Enough Is Enough!!!

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

While it isn't 100% certain there will be a TSW5, it is almost a 99% chance this will be DTGs future plans. It is naive to think otherwise. People said the same in the summer before TSW4 when stuff was getting leaked, and here we are. With TSW4 released, and with what the leakers said it would have.

I guess you don't think a new EA football game is coming out next year then? Or a new F1 game? Or a new MLB/NHL/NBA game?
As they haven't announced them yet. I guess you also don't think the sun will rise tomorrow either, as no one has announced it. As we seem to be dismissing past evidence and trends?

With how companies are structured with financing, I wouldn't be surprised if the next 2-3 games are planned out as part of some 5-10 year business plan.

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/content-quantity-over-quality-dtgs-own-statements.76792/

This is a relatively recent thread which was locked very quickly with a vague reason given (almost as if they didn't want people to see what was in the thread...)

"Within each franchise core games are typically superseded by a new iteration after a period and for this reason are normally amortised over 12 months from release. Content typically remains on sale for the life of the franchise and is not usually superseded by a subsequent release."



It's corporate speak for "we're going to be replacing our games roughly every 12 months".

 

You know, I thought tsw4 would never be a thing and then when it was leaked, I thought it would be a free update. How wrong I was on both fronts

The idea that tsw5 won't be a thing is just a load of nonsense. This is like saying F1 24 won't be released because it hasn't been announced.

I do believe that tsw5 will be out this year. Although I would be happy if I was wrong.

 

Whilst there is a chance, I refuse to believe it until someone who knows what is happening says something.

 

I'm not saying it won't be a thing.

But a few people on a forum with no affiliation to DTG apart from being customers isn't good enough.

 

Well according to the Soothsayers in this thread and other threads, Focus and DTG are to be no more soon so presumably TSW5 will never be released!

I wonder how some on here would feel if the future of the company they worked for was being speculated in such a crass and in some cases almost gleeful fashion?

 

I honestly wouldn't care.

 

Well, not exactly. What it really means is that "our accountants are going to spread the cost across a 12-month declining balance for bookkeeping (and tax) purposes." That does mean that after a year the project is off the books, but does not necessarily mean, though it can, that its successor will follow immediately.

 

You would if you were a DTG employee.

 

Which is exactly what is happening.
It wouldn't bother us that much if for a reasonable upgrade fee we get real new features and marked improvements, but alas, we only get new castles in the sky. i.e. another default route with all the previous bugs carried forward ....

Regarding listening to customers and learning from their reports, Railroader (10/10 on Steam) is out for almost a month now, and still considered early access. Derail Valley is out for a longer period, and has already evolved into a stable franchise, even though there are probably less new players, the developers haven't lost their heart and courage and keep driving their game forwards.
Yet these small teams of developers have managed to stamp out more bugs and implement more suggestions than many other, larger, gaming studios, DTG included, are capable of in a year. Tells us something about their dedication and culture.

 

I think the issue is that there were those that genuinely didn't think tsw 4 would be a thing. I certainly didn't think so either and was genuinely suprised that it was announced. So naturally there are those that believe that tsw 5 will be a thing either this year or next year. It's the same with the f1 games. Everyone knows the f1 games are a yearly release even if the new iteration of the game isn't announced.

 

I suspect you would if it was ever put to the test. It has been said several times that DTG staff avoid the forums, fancy reading some of the bile and speculation in this thread.

 

No I wouldn't. I'm the type of person who doesn't care what people would say about me

 

Well maybe give thought to the fact that not everyone feels the same as you do.

 

I’m glad you posted this as I would have found it harder to explain and maybe used a hundred words where just a few were needed.

 

So I say that I don't care what people would say about me. Then it's if I was a DTG employee, then I would care. When I said again that I wouldn’t care, then apparently it's" not everyone feels the same way as I do" even though you hadn't said that previously.

You accused me of caring if I was an DTG employee, and all I said was that I wouldn't. What does caring about what others think have to do with what you accused me of?

Also isn't it the community managers job to read the forums and report any feedback to devs? I wouldn't expect developers to be on here often or at all

 

I accused you of nothing, I questioned your stance that you wouldn't care! I think most would care if their livelihood was being discussed, which is what is happening on this forum at the moment, if you insist you wouldn't well fair enough.

DTG staff have said that the forums are often hard to read and are often avoided.

We aren't talking about faceless entities, we are talking about human beings, reading that they are lazy, or they are liars, or the company they work for is in trouble.

There is a difference between being constructive and some of the pitch-fork waving which has been evident lately.

 

First of all, it was not a question. You said you thought I would care. I said I didn't. I learned in life to just not care about what others say at a young age. You can't let negativity drag you down. Also to use feedback to better yourself as a person or in your line of work

Secondly, it's not exactly hard to find out why there is so much negativity considering all the problems this game has. Do you honestly expect those to just say nothing and to just praise every aspect of the game? I don't find it surprising that there are those speculating on a TSW5 given what has happened in the past

Now I wouldn't say terrible things about developers since they are tied down by management deadlines which has lead to certain dlc's that haven't been the best when they released. But at the end of the day, we are paying customers. Feedback will be harsh at times. I don't condone bashing devs, but at the end of the day, we have dlc's that have been released that are either rushed, plagued with issues that haven't been fixed in ages, core features not working properly or just missed the mark. Some may not mind that, but there are those that do so it's not surprising that there are those that have something negative to say.

I just thought community managers are the ones that are supposed to provide feedback and be here and not necessarily the devs. If a dev chooses not to be here, then that's their choice and that doesn't bother me

Also to be honest, it's not the customers job to care about the well being of devs or the mental state of devs. We are being sold a product, and people will have an opinion be it positive, harsh or negative. It may not be fair at times or you may not agree, but that's just how it is. Doesn't mean that devs should be called terrible things

 

I feel like you dont, cant or wont hear the truth. TSW5 is coming and its going to be the same trend as the previous years, minor changes that arent worth £40 along with new and existing bugs

 

Has Adam left!?

 

He’s at Skyhook these days.

 

I agree really, I think 'TheOrganist' was referring to when the forums get personal and too close to the mark which doesn't help anyone.

I would add you get bad devs and good devs, at the same company as well. As far as criticism goes if it is warranted and DTG can't handle it then that is a 'DTG' problem not the customers. All I can really say is if I was making a game I would take notice of what the customers wanted a lot more than what DTG have shown in the past.

 

i can grab a key for 18€ for standard edition
still to expensive? ^^

i hate the politic of DTG but 18€ would be ok for me

 

The truth is: no one except DTG know what's happening. How hard is that to understand.

I also don't believe everything I hear on the Internet.

 

Basically you are looking at accounting practices - Nothing solid here - I run many businesses where the expense of a project is spread over a period of time - and the paragragh is talking in genreral "Typically superseded" nothing written in stone. But pretty typical for any software house. Look at the Madden franchise and FIFA as well.

• Accounting: Amortization is an accounting method that spreads out the cost of an asset over its expected use period. For loans, amortization is the process of spreading out payments over time. For assets, amortization is similar to depreciation. Amortization expenses account for the cost of long-term assets over their lifetime. For example, a television with a useful life of 10 years will amortize after 10 years

 

So if I insulted you, you wouldn't care?

I can guarantee I'd be reported for insulting you by you.

 

Why would I care if some random person on the internet insulted me? I'm not a sensitive person. When I say I don't care, it means I don't care. Is it that hard for you to understand or are you going to try to use different examples to see if I would care?

 

If you wouldn't care, fine, but not everyone is like you.

Also, if you didn't care about what people say to you, you wouldn't reply to them.

 

Ofc but look at the trends
They arent changing anytime soon.
They will release TSW5 community will complain
TSW6 comes out
Its a cycle

 

We've gone 60 pages without this thread being locked, not worth it getting it locked due to a useless argument.

 

I dont think DTG have bad devs i think that they arent given the time, or resources to do better than what they are doing. The problem isnt the devs its the higher ups

 

You are the one assuming things about me. I'm just trying to make you understand that I didn't care if people said anything negative about me. That's all. I don't see why you keep trying to use other examples

Also I reply so that there is an understanding. I don't see an issue with that.

Just because others may be more sensitive or can't handle being told certain things is understandable but is also not my problem

 

You're doing nothing but prove my point that you do care by replying.

If you don't, then stop responding to me.

 

Again, and I'm saying this for the last time because I'm getting sick of it:

If someone on the internet says something and they're not an official source, then it is speculation.

Until DTG make any noise regarding a supposed TSW5 then it WILL NOT happen.

 

This all started because someone said I couldn't handle being told something negative. All I said was that I didn't care if someone said anything bad to me. All I've been doing is trying to clear the air and allow those to understand my view. I don't see what point I'm proving to you.

 

Like I said:

you're not doing yourself any favours otherwise. Don't care about it and step away.

The more you respond, the more you care.

 

Well by this logic then F1 24 will not be a thing. There also won't be an EA FC game this year either

 

Gee, I didn’t know we got to a place where an individual who tries to be understanding by clarifying his points can be completely misinterpreted for something else that an individual that tried to clarify didn’t say.

Some people are sensitive. Others are not. An individual can say they don't care if someone said something negative and you try to twist it into something else that wasn't even said. The person said if someone said something negative (negative being the key word) about them, that they wouldn't care yet when he tries to clairfy, that means that what this person said is wrong because he is trying to clarify so that there is no misunderstanding?

 

The sun also isn't rising tomorrow morning. No one has said it's happening.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

This thread has had some good moments but it’s also completely and utterly mental. It’s the same posters that keep taking it down a rabbit hole unfortunately.

Has TSW5 been confirmed? No. On balance, having seen the way DTG now operate, is it more likely than not it will be announced in July/August for a September release? I’d say yes. I might be wrong, but I think it’s gonna happen. I didn’t, for one minute, believe TSW4 would ever be a ‘thing’. No one knows for sure, so you either think there will be a TSW5 this year or you think the opposite. Blah. Move on.

Also, FWIW, do I think Focus (and by extension DTG) are in any sort of trouble? No I don’t.

 

Devs do not want to release bad products. Devs don't have bad intentions but usually games that release in a poor state is often due to the product being rushed to meet self imposed deadlines by upper management. This leads to corners being cut and a product that can be released that is riddled with problems.

If devs were given more time, then the quality of this product would be better overall and there would be more positive feedback

 

They'll get references and have enough experience to get them jobs at other developers. They might even get a nice sum of money when they're laid off. When it comes down to each individual staff member, DTG shutting down (which I'm not sure will happen; if Focus goes under DTG will probably be sold off or even have a management buyout) will ultimately just become a blip in their lives. I don't think anyone has said that they want staff to lose their jobs, just that it is a possibility.

TSW4 was announced in August 2023, releasing in September. TSW3 was exactly the same, but in 2022. Based on this it is very unlikely that TSW5 won't be announced sometime in the summer, unless DTG have finally seen sense.

Probably a reasonable price I think.

 

While this is true, dev time is a costed resource that can't be "spent" without limit. Ultimately, the product has to make more money that is spent to produce it. You can't tell your people to come back with their masterpiece in a couple of years.

 

Agree on everything but the last point. For me it's hard to ignore the facts (No TSC DLC development for more than a year now, extended layoff atm, cheap filler DLC for TSW.)

This is an objective view of the numbers concerning Focus from a shareholder's perspective (though a clickbait title, it's very informative.)


Though, they seem to have recovered a bit due to xmas sales, market capital now around 100 M, but still debts around 120 M !

 

Speedrun to a ban huh ?

 

I can guarantee those individuals who are bickering like schoolkids ( maybe they are schoolkids ) that if they continue in this vein the thread will be locked.

Maybe it should be at this point.

 

And that also means there will be no EA FC game, no F1 24. No Moto GP game this year either by your logic. My brain isn't tiny. I used your logic and applied it to other franchises. Perhaps you couldn't comprehend that.

Perhaps it's best not to respond if you don't like seeing what others have to say

 

If he didn't care, he wouldn't reply after I told him not to.