshot is still fun.

I'm glad I could help, Matt. It's also a showcase of the untapped potential of additional Metrolink DLC. While I'm thankful we have some community repaints of the Caltrain Baby Bullet to create the Metrolink MP36 and Bombardier cars, I'd look forward to seeing a refreshed version that's specific to Metrolink.

Btw DTG Matt I've sent you a DM regarding extra beta testers.

 

I, for one, would love the San Diego Trolley.

 

I can't be the only who would actually love to see this

 

Would love to see a demonstrator from DTG on what can be done with an existing route. Prove that truly high quality US content can be made and use that to build enthusiasm for new routes and/or heavily improved existing routes:

NY-Trenton: this is the premier railway route in the US. It’s busy, famous and passes through one of the most economically productive regions in the world. This should be a flagship product and a staple in the TSW franchise like BML or the Dresden routes.

The scenery needs heavy improvement for accuracy and thoroughness, fix all known bugs/flaws and test everything until it’s perfected. Make this route closer to real life. Make this a route to be proud of and communicate/promote these improvements to customers once it’s truly complete and has been tested thoroughly.

With this, a product that has received heavy criticism can be turned into one that would help restore customer interest for DTG products and demonstrate what DTG can do with US content. Use those lessons to guide future releases, always with the goal of improving with every new product. Customers will see that and reward DTG with purchases.

In the case of something like Long Island: once Trenton has been done and precedent has been set, take the existing LIRR off the market, give the existing route an extensive redo: update the route to the present day (East Side Access & Third Track), busy timetable, detailed scenery overhaul, lighting, maybe an extension, relaunch it and sell the Mark II version as a new product. But of course, if it’s going to be sold as a new product, it’d have to be done at a high standard. An upgrade discount could be offered to those who already own the existing route.

 

Well said and I completely agree with this. The same energy and attention to detail that was poured into routes such as Preston Black pool should be the standard when it comes not only to US routes but to every route in general. It would also be great to see LIRR more accurately represented. I believe at the time when LIRR came out, somewhere around 2018, when the M3 soon released, there was discussion about improving the timetable but due to limitations or something with the coding of the signals, the line was pretty much a ghost town. Time to revisit America's busiest passenger railroad and give it the TLC it deserves. As someone from the tri state area, I would really like to see all passenger US content in the northeast be revamped or given a little TLC as there is definitely untapped potential in TSW.

 

Of course now the editor's out anyone can give making a new timetable for LIRR a go...

 

Excellent post. Really would like for a new LIRR DLC that would include Grand Madison , Diesel, and M9

 

I think I must add, what seems to be making routes like Niddertalbahn and Blackpool branches stand out more is them not experiencing bad bugs to the same level as other routes, both routes seem (I haven’t yet purchased Niddertalbahn but I’ve heard positives and it’s something I’m looking to pick up at some point) very playable/finished product with minimal bugs what don’t affect people playing them compared to other releases.

a polished route what feels finished not rushed out is a big part of what makes a great route.

 

You mean Nideltabahn I assume? Maintalbahn isn't out yet.

 

I do I was wondering if I was confusing its name cheers

 

I think you are underestimating the amount of freight that can be had on this section of mainline, you are only counting the intermodal/oil/manifest traffic between Hobart/Alameda Trench and Fullerton Junction and the Barstow to/from San Diego Daygo. But there is alot more. BNSF has 3 other yards along the line between Hobart and Fulllerton.

Citcom and BNSF's mechanical department, Citcom is a nice small little intermodal yard and would be interesting to switch in game.


Pico Rivera, seems like some intermodal cars are stored here, along with some boxcars and covered hoppers.


La Mirada, now this one would be the most interesting yard...

As there is a nice small industrial complex located behind it (I assumed served by the yard) A few warehouses, some tank car sidings and a cement plant.


There is also a handful of lineside industries as well between Hobart and Fullerton.

And this isnt counting the BNSF industrial trackage near Hobart next to the LA River.

 

Lets take a look at the current LIRR DLC.

• 42-mile route of the Long Island Railroad extending from New York Penn Station to Hicksville, New York. The route also includes Atlantic Terminal in Brooklyn, Long Island City station, and the LIRR’s Hempstead branch
• A total of 26 LIRR stations
• The Main Line from Long Island City and New York Penn to Hicksville via Jamaica
• Atlantic Branch from Jamaica to Atlantic Terminal
• Hempstead Branch from Floral Park to Hempstead
• Belmont Park Branch from Queens Village to Belmont Park

The route that was originally released in november of 2018. It's a 42 miles route, has 26 stations, and several branches. So the lenght is good. Has lots of stations. And 3 different Branches. It released with the M7 and later a separate DLC that added the M3. Unfortunately the M3 DLC was just a sub and did not increase amount of services on the route.The current timetable doesn't come near of representing the busiest railway in north america. This is an example of an US DLC that could have been great but missed the mark. So how can we change this and make the LIRR a great DLC. I know there's probably nothing that can be done to salvaged the old. A brand new LIRR route to include M3,M7, and M9.This new route would be base on 2023 Grand Central Madison and Penn station.C3 Bi-level coaches with DE30AC would be a separate purchase DLC. With Joe adding the (500+services)LIRR layer to NYT dlc, it showed the potential of what a new LIRR dlc would look like.The new LIRR DLC to include the Huntington and Ronkonkoma branches. So here are the estimates of services:
LIRR Penn station 350
Grand Central Madison 292
Atlantic avenue 168
LIC- 24
Dead head/SSY/WSY-100
Amtrak/Acela/NJT/SSY AI- 675+
Total services with all layers and AI- 1,600+ services
(new route to include M3,M7,M9)and pay loco DLC (DM30AC with C3 bilevel cars)
We would have all the required equipment in the game to make this a complete route.

 

I appreciate the detailed response. I pass by the yards often but never pay enough attention to detail as to what all is there around them. Sometimes it's hard to see all of this from the train. Lol.

I guess the only point I was trying to make is while there are a lot of freight options available in this section, they'd only run the route from any of these areas to Fullerton as no freights travel south to San Diego from Fullerton Jct. As was discussed above, the only freights traveling to/from San Diego use the Olive sub and join the route at Orange a few miles south of Fullerton. They'd run this route Orange-Oceanside. So you'd be restricted from running these freight trains from west of Fullerton from any of these yards very far. They'd be 20-30 minutes in service length. Running time LA-Fullerton is 30-35 minutes. I assume a freight train runs the shorter distance from any of these yards to Fullerton in about the same time. I only know what it takes an Amtrak or Metrolink train to do it.

I'm definitely not trying to discredit this suggestion or anything like that. Far from it. I'm just saying it really is more of a passenger/commuter route. Yes, the first 30 minutes LA-Fullerton is way more of a freight route with how many options for freight traffic and services there'd be. But it would just be that section. Running any kind of freight train on the route of decent length, say 1 hour or more, would be very limited. You wouldn't, prototypically, be able to run a freight the entire length. Of course, you could always use free roam to do it anyways. Nothing stopping that.

You'd have great freight layering between LA-Fullerton and then nothing other than Metrolink and Amtrak Fullerton-Oceanside with the exception of 1 or 2 freights between Orange and Oceanside that you might see layered in on one service at night. I still want to see this route come to fruition though. It gives us another 2 hour run for the Metrolink DLC LA-Oceanside, not to mention HIGHLY requested Amtrak DLC, specifically Surfliner with Charger, cabcar, etc. I still think the route is a great suggestion and we all know how highly suggested and desired it is but it won't give that even split of passenger and freight over a good majority or all of the route that Matt seems to be interested in. This is another one that's way more of one or the other.

 

I guess the question is do players really care if you run a freight service the entire length of a route or not.

 

Freight-oriented players, absolutely. For some of us, passenger rail is just moving scenery to enliven your freight driving.

 

Well, guess look elsewhere for a route then. Amtrak California and Union Pacific from Oakland east then?

You lose some passenger density as you only have the 2 Amtrak California trains (Capital Corridor to Sacramento/Auburn, San Joaquin to Martinez before it splits off)and 2 Amtrak Long Distance trains (Coast starlight and California Zephyr)

Amtraks yard in Oakland, and the Port of Oakland with UP freight along the entire line.

 

I'd like to see a retro US route based on a shortline railroad delivering to lots of customers and industries along the line. GP9's and such like, maybe even timed at the transition from steam to diesel. That would be cool. If anyone can make a decent shortline railroad map then DTG can , they specialise in short length maps after all! There would have to be lots of spurs and shunting areas on it too. That would pack a lot of fun into a route that wouldn't need too much effort to produce.

 

I agree about the Ronkonkoma Branch but I think the Far Rockaway Branch is better than the Huntington Branch.

More stops and you can run more services out of Atlantic Terminal.

 

Haven’t read the entire thread so maybe this has already been mentioned but there are still a lot of inaccuracies in the German routes so having an “on the ground” team doesn’t necessarily mean that this problem will be fixed.

 

Quick counterpoint- i'd LOVE some 30 minute freight services- we already have a bunch of longer services in the existing routes. I think there's room for variety.

 

Yeah, I totally understand that. I know the market is there for it. In that sense, Pacific Surfliner is a perfect candidate for this. Plenty of short, 30 min services would run between LA area and Fullerton Jct. Anyone wishing to run longer freight train services prototypically would find the route falls short on that. A lot of players though like sitting down to just run a 30 minute service so it’s good for that. The point I was trying to make is it’s really a passenger/commuter route with some freight layering during the first and last 30 minutes of it over like 20 miles or so. Blacknred81 did a great job explaining above all the freight options available between LA-Fullerton that could be run. If you’re looking for another 2 hour passenger run like Antelope Valley that also includes the highly requested Amtrak DLC, look no further.