Should Another London Underground Route Feature In Tsw?

The metropolitan or district line would be amazing

 

Just wanted to chip in my thoughts

I think the Piccadilly line would be the next London Underground route if they do one, it was mentioned as the secondary option to Bakerloo so as rated second best/ideal for TSW by DTG then, now it’s the first since Bakerloo was done.

 

I can see it that way, but TSW has come a long way since Bakerloo was released. I would imagine other Underground lines may have now piqued their interest.

I wouldn't mind either way though.

 

Shut the door behind you on your way out!

 

possibly, though issues of popularity on a line entirely underground and some of the lines in full have a lot of stations in comparison to TSW standards may still be off putting for those.

edit: personally the London Underground is quite on my wants so I would probably pick up every and any line to complete the collection.

 

Edinburgh was modelled perfectly imo, Glasgow and Manchester were done pretty well as well, i am a bit concerned as to how the Gospel Oak to Barking line will turn out, there is a really scenic viaduct section around Leyton and it is vital that they include the main buildings like Canary Wharf, Stratford and the City of London skyscrapers otherwise it will feel quite sparse and suburban which as an inner city line it really isn't.

 

Edinburgh & Edinburgh Waverley was quite a good one I thought, some discrepancies but nothing entirely bad.

New York has been quite a bad though with Trenton, the skyline being entirely missing on a scenic section over the bridge was a big miss in my view.

Others I’m not so sure on, they have been good but definitely areas to improve.

 

It's an interesting line but the trains are just too similar to the Bakerloo line trains and really slow, if they want to do a deep line i think they should go for the Central, i know that the trains are automated and all you have to do is press a button and the computer drives the train for you but you could still set up scenarios where you drive the train yourself, also the line has the advantage of some beautiful fields and woodland in the eastern section.

 

They could fix the skyline though it didn't really bother me as there is already a lot to see with all the lakes and highways plus you are already several miles outside of NYC, it's an interesting line though i haven't a clue about how well Newark is modelled as i literally don't know anything about the city. The countryside on the line feels accurate though.

 

I think the auto trains are a no go area for TSW routes/trains, they would be criticised as boring probably an awful lot, scenarios ain’t going to do away with that problem.

Personally I quite like D-Stock, therefore it’s probably the District line I would rate as a top of the list for me, don’t know why entirely, I guess I just like the train

edit: grammar

 

anything between the airport and NYC is pretty outdated as it’s brung across from TSW1

Newark looks pretty decent but not sure on a real life comparison, the age is quite noticeable if you have a look at the water texture used, the colour would probably give the Thames a better reputation

 

Auto trains is a no go, there'd be enough complaints for the commuter style route itself.

 

I think to be fair the Piccadilly would also be quite boring as you could only drive old tube stock on the route, i would always take a modern auto train over old tube stock as i find it more pleasant to drive, in terms of driving i do tend to prefer modern trains over old ones as they just drive smoother and you also get more interesting noises as opposed to the rather simple sound of older units. D stock trains i like and always enjoyed them so i would be a fan of a district line set in the 1990s perhaps with C stocks as well.

 

not so sure on the Piccadilly line myself, I quite like bakerloo so probably would think similar.

 

That's a common misconception, visually yes the trains are similar to the Bakerloo Line 1972TS, however the Piccadilly Line 1973TS despite being a year older is completely different mechanically. The Piccadilly Line trains use a completely different braking system - the EP Westcode Brake, whilst the Bakerloo Line trains use Electro-pneumatic (EP) and Westinghouse Braking systems. The 1973TS is also the first underground train to incorporate computers into it's operations, it has the first form of a Train Management System (TMS) seen on an underground train which allows for much easier fault finding, and has interior Passenger Information Screens (PIS), whilst the 1972TS is purely mechanical, no computers involved and only has audible announcements. So overall, driving a 1973TS would have quite a different feel to driving a 1972TS, though none of this you'd know just by looking at both of them.

(Side note one visual difference is on the 73TS you have the privilege of a cab door to get in and out without going through the saloon.)

I also love how on the Piccadilly Line trains the carriage ends have windows, which allows you to see the whole train twisting and turning while it navigates tight curves in Central London.

 

Strangely enough the cabs in Run 8 are a bit less complex than TSW, for example you don't have functional field generator switches etc.

It is pure US railroading so nothing like Ebula or similar and for passenger ops there are no actual timetables or scenarios set up. You essentially drive a train across the territory or the meat and bones tends to be the industry sub game where you leave cars on designated tracks to "load" then return and collect many hours later.

A good game, but not for the faint hearted or those who want to be hand held and spoon fed what to do. It's very much "your" railroad to play as you wish.

 

Interesting info i always love learning about tube stock as i have always lived in London and observed the driving and mechanics of tube trains, i would be right though in saying that the 73 stock does use the dead mans handle right? so it would be similar in terms of accelerating the train with notches rather than percentage of power as a 72 stock correct? The big plus on the Picc line would be the scencery too and the fast runs to Heathrow so i would certainly take it over the Northern line.

 

oh ok, nice... would love some of that in TSW (having stuff loaded onto wagons and then hauling them somewhere... but not a huge fan of US freight as for gameplay

 

Yes it uses a dead-mans handle, though you wouldn't get a different experience with any other line as every single train operated on London Underground uses a dead-mans handle including the battery operated engineering trains, only exceptions are the National Rail services which run on parts of the Underground. Only the newest trains - the Victoria Line's 2009TS and the Sub-Surface Lines 'S-Stock' uses dynamic throttle percentages though even these are on a dead-mans handle, so everything before the 2009TS uses throttle notches instead of percentages including the Central Line's 1992TS, Jubilee and Northern Line 1995TS & 1996TS - these have throttle notches even though it looks like one solid handle.

 

Interesting so a Central or Northern would operate similar to an Electrostar then? i personally prefer the notch system as it is more straightforward in terms of applying power.

 

I've never thought of that comparison but yes they pretty much are the electrostars of the tube

 

What is your obsession with stalking my posts? It's creepy. Maybe I should do the same?

 

For goodness sake who really cares that much about where the next UK route is set as long as it's a nice enjoyable drive at the end of the day? What's the point of trying to start another north - south divide over TSW4 routes which some people seem to be trying to do here. Seems we should all be a bit less tribal and learn to engage with whatever routes DTG and the 3rd parties produce for us, we don't have to buy them, that includes people moaning about the Goblin and the Bakerloo. My favourite route is Blackpool but I'm a Londoner (and proud of it) and have never even been to Blackpool, I like it because it's a such a good build with good rolling stock, not because of where it is.
I've not got anything against the north or northerners though just because I'm from London - I hope it's the same coming the other way. It seems that posts like this are trying to create a divide. I'm sure DTG have all this covered and don't need some Sherlock to point out just how many routes actually touch which part of the country and who is being allegedly snubbed". It's obsessive behaviour mate, you need to chill.

 

I'll admit I was a bit harsh there, I didn't mean to be, and will apologise for that.

I was simply countering what you said about there being only one London terminus in game, despite there being 3 (Victoria, Paddington and St Pancras) present.

Also Kings Cross and St Pancras are two distinct stations, connected only by an underground station. They are not the same.

What's your obsession with mentioning Kings Cross in every post of yours that includes London in some way?

Report it if you want, bearing in mind I've already apologised above, I am not attempting to start any fights here, nor is it my intention to cause offence. Also, I have a life, thank you.

For future reference, bear in mind that my posts may sometimes come across in a way that is unintended. I can't always put words to paper, it almost always comes out different to what I wanted.

Again, I will apologise for the harshness of my post. Have a good evening.

 

I don't see anything wrong with my post that you quoted here, I was not arguing against anything, nor trying to create a "divide".

All I was saying here is that there's still a lot of ground to cover up north.

Have a good evening.

 

There's a lot of ground to cover everywhere, i do feel the South does have a lot missing i.e overhead wire routes south of Peterborough(none currently and only G Oak to Barking in the development process) scenic mainline coastal routes like south Devon or the white cliffs of Dover(yes East Coastway does touch the sea but only briefly and it isn't an especially scenic bit of coast, domestic express routes, again none except for Great Western and South eastern high speed.

 

I intentionally missed the south out as that wasn't the focus of my post.

 

Understood though when they do the North i hope it will be a modern electric route, i think only 2 are based up northern England.

 

the routes covered by TSW currently is a tiny proportion in comparison to the whole network, on the basis of South & North in TSW route numbers the South outnumbers the North (especially the “Northern North” (using that term to avoid a conflict, my views on the north geography don’t go down well on the forums ) ) hence the calls for a North focus increase (not a south right off)

 

Well played haha

 

There's only 1 modern Northern route: Glossop. ECML technically isn't "north", as it runs down to Peterborough, and BCC is in the Midlands.

 

North is Lancashire, Yorkshire northwards so ECML would technically be northern for the final 5 miles or so to Donny, north Derbyshire is technically more or less the north as well so the route above Matlock would basically be in the north and scenerywise it is quite similar to the rest of northern England.

 

In regards to the ECML, I'd exclude it being Northern in any way (the TSW section anyway). Would help alleviate confusion against routes which are "fully north".

 

yes easy to say TSW4 ECMl route is a midlands route (justifying a Peterborough route is north is crazy), anything else I won’t comment as it will start a ton of replies among others etc

 

Midlands would be about right (specificzlly East Midlands), only the two end stations are north or south.

 

Yea majority of the line is East Midlands

(but yes I’m refraining on defining the region around Manchester and straight across on the east side of the country probably similar around Peterborough and straight across to the west side of the country, that will likely lead to “disagreement”)

 

Let's just say it most definitely isn't south.

Probably best this post be the end of this conversation, can't cause heated arguments now, can we?

 

ECML is a route which bridges the gap between the South and North, and runs through (and I always miss one off so do quote me and add it!) Cambridgeshire, Rutland, Lincolnshire (the best one ), Nottinghamshire and South Yorkshire, which to me makes it an East Midlands route, as all but Cambs and S. Yorks are East Midland counties and the route only begins/ends in the other two. East is very important there as I couldn't think of anything worse than being grouped in with the Brummies and rest of the West Midlands.

Long story short though, the North is still very deprived of routes.

 

In response to the OP because.....
Yes. In order of preference
District
Metropolitan
Central
Hammersmith & City
Piccadilly
Jubilee
Circle
Northern
Victoria
Waterloo & City

I prefer routes that go from the edge of London into a central underground section then back out into daylight. I make an exception of the Met because it's just a brilliant, historic line that goes from the oldest section of underground railway in the world to the leafy fields up in the Chiltern Hills.

Rolling-stock preferences;
Surface: T, Q, CO/CP, R, A, D, S
Tube: TS62, 73, 83, 96, 24

 

Think I'll add my preferences too

Piccadilly
Northern (1990's)
East London (2006)
Jubilee
District (Early 2010's)
Circle (Mid 2000's)
Metropolitan (2012)
Hammersmith & City (Mid 2000's)
Waterloo & City
Central
Victoria (2010)

Rolling-stock preferences;
Surface: A, D, C, S
Tube: 1973TS, 1959/1962TS, 1972MK1 TS, 1967TS, 1995TS, 1996TS, 1992TS, 2009TS, Standard Stock

 

Piccadilly used to have a small fleet of TS38s when it was mostly TS59s back in the mid 70s, I'm old enough to remember getting one on a trip to Heathrow (though the line stopped at Hounslow at the time) to see a Concorde trial flight. Personally I'd love it with a mixture of TS73 and TS24, throw in some 1938 stock railtour runs and we'd have the three best looking tube-gauge trains ever made in one DLC.

And any route with Arsenal in it gets my vote!

 

Can't believe I completely forgot about the 1959 Stock, the last trains on the Underground to be operated with a Guard! That's definitely near the top of my wish list for loco DLC. Adding it to my post, thanks for the reminder

 

Always love a new underground route... I´m in! Central or Northern Line would be my favourites.

 

Central line is operated manually under "coded manual" on a sunday so drivers do manual driving as well.

 

during that transition you also had the C69/77s still running on the edgware road - wimbledon section as well so there is no way they will do 3 stock for one route

A Welsh route is high on my list hope one day we see one in the sim as i love them on TSC

It is not called a TMS on the 1973 Stock it is called a TEP. TMS is what is used on the S stock

 

Thanks for that info and Jubilee? sometimes i have ridden on trains and they feel like they are being manually driven

 

Agree, I think the best hope for that would be a 2000s era one with C and D stock with the S-Stock coming later as a standalone. I think the Surface Stock lines are all unlikely given the amount of track, complex operations and huge amounts of scenery required. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

Jubilee and northern lines use the same TBTC which is the seltrack moving block system. That’s different to the one the central line uses.

 

Unfortunately, I think all of our wishes for an underground/subway/metro route are pointless because Matt has said they don't plan on ever doing such a route again due to how many custom assets and stations need to be built. It sounds like they think routes like these make for slimmer profit margins. It's a shame, but yeah it seems inevitable that we never get another route like Bakerloo.

 

It's a worrying stance because the same could be said about a lot of mainline routes that, from the Suggestions threads, seem to be popular.
This essentially rules out any mainline route that runs alongside an Underground or Metro route that uses non-Network Rail equipment.

Having been into rail sims since the early days of MSTS, there's a disappointing feeling that each new platform brings diminishing returns in terms of value for money. Now, you could say that more work goes into TSW because it has far greater functionality than MSTS. It's a fair point but it doesn't make me feel any better when all many of us want to do is drive a train. I've gone from buying DLC that covers a region of the UK or half of a mainline to 14 mile-long branch lines and unrealistic short runs in high speed trains. For new fans it may be great but a lot of TSW routes are pretty boring for rail enthusiasts and ex-railway staff like me.

I appreciate there's more nuance to it than that but I'm not a software developer, I'm a software user and a consumer. Other games and sims I buy seem to become more expansive and slicker in time, while train sim routes get shorter without a step-change in game performance. While DTG are working tirelessly to make TSW a success, it's clear they're not where Train Simming should be in 2024. Not blaming the current team at Dovetail, like in so many companies (mine included), the current team are probably trying to make the best of some poor decisions by former executives.

There's a good reason that there is so many new releases in TSC. My "consumer experience" being one of them.