Going Overground (v.2) | The Goblin Discussion & Speculation Thread

Guards are not on every train at all.

Revenue officers are not guards.

 

Is that the Barking and Romford spider, or ......?

 

I do live in London, that’s how I know they are not Guards but ticket inspectors and nearly all of their work is checking Oystercard’s and bank cards. They also move from train to train throughout their shift, how do you expect DTG to simulate this? It’s a whole different game on its own.

 

They could have put Aventra’s on the runs from Liverpool Street to Cheshunt, Chingford and Enfield of course, but then we’d of been presented with a starkly empty Liverpool St. The situation would have been the same on the Euston to Watford Junction route - an empty Euston.
Now if they did a modem GEML then Liverpool St. would look much better with Overground operating there as a layer.
So I guess that left them little choice with the 710 this time sadly.

 

Oh I think I'm mistaken there.

Most trains that operate around London though but not TFL. If memory serves right.

 

I take issue with that. I haven't forgotten about either of these routes. BCC in particular was one of my most played routes this year.

I'll never understand why people apparently are against short mainline commuter routes like this, but also keep clamouring for a new Underground route.

And what exactly is wrong with that? Routes with Electrostars are some of the best in the game, and routes with lots of stops keep my attention a lot better than slow, meandering freight services. I don't think freight would suit this route anyway. You'd probably be crawling along at an average of 10mph following a stopper.

 

To clarify, forgotten by DTG. No attempt to take advantage of extending or enhancing a route at the centre of which is one of the most important hub stations in the UK. Forgotten because AFAIK the scenery glitches and poor standard south of B irmingham has never been fixed.

 

To be fair the freight has to be well timed & clear the area quickly so that it doesn’t congest the track.

It won’t be frequent between 8am & 9pm.

There’s plenty of room still within TSW for things that aren’t EMU commuter lines, but we’re getting stuck in that pattern again, as we once were with third rail.

It’s less about if it’s good, more about variety.

 

Funny thing you say that I was on the bus passing catford and saw 4 inspectors leaving catford bridge station

 

Ngl I do think the route is going to get boring very easy 13 miles 40 minutes 2 trains 66 and 710 running up and down is going to get boring very fast. I hope they include east ham depot, personally I think every full length route like BCC, Goblin, BML should have atleast one depot its kind of weird that the ECS moves om BCC start from birmingham

 

Catford Bridge is on the Southeastern network though, who regularly still run as guard operated.

I'm talking about inspectors on lines like the Overground, which are run as DOO.

 

While I've seen London Overground trains in the sidings at East Ham Depot, they are not based there, so I think a working East Ham Depot is unlikely. Ideally they'd include Gospel Oak to Willesden where these units are allocated from but I doubt such a large chunk of the North London Line would be included for the sole purpose of a few depot runs.

Hopefully they will add some C2C-looking Aventras on the main lines at Barking. While the coaches on the 720 are 3 metres longer than the 710 and have an additional window bay between the doors it would still be better than an empty 7 platform Barking Station.

 

8 platforms, and I'm sure C2C only uses 2 anyway.
One is a rarely used Overground one, 2 are used by the Goblin, 2 by C2C and the last 3 are used by the District and H&C.

At best, we'd get 4 active platforms.

 

c2c uses 4 platforms, but it shares 2 of them now with the Overground. So yes it's 4 platforms, 5 if platform 1 gets at least a little use in scenarios.

 

I really don't understand the hate for BCC. The 323 is one of the best-modeled trains in the game, and i think it's quite atmospheric.

The biggest issue i hear is emptiness at BNS, which, fair enough, but you're there for, what, a minute tops each run? Seems slightly unfair to dismiss it just for that.

 

Some people don’t like stop start runs, and since that’s all BCC does, obviously those people won’t like it.

Quality doesn’t come into it.

 

I was being technically correct as Platform one has no scheduled services anymore and is therefore not open (though it wasn't fenced off last time I was there). My first full-time job was working in Barking Station's busy booking office back in the 90s. Once you work there you never have to look at a London railway, Underground or bus map again.

LUL were doing a feasibility study to see whether they could adopt Platform 1 so that Hammersmith & City services could either terminate there or even run Eastbound Districts through there. I suspect their funding crisis meant it came to nothing.

It'll be interesting to see if DTG use Platform one, possibly an RHTT service into it?

 

And some people feel short- changed by the " one train per route " paradigm that DTG has adopted. Still others don't like one- handed, " electrostar " type trains.

 

Can't say I've seen it fenced off. I know it is seldom used when engineering works are planned.
But that isn't all that common.

 

I absolutely love BCC as a route, it's a proper end-to-end commuter run.
But I can't play it often. It's quite long from Redditch/Bromsgrove up to Lichfield or even Four Oaks, and it can get boring if I do too frequently.
I have a similar feeling to routes like Edinburgh-Glasgow and Cathcart (although Cathcart is largely down to the 314 being a bit boring to drive after a while. Well-made but it's a 314.)

I bought Glossop Line but haven't played it apart from the crawl at the Eastern end. I imagine it'll be similar.

 

I feel kinda similar about BCC to you. I like the route a lot, and I like stop start commuter routes, but my attention wanes playing one for an hour.

I think that's why despite me playing it a lot when it first came out, I haven't played it much since Glossop came out. It's a very similar experience with the same train, however the shorter length suits my short attention span better. I'm probably going to like Goblin line a lot for similar reasons.

Edinburgh to Glasgow doesn't have that issue for me, probably because it's more of a regional express service than a commuter one.

 

I have to say I'm also confused with DTG at the moment. I don't understand the models of routes they're going for at the moment. Because Matt said earlier in the year he wants to dig fewer deeper holes in terms of content but we're just getting a load of these smaller stocking filler style routes which seem to be completely the opposite of that statement?

I hope they can prove us wrong and give it a really good go especially in light of BPO. Just seems like a strange choice to me. I understand theres intricate frieght workings from reading posts but I have to say I'm personally bored of the 66 now Give me that 31 on a cement train any day

 

I have a feeling the next UK release by DTG after GOBLIN will be a big one. This release feels like it would have only needed a small team on it given the short length of the route. Something like a long and/or complex route which broadens the selection of rolling stock available or makes good use of the stuff we already have (thinking 387s/700s/Aventras here) must be on the horizon.

Even the GOBLIN reveal had a feel of "here's a little route for you" about it. It's not one that pushes TSW much further forward, but I will enjoy it and I think it will be popular. The Aventra is apparently a lovely train to drive, according to a Greater Anglia driver I know.

 

Ignore what DTG say, look at what they do.

 

Could be that more resources are going towards other route projects (e.g. the upcoming 2nd Austrian route) rather than more UK routes for the time being. There are also no UK routes from DTG on the roadmap for the next 6 months, so after Goblin we may not see anything else until the Summer.

 

It'd be interested to see, was talking to a friend of mine who's a GA driver and recons the train does most of the work.

 

No wonder my mate likes them. That and the big windscreen. Great Eastern drivers have been notoriously demanding over large windscreens which is why the Class 321s and 360s original designs with central gangways between units were revised. The 321s were originally going to look similar to 319s and the 360s like the 350s.

 

That's probably why drivers like them.

I'd wager that most modern units in this game like Electrostars and 700s are among driver's favourites, yet enthusiasts on this forum don't like them. The opposite may be true for classic units.

 

The people on this forum dont like change they will forever prefer the old stock even tho new stock do it better. They hate new trains simply because they replaced old ones

 

I think it's more to do with the fact that plenty of users here grew up / lived with older units, and have an affinity towards them.
To be fair - a modern EMU (as much as I like them) just cannot compare to a 45 or 47 on the likes of NTP.

 

I grew up with 172s on the Goblin, 378s on the Watford DC, 319 and 377 on Thameslink yet I do not dislike 710s and 700s at all infact I prefer them because I know they do a great job. And when southern eventually find a replacement for the 171s ill welcome them with open arms. Change is a thing that needs to happen and change is something these yutes pon this forum cant wrap their heads around

 

Or people just have preferences?

 

Not everyone on this forum. I much prefer the new trains my TOC has to the old ones and I am sure there are many others who would agree. However my favourite routes are the BR ones with the old diesels because they are much more enjoyable and interesting to drive than the modern units on todays railway, even if they aren't as fast or don't 'do it' as good as the new stuff.

There is a big difference between driving/riding a train in real life and driving/riding one in sim and so there are different preferences for each situation.

 

Yep, I love driving the pacer in TSW. I disliked riding one in real life haha.

 

It’s the same thing, when the new generation grows up and pendolinos and 800s are replaced they’ll complain about the same thing, it happened with the HST, 91s and the pendos and even the diesels when they replaced steam engines

 

Can't wait, have been wanting this route for a long time. My most-played routed by far in TSC.

 

I don't think that is a completely fair assessment. People always have preferences. I am sure there are still people out there lamenting the end of steam.

As a commuter I want an efficient and comfortable train, which I would assume would be the most modern ones. Although on my local line, The Snow Hill lines I see little improvement of the class 172's over the 150's. They have a bit more room but I find them less comfortable, although quieter for sure. However due to the amount of failures they seem to suffer from and the amount of times a train turns up short-formed, I question whether they are more reliable than the class 150's, all of which are pretty much still in service.

As an enthusiast my main interest is in the BR diesel and steam period, but I wouldn't say I find modern railways uninteresting, just less interesting and do feel trains don't have as much character now. However they aren't supposed to of course.

But on the sim I enjoy driving trains so if it is a one handled EMU, a class 40 or a Jubilee, I will enjoy it.

Funnily enough I find routes like this proposed one, the most immersive on TSW because they feel complete and logical.

As an aside, I don't get the dislike to BCC either, apart form some rather basic scenery near Alvechurch, I think it is well modelled, it feels correct for the area, the approaches to New Street especially. The class 323 one of the best in the sim. The services are plentiful and complete. Yes, New Street is too quiet but I find it really isn't an issue. You do have to put time aside to complete a service though as they are quite long.

Anyway, we are all different, I think some of use are so set in our ways or in our views we can't countenance that others feel differently.

 

Those who are saying this is a little route, and other words to the same effect, you’re right in one way-the distance is short, however it SHOULD have had time spent on to make sure it feels like a dense city environment and that the assets are all realistic. Immersion is a word that DTG need to reacquaint themselves with, I very much hope this route isn’t pushed out as a quick buck.

 

I absolutely love BCC, the only thing missing from it is the Soho depot really. 323 is a lot of fun to drive.

 

Make sense that they did this route if that's the case. Would then allow them to create a route from Liverpool St and have the 710 layer in.

 

As someone who lives in South Wales trust me, the 150s are on their last legs. I've had so many trains cancelled on both the Valley lines and the Marches because of their unreliablilty. I can't wait to see the back of them.

I'm quite tall so I personally value space over the comfort of seats. I can't stand the airline seats on a 150 because my knees are always pressing into the back of the seat in front. It's very uncomfortable.

Don't forget 172s have better performance characteristics than a Sprinter too. Better acceleration is crucial for commuter lines.

However I will say I think the 172s are the worst of the modern DMUs around currently. Their interiors are surprisingly Spartan, and they don't even have fold down tables, which is inexcusable.

 

As someone also from South Wales, and also who is tall. Riding the 150 from Cardiff up to Stockport is absolutely hell on my knees. So uncomfortable.

 

I am sure the class 172's are more efficient, although the acceleration point is interesting. When they first came out a London Midland driver, a friend of a friend stated that he thought the first gear change came to quickly, they certainly don't seem to pull away quickly. Whether they are quicker than a 150 I couldn't say. Although the class 172's are more comfortable than the new class 196, which have awful seats. I recently travelled from Smethwick to Shrewsbury in one and was very glad to get off. It was very nice otherwise.

I take your point about the class 150's reliability, I was just musing over the fact they are still in service. I wonder what the class 172's will be like at their age, if they even make it. They don't seem to me to be particularly reliable now so I can't image what they will be like at nearly 40 years old.

 

Really? I've had a few journeys on them now and I'd gladly take one over a 172.

 

I find the back of the seat is too upright.

 

Just hope that it isnt to realistic. because it is bombardier... realistic would be if 1 or 2 trains broke down at one day

 

In reference to comments about change and "what's better? New or old?" stuff.

I'm an old duffer, I've been on passenger service trains built from 1924 to 2023. Thanks to all of that experience of traveling on trains I can say the best ones are the safest ones. Because they're passenger vehicles. Doesn't mean I can't miss some of the old trains I've loved over the years but many old favs were not very safe back in the day and certainly shouldn't be in passenger service now.

Putting safety aside, my favourites come from anywhere between 1938 and 2020 so it's perfectly normal to like old and new. Embrace whatever you love.

 

You want to try travelling on the god awful new 197's we have in Chester that replaced the smooth 175's, they are rough as arseholes, god knows why they replaced the 175's, they were much much better to travel on

 

Though at least the 197s aren't as likely to burst into flames.

 

I'm really hoping for this route there's some additional focus on the area surrounding the stations, for example I'd like to see a lot more npc, more traffic, traffic jams. If canary or the shard are visible, I'd like to see them modelled and visible in the distance. I'd also like to see dirt, and grime too