Hi All, Just thought I'd start a discussion and would like to hear your opinions on the idea of 'charm' when it comes to your enjoyment of different routes in both TSW and TSC. I was thinking of this today having purchased the BR204 in the winter sale and utilising the criminally underused docks sections on Main Spessart Bahn. I remember playing with this route several years ago before I migrated from PS4 to PC and despite the route being from TSW2020, I still felt it held up well despite the occasional patches of empty trackside and sub-par distance scenery. This got me thinking; why was this particularly enjoyable? Often, we judge routes by their length, loco variety, graphical fidelity however I don't often hear people talking about the 'charm' that a route can provide and how this contributes to our satisfaction when playing. I can think of several examples where this is a key feature of my enjoyment in routes be that the BR 204, Niddertalbahn, West Somerset Railway or Peak Forest Railway (the later I have only completed the Chinley Gala on at present!). But what does charm mean? I guess this is a very subjective experience, but I would like to hear your thoughts! For me, it's that feeling of 'coziness', quaintness or feeling part of the environment the game is set in - perhaps on the slower routes, there is also more of an opportunity to experience the minute to minute detail of the environment. Despite TSWs shortcomings, I think this is an aspect of the game which is often underlooked. Are there any routes, locos or experiences across the franchise which hit this sweet spot for you? And if so, in what way? Cheers!
I think every route has it's own charms to it but the first route that popped into my head when I saw the title were Northern Trans-Pennine as again although it is such an old route now I just feel so engrossed in the route when I am driving it and it is a very enjoyable type of driving, with plenty of thrash in the diesels too. Like I say though every route has it's own charms and then some just stand out that extra bit from the crowd.
I would equate " charm " with an immersive feeling of " being there " and NTP is certainly up there, along with TVL and Sand Patch. There may be others ( Clinchfield has some of that ). The point being, I suppose, that the oldest routes have infinitely more " charm" than the recent crop of largely forgettable routes. Make what you will of that.
I think in fairness, BPO does have a fair bit of charm to it, but there certainly is a trend between the age of routes and the amount of charm they have.
I think a route's charm is enhanced by what you can do with it. (I'm talking about paths / variable start & end points and by the placement of scenery). For instance I particularly enjoy TVL and ECW as both of them can provide a good variety of freight and passenger services as well as having some 'interesting' bits of scenery and sidings etc. However, for me, WCL doesn't have the charm that it should have (especially as it includes the St Ives branch) and that is down to the way the route has been constructed. However I think most routes' 'charm' could be enhanced by just a couple more paths and start/finish points as this would give the player the chance to see a little bit more of the route and make scenarios that are more personal to them. (The Editor will change this eventually but, for the moment, charm seems to take second place to 'efficiency').
So one thing I find charming about Sand Patch Grade, is the radio chatter. Definitely made you feel like you were in a locomotive.
Despite the tedious 25 MPH speed limit and its age, WSR is probably one of the more atmospheric UK routes.
for me lets say Vorarlberg has many charms, not necessarily cos of the mountain scenery - I am a big fan of OBB and German/Austrian railways in general, the signalling, the routes, locos... and in Vorarlberg you have those prototypical OBB stations, 4024 (too bad it doesnt have CityJet Desiro ML; I even made a 4124/modern CityJet livery for it, which heightens the enjoyment for me, I almost always select it in timetable mode)... and being able to drive a loco/train I like in an environment that feels familiar to me (it is not Vienna, but still Austria) is a big part of the charm - being able to drive what I usually ride as a passenger <3
I don't know if I can really talk about "charm", because I can't really define what "charm" is for a railroad. I have pretty much nothing to do with the railroad in real life. So first I have to define what "charm" means to me. I tend to put it together with fun. And the most important thing in this context, when it comes purely to a Route, is the look. And for me, the look of a route starts with the texture of the tracks and sleepers. There are some routes that have terrible track textures and surfaces, and I hardly use these routes at all (for example: Dresden-Chemnitz - the brown soup under the tracks looks terrible or drive through a brown desert). The second thing that makes a route "charming" is the timetable - better its a real time timetable. I don't really care whether it is linear or variable. But there is nothing better than running the same train service at a certain real time ingame as a train driver is doing right now in real time (e.g. Glossop Line). So I think for me the most charming routes are shorter and have real timetables. But as I said, it's difficult for me to describe what makes a route "charming".
Not necessarily just the oldest- the Meißen branch in DRA has undeniable charm. As does Antelope Valley- or at least an LA "feel", whether or not one considers that charming.
In another old thread, I mentioned that people's wishlist of routes and trains they would like to see often are inspired from childhood memories, or their home routes. Could this charming route simply be one of the first routes we played? Could this charming route simply be the first route that got us hooked onto the Train Sim World franchise? It is for me! East Coastway has a lot of charm, but that is mainly because it was the second route I played (after the Bakerloo Line) when I found out about Train Sim World 2.
Yes, I'll go along with that. To some extent, because of its rolling stock and era, BPO is a throwback to the early TSW routes and belongs in the " premier league " with NTP, TVL, SPG and a couple or three others. In terms of " charm "I wouldn't speak of these older routes ( plus BPO ) in the same breath as Glossop, ECML or the upcoming Goblin which, to me, are lacking that allure. Perhaps the lack of " charm " or immersiveness of recent routes lies in the misguided policy of " one simple go kart per route " with which we all have to live these days, a policy which most of us have seemingly just accepted without so much as a whimper of complaint.
Yes BPO is very much like that song released a couple of years back which just sounded like it were straight out of the 80s amongst the modern pop music they make these days: a very good throw back. ECML holds a massive place in my heart but I do agree it really doesn't have as much charm as BPO and older routes. Glossop and the GOBLIN are just complete let downs in my eyes, and one of them hasn't even released. I think what DTG must do is insert some passion into these routes as I feel that may also be a factor which ties in with charm, from my eyes anyway, obviously some may well disagree. Edit: For anyone interested this is the song I were talking about: undeniably like a-ha:
I get a huge blast of nostalgia based charm from the sound the 323 makes, on Birmingham Cross City, as I most of my childhood rail travels involved changes at New Street. The sound of the 323 is as iconic to me as the deafening Valenta screams!
Like many have said above, the feeling of immersion is what brings a route that charm for me, Boston sprinter specifically. I know that Boston Sprinter isn't the most polished route, but to me it captures every part of the real life route in great detail. The physic's and safety systems of the train is another huge factor for me as well. One of the reasons that I find the Harlem line hard to get immersed in is that the train's physics feel like that of a roblox train simulator. For me, physics and sounds are the two most important things, with visuals being in a close second.
Lots of routes have little individual charm factors sprinkled around here and there. I love passing the trailer park with the circling RVs (ooh it does pain me to speak all American), so erm the caravan park with circling motorhomes (for us UK folk) in Cajon Pass, possibly the most charming little easter egg in any route. Routes that are full of charm throughout are a little trickier to find. I suppose the Island Line and Arosa are charming routes in their own right but does their depiction in the game capture that? I don’t know, they certainly could capture it more. Niddertalbahn and Blackpool Branches are the routes that have captured the charm of the real thing the closest, and the detail that is included is a big part of how that was done, with the timetable and BR stock being as important in Blackpool. Capturing the charm of the railways is one thing the route and train builders should strive harder for I think. This is so important when it comes to steam. A couple of attempts so far have not quite done it with the trains and timetables but get closer with the actual routes, PFR and SoS, although the latter does have some prominently placed bad housing assets with poor low LOD models that are what I see on PS5 and that takes away some of the charm. Is it harder to capture charm in the contemporary routes? I think modern trains won’t help there because they are built more for efficiency than their charm factor and won’t yet give that nostalgia feeling that older, more characterful trains do now. Maybe the characteristics of the routes have to add more to the charm, with little additions, maybe not as whimsical as the RVs in Cajon Pass but relevant to the route, here and there. Also, the monstrous power station in MML may not be charming in real life but it is to me in the context of the route and is very well modelled. That’s the kind of thing that I find charming about routes, something impressive and big to look forward to seeing as you approach it. That could be a detailed station or a landmark but I think a theme in what I am saying is that to capture charm, the modelling has to be good. A lot of little details can also be as good as some big ones and a little more animation in the surrounding scenery would go a long way to adding to the charm, like the track workers in Blackpool, but extended to scenery away from stations like animated cranes and diggers and people walking around the streets.
The most immersive routes are the most charming to me. Cross City, Blackpool, Cathcart, Boston Sprinter, Niddertalbahn, Dresden to Riesa probably are the top ones. I think when we get the class 104 PFR will be up there. Routes where can complete a full service and immerse youself being a driver, or routes which have variety. NTP should be a charming route but it feels to quiet and I think the timetable needs an overhaul with the proper train reporting numbers. Brighton Mainline with the class 700 timetable is definately up there now, although the darkness of TSW2 spoils it for me, going into a cutting on a clear summers day is like the sun setting on an autumn evening! I think Blackpool, Niddertalbahn and Cross City would be my top three.
Agree 100%. Mind you if we also get the ability to create/cook scenarios with the new Editor then the route will really be opened up and will be improved ten-fold.
A large factor for the charm of a route are really one's personal preferences - like what types of transportation you prefer, what types of trains you prefer, which connections you may have to a route (like memories or experience of a route) - and one's opinion/view on TSW route creation (for example, I think the Maintalbahn route is decently done, but I also like the route because I personally really like one track routes and diesel trains/routes, but a larger amount of people disagree and/or prefer other types of routes). The other large factor is what functionality TSW and the route offers. Interactions outside of trains (like the ticket vending machines on Nahverkehr Dresden, or having to manually close level crossings if they do not work on Niddertalbahn), attention to in-game dynamics such as working advanced passenger information systems, displays, events, attention towards a identical, real-life recreation, and so on. I would also say that an extensive Scenario Planner 2.0 integration adds to a route's charm too, giving others more freedom and creativity. But sadly it is still too limited in general (IMO). Even though the PC editor with the capability to create full timetables and scenarios exists, it's really hard to create your own timetables and scenarios just because there is close to 0 documentation and help available, aside from the fact that you STILL cannot cook content.
So, I'm not the only one. The funny part is that I share that exact same feeling, but I'm not able to define WHY?! It's just there, that feeling. Maybe, for some reason I get a vibe that more love to detail and accuracy went into these routes. Or that they drive smoother and more fluid. I just don´t know. And I think routes like MSB, RSN and also SKA to a certain degree can be included.
when you mention first routes... I play and thoroughly enjoy Koln Aachen (442 and ICE had been my first trains) and Munchen Augsburg along with LGV had been the first DLCs I have gotten loving all those, wish some Koln and Munchen got some extensions... so I am looking forward to seeing how the new timetable for Koln turns out ))
