Cargo Line Volume 1 - Questionable New Pack From Skyhook

Nobody said work for small change.
But I think this is quite overpriced at £9.99, £7.50 would be more reasonable. It should at least have a Class 66 Repaint in it.

 

Would you go into a shop and criticise it's apples that are there but not a mandatory purchase? I very much doubt it.

 

If the apples tasted bad or were rotten, I would get a refund. If a trailer for a movie released and it wasn't something I didn't like in the promotional material, I would criticise it and not watch it. When it comes to movies for instance, that happens quite often. The Marvels being a recent example and it didn’t do so well in the box office

The point is that quite often, a game or a movie or many things in this world will be critiqued due to promotional material, price, quality and other reasons. If someone believes that the price isn't right, or if they think that the game isn't going to be good, there is nothing wrong with saying that. It is a common occurrence. If it's positive feedback or negative feedback, at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with that even if we aren't obligated to purchase it.

It really isn't difficult to understand or know that it happens quite often.

 

Maybe even £4.99 because all it is, is some new wagons so I don't really see the point of paying £9.99. My other gripe is they could of added the wagons in for free or something like that.
Edit: but I'm glad that London midland's mod for this route is getting added because after see the before and after screenshots MML looks more better.

 

It also includes scenarios and timetable changes to two routes to be fair.

 

True but maybe put the price down to £4.99 or £5.99 because £9.99 can get you a new loco, sometimes with wagons included.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't criticise something unless I have to have it. If its optional I simply don't care.

 

Fair enough. But there are others that aren't like that and it's not a bad thing

 

I can't believe people want something for £4-5 these days. After Steam and DTG take their cut, SHG would be lucky to afford a round of burgers from what's left.

You can't get much for £10 these days.

If you don't want it, don't buy it but, I hate to say it, I think we have a bunch of cheapskates on the forum. Scrooge would be happy.

 

£6.99 would have been a fairer price IMHO. and still no mention of whether the freight bug I mentioned a few posts ago will be addressed?

 

Speak for yourself mate. I am not a cheapskate but I feel strongly that the opportunity for a Class 60 to be included with these tank wagons has been missed. I would be more than happy to pay £6.99 for this pack but £9.99 with no new locomotive and already owning the Class 66 is a bit high. a penny under £7 seems reasonable to me for a wagon pack. It's about the same that most of the newer wagon packs from AP sell for in my experience,

However had a Class 60 been included, I would have no problems paying £20 for a pack with these tank wagons included because of the sheer fun being offered in running a Class 60 with a rake of these on MML would be something I would enjoy.

 

Since when does someone not seeing value in a product make a person a cheapskate? I could easily buy this if I wanted to and others as well but I don't just spend money on every game or dlc if I don't see value in it even if it's cheap. Labeling someone a cheapskate because they don't see value in what is essentially a tank with a new bogie, different livery and some services which will be pulled by a freight train already in game is not the right view to have.

Also DTG are doing fine financially. They can afford to buy Skyhook plenty of burgers

 

If you don't see value in something, by all means pass it up. I do that every day. Doesn't matter how much or how little something costs. I don't want it at any price.

But people who do see value in it but would deny the SHG guys a fair return on their investment of time and skill are being a bit stingy in my opinion.

£10 should be a minimum for this amount of new content. Even that price isn't going to cover the real cost of making what is included here.

Just my take.

 

9.99 is outrageous… I believe 9.97 would be more appropriate.

Everyone has their own litmus on what “value” an item has for their enjoyment. And the great thing about it, there is no requirement for everyone to agree. Obviously many people here really want the product because how incessantly they are complaining about the price point. If they did not want it, they would just shrug their shoulders and move on. Anyway, I am happy to see a third party willing to stick their toes in the water.

 

Stingy?

I'm sorry, but this isn't a charity. How ironic that there are those that will say that if you don't like it, then don't buy it. But if a customer thinks that the price isn't right for what is being offered, that it makes them stingy for not wanting to pay full price for something. Nobody here is obligated to buy anything as some here want to point out. Video Game companies are not charities and we are not obligated to ensure that a video game company gets a "return on investment" for their work. That view makes no sense.

If a person sees value, that is fine. If a person doesn't see value in this pack, that doesn't make them stingy. It's not a customers responsibility to pay wages of a company's employees or to ensure that a company is doing well. That is a extremely weird take to have.

 

I’ll only buy it the price is written with a greengrocer’s chisel-point marker pen including an unnecessary apostrophe on a big fluorescent star like “Wagon’s 37p per pound”. Then I’d buy some lamb chops out of the back of a Transit van and walk the two miles back to my caravan because the bus fare is out of my budget. If Cameron’s government wants me to live on a fiver a day then by gum I’ll live on a fiver a day.

 

I am going to assume this comment is bait because everything you just said is laughably wrong

 

So how would you guys feel after planning, designing, then working on and finally testing and after chasing out the bugs (well almost all of them) a piece of dlc, where you have spent hours on the above. A fair price is set for the dlc only for certain people to state that they don't think its worth that much. How much are the customers qualified in business to make that assumption?

The term if you don't like the price then don't buy it applies here 100%
Whether you think it does or doesn't. The price has been set. The price wont change, You have two choices buy or not too buy. Simple. Do one or the other.

Hentis

 

Why is it laughably wrong?

Split £5 threeways it leaves little left. Presumably Skyhook have decided that to make it worthwhile them producing this pack then they have decided £10 is what makes it worthwhile.

It is easy to get into semantics and bandy around our preferred price point but we aren't the ones making the product, making the scenarios and services and releasing it.

Maybe if train simming was as popular as games such as GTA and COD then DLC could be sold a lot cheaper.

I do feel some on here don't see or refuse to see the bigger picture, £5 buys very little nowadays.

 

"A fair price is set for the dlc"
That's the issue though. The customers also get to decide what a "fair" price for the dlc is. Every customer is qualified to make that decision, because it is their individual money. If the majority of customers don't think it's a fair price, then it isn't.

You can't tell me that this freight pack (£9.99) took 77% of the effort that the Vectron Loco DLC (£12.99) took for example. Or half as much effort as Glossop Line (£19.99), so how is it a "fair" price in comparison to that?

Now I will be buying it, because I do want more of that type of content, and I'm also happy that MML is being updated. But it does seem the price is set by DTG.

 

Fair price, fair enough.
But do you not think Matrix Trains go through the same process of checking and double checking every £2.99 coach pack they release for TSC?

Or Run 8 who charge between $6 and $10 US for their car packs, which again generally have more than one type and several liveries.

Not what is being asked for this pack.

 

And yet Simtrack are only charging £5 for their 323 livery pack. Now both of these add ons are releasing roughly the same time, one is £5 and one is £10, which one do you think most people will consider?

You also have to look at it from a customer's point of view, the RHTT was £5 which added a lot more than this wagon pack will. From a customer's point of view I do not care how the money is split between devs and publishers, I am simply looking at it as "What has the best value for money?"

Their BR 187 was a brand new loco and they only charged £12 for it so I fail to see the logic charging £10 for one wagon when for just £2 more I could get a new train. All of Skyhooks products for TSW bar this one have been the same price as DTG's prices over the years but suddenly something changed and the value has gone way up.

The whole "Don't like it don't buy it" argument is a ridiculous rhetoric started by Sam (ColonelFailure) during his time as CM for DTG and was an incredibly unprofessional statement to make from someone trying to sell you a product.

I see a lot of users using this stupid argument all the time to defend something that gets criticized and while some users definitely take the biscuit and get way too angry over it and may resort to insults, I think I've been fair in my critique. So when someone has the audacity to basically call someone broke for not purchasing an overpriced product I can't help but laugh.

I would not be here posting my thoughts if I was not interested in the product, I think there's definitely a market for it it's just that I think the price is way too much, but as usual some people come here with the same "Don't like it don't buy it" comments like it's some divine revelation and derail any worthwhile discussion.

I certainly don't care if anyone buys this pack or not, what they do with their money is none of my business, but I would certainly like it if I could express my thoughts without folks getting all defensive.

Just my two cents

 

Please can we skip this price discussion? There are people they think its to expensive and there are people they are fine with it... Its worth less to be in discussion about this it will result in nothing.

 

Hi Everyone,

Posting at a reasonable time of day!

My aim is to try and do a live stream of MML and Cargo Line tonight. It'll probably be around 9pm GMT.

At Skyhook we're not yet ready to this on official channels so it will be on my Twitch page. Hope that's ok.

twitch.tv/lucazonex/about

 

What time zone are you in? GMT?

 

Great point! Indeed GMT. Post updated

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]? The price is very relevant vs. what is on offer. [EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome], ignore those posts.

 

Its useless! Skyhook doesnt change the price. Its the price that they have already confirmt so the discussion is nothing more than a point of view nothing else

 

Less useless than this post at least. Just because someone won't change something in a product, doesn't mean providing the feedback is useless.

 

If you go to a supermarket did you ask the store manager also about his pricing and give them, what you called "feedback" about a pineapple or a bread? If you do i guess you get banned really soon for frustrating the process

 

Strange choice of comparison considering the number of news articles over the last couple of years quoting customers complaining how much the price of things like bread have increased.

 

Not at all a working analogy. For one, this isn't the store, this is the manufacturer/producer. In my job I negotiate with manufactures and sellers with their products all the time.
Hell even for normal things, huge parts of the world you can barter on goods.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

Much the same as you complaining about other peoples' posts never stops us from making them.

 

Let's tone down maybe and not have (again) a metadiscussion about discussions?

 

Sorry but how often give this feedback results? Maybe thats the question that you have to ask to your'e self. DTG has raised the prices last year

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

it's about repeating positions and then getting the same result over and over again... "I'm for" "I'm against".
Just read how many posts have been written and then my question to let this discussion go.

Im not against discussions in general!

 

Point being, if this item only sells a few score copies, SHG have an inquest as to why so low, then they have the ready made answer in this thread - many potential customers felt the price too high for what’s on offer.

Now if they had done a Class 60 and tank car pack, with accurate sounds and physics on the loco, I would quite happily have dropped £15 on it without question.

It’s called market research and feedback.

 

Back on topic... the wagons do look very good, hopefully either the roadmap or festive streams will show them off a bit, preferably see them in motion rather than just screenshots.

 

Let me then ask the question, how do you know what is a financial success for them or not? Maybe that's only 60 products sold or maybe 1000, but you don't know that any more than I do

purely speculating on made-up assumptions

Nothing less nothing more

 

I doubt they would be looking to sell just 60 copies and SHG aren't going to offer up any commercial stats so all you are doing with that question is redirecting and strawmanning the discussion.

 

As someone mentioned, the price unfortunately has to take into consideration the percentage that Steam charges, plus DTG’s cut. That is the cold reality. It can therefore never be directly proportional to loco or route DLCs because of this. I can be as tight of pocket as the next man, but SHG need to make some profit out of this otherwise they will not be in business long, which would not be great for anyone.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

Exact and we dont talk about the licence for VTG

 

That's easy, if we get volumes 2, 3, 4 and 5 then we know it was a success, if we never even see volume 2 then it was a complete disaster.

Personally I think £5 is too cheap and £10 is too expensive, £8 feels just right, so while I will definitely be buying this, it will probably be when it first goes on sale, but other people will have different opinions on what is 'value' to them.

I must admit to being a marketeer's dream when it comes to seeing a discount, if this, or anything TSW related, came with a 10% launch discount then they've got my purchase, if not then I'll wait for the inevitable 25% off sale a couple of months down the line.

 

I stand in a similar position really.

£10 is too much for this IMO, when you can get things like the RHTT, ROG37 & SEW pack for less.

My biggest issue though is that it’s repeated content coming over & over again. I’m at a point where I cannot stand adding more 66’s to my ever growing collection of them.

I’d probably buy these wagons at a cheaper price, with a different loco available, but until there’s a new freight loco to use I just don’t see myself being a customer of these packs.

 

here in lies the fallacies of these arguments … First, the customer does not get to decide the price. It is set by the merchant to cover the cost of the product (development time in this case ) and all handling fees to get said product to the consumer plus what profit percentage is wanted. The customer can decide to buy it or not.

Second , fairness of price is an individual determination. I could not care less what the majority think is fair or not, that is my determination. Therefore arguing about the “value and fairness” of a product is useless exercise… sort of like discussing politics at family gatherings … never going to be a consensus.

 

Where did you get this silliness, my man? Ever heard about the concept of negotiation? Both the seller and the buyer have the right to set a price that they are satisfied with it, then the sale happens if both parties can agree on a price they are happy with. While in modern times it has changed a bit, negotiation is not present for most of your purchases - but instead you have options like waiting for sales, which is similar at the end.

Seriously, I do not get some of you who keep acting like corporation are some god like entities and us consumers are merely slaves destined to buy products at all costs. We can always choose to simply not buy something and then it is then their loss, not ours. Then you can complain about "fair price" all you want when noone is willing to buy it.

Just for the record, I have no problem with the price of this pack. But I do agree that it seems to add less value than the RHTT pack or the 37/7 pack for SEHS, yet it seems to be more expensive? No wonder many people are finding it overpriced in this regard.