Does Anyone Think Us Freight May End Up Being Dropped Like Steam Hasin Tsw

Digital Train Model, not TBT. Unless I missed something.

 

This video linked is proof show s FREIGHT is what rules the rails here in US hope people and DTG GET IT...matt should watch this and others Santa Fe jct is London Commuter for freight train s here in US there are other heavy freight Jcts like this all over US on all the Big rr s

 

Kansas City to St Louis is one of my favourites of the old SIAM signalling/dispatching games, particularly as west of Jefferson City you get the choice of running via Sedalia or the River Subs. Well Amtrak has to go via Sedalia. Lots of trains but of course the route in its entirety far too big for any train sim, let alone TSW. But KC to Jeff City would be nice, should a third party decide to take it on board.

 

mmm hard to understand what exactly you are trying to say

 

I have the london commuter route in TSW lots of commuter traffic on it..and lots of freight traffic at santa fe jct trains one after another running at times behind each other like rush hour on commuter route ,

 

Actually the amount of traffic on the rush hour london commuter route in TSW is impressive to me

 

Hopefully DTG can get more 3rd parties to step up and focus on delivering more US freight routes and paks locomotives freight cars liveries etc

 

Everyone knows that freight "rules the rails" here IRL. What matters for the game is what people buy and play in the game.

 

So from Chicago it runs through Sedalia to Kansas City?

 

Not sure on current routings but I think the St Louis to KC services were/are self contained though one might have run through to from Chicago…

Hang on, new tab on iPad…

Here you go:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...usg=AOvVaw0L6UDpznaLCSkCGN9CyWOd&opi=89978449

 

Are there statistics and a source that show that more people bought US commuter instead of US freight routes in the game?

 

No, we only have the statements of DTG who are obviously going to spin things a certain way.

 

What about the Southwest Chief?

I don't think it goes through St Louis....

How about something through La Plata?



100 miles or so (Cajon is 130 miles I think?) of rural beauty. 70 MPH running.

The Southwest Chief goes through La Plata.

 

Not sure on that as only going by a signalling simulation set in the 90’s. Hopefully someone more versed in Amtrak schedules will confirm. However sadly it remains the case none of this likely to ever appear in TSW unless an enterprising third party takes it on, or the public editor becomes workable enough for someone to attempt a freeware version.

 

Well, Matt, for starters.

 

I have vague memories of a Chicago-Kansas City Amtrak train, so this link was helpful, thanks!

So, the train I was remembering was the Ann Rutledge, which ran Chicago-St.Louis-KC until 2006, when the northern half was cut and St. Louis became the terminus. Then in 2008 it was merged with the Missouri Mules run as the Missouri River Runner.

Then in 2022, that was joined with the Chicago-St. Louis Lincoln Service as the ridiculously named Lincoln Service Missouri River Runner.

 

Don't Americans find Amtrak popular?

Once the LIRR is done, I would think some Amtrak trains would be great. Not that I am a fan. I guess I would enjoy it though. Do they do 90MPH in the P42s????

And something in the sticks like La Plata is similar style to the LNER ECML where it is away from major population centres.

And then we can run both UP and BNSF on it.

My other suggestions still stand.

1 Donner Pass

2 IC&E Chicago to Byron (with passenger (Metra but will be unbranded in TSW)) to Elgin)

3 Kansas La Plata route high speed dual line freight

4 Marias Pass with a 20-30 mile eastern extension for high speed and grain train running

All these have passenger options (does Amtrak run on Marias Pass? I know it does on Donner Pass!) And there are numerous special passenger trains on the IC&E west of Elgin which would increase the popularity and nostalgia of the Chicago to Byron rural freight route.

I haven't suggested any freight only route (except Marias maybe?) like Clinchfield.

Thoughts?

 

Very good proposal. Especially because they are very balanced. On the one side run8 mountain pass routes. And on the other side freight race track.

 

I asked for statistics. The statement from Matt I red already.

 

Just accept that long classic North American routes are dead in TSW. You are not going to get Donner or anything like that if the freight railroad operators are no longer cooperating with DTG. And if you just modelled the geography and Amtrak, no one is going to buy a semi fictional version with one passenger service a day in each direction.

Donner is covered by MSTS, TSC and Run 8 so not like you can’t experience it in a sim, just not TSW.

The best hope for North American stuff is going to be pure passenger routes but even then we know there are licensing issues and other than self contained rapid transit like NYC (in a wider sense as we know the subway routes will never happen) or San Diego trolley, Calgary Transit etc. there are very few that do not interface with the freight railroad at some point.

 

DTG should look into doing the BNSF San Bernadino sub has plenty of BNSF freight UP traffic and Metrolink that could be a best of both worlds route

 

I would more say if US heavy freight is off the menu, then maybe time to start looking at other regions which operate long freights. Australia for one, plenty of scope there if a little far away for research. But taking a heavy freight up to Moss Vale from Unanderra would be pure joy. Or something out in the west around the iron ore operations.

 

Feel like Matt would love Roy Hill's locos.


Also worth noting alot of older NA power ended up getting sent south to Mexico or South America.

 

I have watched some videos on you tube of Australia. Railroads there is some neat stuff there i like those old bulldog engines they have there some stll running now they called CLA CLF something. Like that they are EMD s clyde manufacturing they have a F Unit cab and a cowl like carbody there is one model built in early 70s sound like a SD40 engine in it Brazil has some neat heavy haul stuff there videos on YT for that

 

AIUI, the current issue with NA freight is not having access to real locos for photo/sound surveys. We have in part brought this on ourselves, with the constant bleats of "if you can't get real sounds, then don't do the loco at all!" Well, we got what we wished for....

But the fact remains that DTG already have a respectable stable of US diesel locos already made. There is nothing preventing their re-use on another route. However, I think that to break the "NA freight doesn't sell" wall that route would have to be a really good route, not a corner-cutting and disappointing route like Sherman and Cajon turned out to be. The question wrt Marias or Donner or Saluda or wherever is not the rolling stock, it's whether DTG are willing to put as much effort into it as JT put into Blackpool- or, indeed, DTG put into Sand Patch.

 

I just think it needs to be something away from the mountain railroad cliche and ISTR Matt alluding to that. Donner is just going to be another hour uphill/hour downhill drag with slightly different hill scenery and nothing new to add. Two runs over the Run 8 version (admittedly very poorly textured) and I was bored and that was with the appeal of serving industries along the way. DTG NA routes don't even have that.

 

Blackpool is one of the best routes. So much variety. So much great rework at the 47 and the MkII's.

 

I do feel that the lack of photos/sounds is a bit of a red herring. Are we really to believe that, in the opinion of forum users, most people would rather have no NA freight at all? I think it's pretty clear that most people could be satisfied with an occasional high-quality NA freight route, even if it reuses existing assets. Unfortunately, DTG is no longer producing routes of the necessary length and quality. If it were me, I would be making DLCs that are routes only, sell the locos separately and let some old stuff layer in. I would try to harness the unrealized potential of untied loco DLCs from TSW3, thereby both standardizing the game and making it more accessible/modular. But, it is not me.

I also find it hard to believe that the posts of forum users has such import with DTG so as to cancel an entire subset of DLCs. If that were truly the case, then the game would be a lot different that it is right now, because DTG would be so responsive to whatever we request. Of course that is not the case, so here we have a situation where the users are just convenient scapegoats. I remember once upon a time that if we wanted an M9, for example, all we had to do was ask. When we asked, do you think we got anything? Spoiler alert: we did not. In some sense it doesn't really matter, because DTG is going to do whatever they want and remain opaque about almost everything. But, let's not pass blame to the most avid players, who care the most, and also have the least amount of input and control. End of rant.

 

I think the numbers would be very interesting, but that's also the kind of thing that companies keep close so as not to help the competition. DTG has the numbers, and made their decision based on that.

 

In lieu of official statistics you can get a bit of a picture from TSW Tracker's activity rankings for the last 28 days. Obviously has some issues (self-reported, opt-in, etc) so it's not an objective count of what the whole community is playing, but it's a start.

 

When Cajon Pass is at No 43, it doesn't bode well for North American freight.

Crowdfunding may be back on the cards unless a philanthropist comes along and funds development.....

OR a community effort. And a freeware release.

There are several european routes being made with the public editor. I think the Frankfurt one is waiting for Frankfurt city assets as it is 80-90% complete. Doesn't mean the stations are bespoke though or buildings along the route.

 

I would love the Southern Pacific SD70M as seen in the Oil scenario in Steam Workshop and other SP liveries and of course Donner Pass.
I think the main loco for that route in TSC was the C44-8i SP?

 

C44-9W, though the route was an extremely poor representation of the Southern Pacific.

Not sure the route had a "main" locomotive for the route.

It included an SW1500, GP9, SD40-2 (Which the Southern Pacific never owned), SD40T-2, and the C44-9W. The rolling stock was also all recycled stuff from Cajon, with no unique pieces of SP stock.

In modern times, the route is terrible, especially with a better SP route being the Shasta Line on TSC....

 

It seems DTG.is working on some remasters. Hopefully they will happen and be good ..but if people dont get on board and like them play them etc then that could end up being nail in the coffins for US freight ..I think people being too picky demanding expecting everything to be perfect will aid the downfall.. I been playing my US stuff recently scoping over it even if some thing s not the best i still enjoy it..some that think its boring its how this stuff runs in real life ..there has to be switching ..you have to go up and down grades , etc ..Seems like the younger player s that dominate dont want or like the older trains they cant do without computer screens etc ...its like Geeezz how did those engineers run those trains back in the days ...they did took more skills i think the older stuff is more engaging challenging ..i dont prefer one over the other i just like to learn and run them all US UK etc ..diesel steam electric ..if that dont appeal then you not a real train fan..

 

I think the way forward is to ditch, as OldVern says, the "up and over the mountain" cliche and do something different, and I think that "different" thing would be local freight with mutiple industrial services and, yes, shunting. We got a taste of this auf Deutsch with the 363 services on RSN, and Clinchfield was a specialized take on the idea; but the real paradigm, unfulfilled, was what Oakville could have been had that route been given time to be really completed before launch,

Which brings us to the access issue: DTG are having problems, reportedly, getting access permission from the Class Is; but the US has a large number of shortline Class IIs and IIIs which do just what I have described: local freight and industrial servicing. They also tend to operate older equipment; and in many cases they have yet to implement PTC since they're exempt and thus that's another development hurdle DTG wouldn't have to deal with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shortline_railroads_in_the_United_States_by_state

(Incidentally, "short" is a relative term. For example, the Class III Delmarva's main line is 113 miles- a very long run by TSW standards.)

 

Just because it's low on the list doesn't mean the entirety of freight is affected.

Crowdfunding or a donation wouldn't work since you brought it up. Dtg can have all the money in the world but it means nothing. It doesn't make it easier to get reference material, get sounds or even make route building easier.

 

A combination of what Run 8 and Railroader offer with a nice short line could be a fresh start for US freight in TSW. Find a “fallen flag” or closed route and minimal issues with licensing. They might have to do a few hours research but one thing the US isn’t short of is old maps on the USGS website.

 

I did dm Milepost Simulations on Facebook about if they had any plans of developing for TSW in the future and what was said is they have one more route planned for TS and then they might consider developing for TSW

 

If you look in that statistic for the most sold routes, you will find Sand Patch Grade at Position 5. And for a company sales figures should be more important that play time. Because the first one brings the income.

It seems US freight isn't such bad.

 

Milepost simulations and High Iron with American stuff in TSW would be so great. They are strong in American Steam too.

 

The difficulty there is that Sand Patch was a base route in both TSW2 and the PC version of TSW2020. How do you evaluate "sales" in that case? Since LIRR was also a base route, I'm sure its "sales" were very high; that doesn't translate into it being a popular route!

 

You can watch in that statistics instead of player activity at DLC Ranking by Number of owners.

In that Ranking LIRR is on 16 and Sand Patch on 5.

Another reason why some say northamerican freight is not played so much:

We don't have a great choice of that kind of routes in TSW. We have 3 with a bit more realistic longer trains (SMH, HSC and CJP). So if don't want to play always the same routes you have to play other routes too.

 

True, but playtime is also an indicator of potential future sales of a similar route. They're both pretty important.

The interesting thing there is that the other two included routes, SKA and Bakerloo, are numbers 1-2, while SPG is down at 5.

 

Number 5 isn't such bad. Especially in comparison of the hyped LIRR (16). Especially because LIRR was part of the TSW2020 bundle like SPG.

And SKA is a very nice route. You have Highspeed, Commuting and Freight. LIRR has Commuting only so far. Perhaps in LIRR2.0 we will get the freight at some yards to make it more immersive.

Playtime:

Like I said before. We have 3-4 relatively realistic US freight routes so far. If you don't want to play always the same. You have to play other routes too.

Me for example I play a service from 1 route. Then I play a service from an other route. So it will never get boring to play always the same or same kind of routes.

Because real railfans like all kinds of routes and trains.

 

Interesting, but a bit disappointing. Milepost I consider the better route builder over HIS at this moment, and there is still a lot of potential for US routes in TSC.

But I'd rather have JL over Gary for a TSW 3rd party US route.

 

Now you just have me wanting to rewatch the Corredor Interoceánico episode of Well There's Your Problem.



The episode with 125s, Amfleets, and the guest tale of "That time we nearly killed the president of Mexico"...

 

I would rather have HIS over DTM

 

Unless HIS uses DTM locos like TSC...

 

HIS is a team of people, Gary's the boss and does research (he's written a lot of books on US railroading) and scenarios, Michael Stephan and Rick Grout (aka GreatNortherner/VNHRR and G-TraX) build the routes and stock, DTM additionally supplying locos (because no one else of higher skill is available), and others like William Campbell, and Smokebox contributing.

Add Jonathan Lewis and that's basically all the people that were involved in TSC's US content, often under different team names. ("TrainsAndDrivers" was a collaboration between Milepost and GreatNortherner, they did Alaska.)

First US route, Cajon Pass, and the Kuju US assets were done by 3DTrainStuff, then of MSTS and now of "Run 8" fame.

But all in all TSC's US content creators are a big family, with the same people grouping under various names for different projects.

 

I often wonder if 3DTS/R8 studios might not have a finger in the pie too, even though they would never admit to competing with their own product.