Enough Is Enough!!!

So they completely disregarded the fact 15 units have different headlight clusters. Cute. Whats with the devs and ignoring variations?

 

There is that, but then in the early days of TSW the main complaint was that there were no tools for the people who were itching to, and demanding to be able to, do it themselves.

The layers on older routes thing is understandable as it would need new timetables to be made for (and complete testing of) old routes, something that no older train sim had to deal with when releasing compatible stock. Players would just add it to their old routes in scenarios. That brings us neatly back to players doing that kind of thing for themselves. Of course player made scenarios and liveries aren’t everybody’s cup of tea and aren’t scripted entirely by the player in as much detail as with TSC, only being able to utilise paths that exist, and old routes just don’t have those paths. There is the editor but that’s no use to most players.

I can’t imaging a time when a new train comes out and it is made in every livery required and put on every route it is a match for, all free of charge. Rivet certainly aren’t going to make a layer for Cathcart as that was a DTG route. Layers are added to new routes using older released content but not the other way round, and it has always been that way with TSW until a rework is done. It’s understandable considering the work it would take for the devs.

 

They modelled the most common one or they just modelled the one they got the reference material from.

 

You probably misunderstood me - the existence of said tools is more than fine, using them as an excuse is not.

No older sim has to deal with layers because the timetable is unique to this sim, and frankly, it IS its selling point. TSW is built on the timetable mode. I wouldn't expect a unit to come in every color and layer everywhere, but with 170 in Scotrail, it should've layered to both previous Scottish routes without a hitch. Regarding the timetable rework they usually have a bunch of references to real timetables, so it shouldn't be that hard to follow it and add these in the gaps that DO exist. It IS extra work, but it makes all DLCs involved a lot more interesting for customers = sales. If reworking a timetable to add services into existing gaps is too difficult, then the system needs a rework.

Sidenote - Rivet was heavily involved in Cathcart, so it is to an extent their route as well.

 

I think you found the reason..

That doesn't really fit the minimum effort/maximum profit model.

 

Backdating new trains to additional layers on older routes provides an extra selling point, too. Certainly doesn’t seem a problem for the German developers in TSW when you look at the rich variety of trains you can see on their routes.

 

I assume that because of the different lengths the 170s can't be substituted into Edinburgh to Glasgow, but considering that's a problem in the first place is hilarious. For context, the Train Simulator substitution system, which can be seen in quick drive, works on a consist level rather than individual coaches, and works a lot better when set up right. If the substitution on EG and in TSW overall worked by loading an entire consist that means the consist that loads could be easily changed. Part of the reason the BR420 has been delayed so long is because of the need to make a new timetable to accommodate it on Munich to Augsburg. This really should never have been a problem in the first place.

 

It would probably be mayhem if the 170 simply substituted on E-G. It should be an extra layer; both termini have DMU services to Highlands that split off at the midpoint of the route.

 

Last thing I bought was Blackpool Branches and I had a great time with it but I have to admit, since they announced the end of steam and their apparent intention to supply nothing but present day commuter routes I haven't touched TSW4. I don't feel part of it any more, I'm not their target audience and my custom is not required. So be it, plenty of better things to spend my money on. Their loss.

 

I get all that and I would want that to happen too, and in an ideal world it would all happen, but it is all extra work that needs extra budget, especially all the extra testing required to make sure any additions to routes don’t introduce issues or cause crashes etc. If that extra work equalled enough extra sales then I’m sure the companies would be doing it and we would all be happy but I guess it doesn’t. The issue gets bigger the more routes a train can add into. The point that this has always been the case stands for this route and isn’t unusual.

The same developers for those routes as for most others, DTG, don’t add layers to the older German routes either. The variety there comes from loco substitutions, which are automatic, and the fact that nearly all trains are from DB. It’s a different issue not adding layers to previous routes, which we would all like. Later German routes have more stock to choose from to include in the timetable and therefore do have the extra layers but the older the route, the fewer layers there are, because layers don’t get added to older routes.

 

Let's not forget the DLCs cost more than many full games. Their asking price is very high, so what is offered should be substantial. We shouldn't go from "this route would be awesome" to "this route shouldn't be released now, because there's not enough rolling stock and nobody will do anything about it". E.g. E-G (haha) connects the largest Scottish cities and is now doomed to one EMU forever.

 

Just doing my part to get to 100

 

Let's not post here just for the sake of that. Share your opinions, ideas, thanks to DTG we will get to 100 anyway.

 

This is what I hate about the culture DTG have created and now third parties are following. They release something and then its dead to them. They as a team wont go back to revisit problems pointed out by the community instead we have to rely on an individual taking time out of their personal life to rework / fix routes. They probably dont even get payed for it. Theres bugs on certain trains / routes that are over 2/3 years old that have not even been addressed by DTG.

Unfortunately Rivet have now bought into this culture lets see how far it takes them.

 

Me to be honest, I haven't played TSW nowhere near as much since TSW4 came out, The way too early release of TSW4 & the evermore financial expense of just trying to keep up just left a bad taste in the mouth, The cost of living crisis has pushed gaming further down the list.

 

While I don't deny that older DLCs should be revisited more often and some outstanding bugs should be fixed, it's not true to say that they never do that as your message suggests. See here, here, or here.

Also, it would be more constructive if you point out what exactly hasn't been adressed for 2/3 years.

 

I’d love it if twice as many people liked train simulators and bought every TSW DLC so that the content could be much better but there just aren’t the player numbers for that and I would guess there never will be. That’s ultimately the limiting factor here. Some very respected members of the community who are also developers have explained how difficult it is to make content profitable. I just can’t think about how TSW would be in a world where anything is possible and have to confine my expectations to what is dictated by the realities.

I don’t think there is any way Rivet could make a long route with several new trains and make any money from it and the same goes for going back to old routes to add extra stuff every time they do make something new. It just isn’t possible. There are not an extra bunch of thousands of players waiting to buy a route that has two trains that won’t buy because it only has one. These people don’t exist. If the content was to contain more then the price would have to go up but that wouldn’t work because that in itself will result in fewer people buying. I wish it was different but it isn’t.

 

In a word, testing. It isn't just tossing out the old timetable and building a new one: then, every service in the new TT has to be tested. That takes a LOT of time, and holds up new content which also needs testing.

 

I feel very much the same way. For me, TSW is shrinking fast to a level where all that's available is and will be modern commuter lines which lack interest and variety and eschew any innovative content. The abandonment of steam and freight means that I will have very little reason to purchase anything this coming year.

I am finding other games and other interests to occupy my time at the moment, except for the odd run on one of the older routes.

I understand that many, maybe most of the player community, especially younger members, enjoys this shift to modern commuter and so that's where the sim is headed and so be it. It's a far cry from the freshness and promise of SPG, NTP and TVL. The "Blackpool Spring " seems to be short-lived.

I'm actually getting tired of constantly complaining about the situation and I think I'll just continue to read the forum rather than post in it unless something magical happens to renew my interest, which appears unlikely.

 

I just reinstalled X Rebirth having found a fix for the tiny font size on a 4K monitor, also X4 Foundations which I bought but never played much as like most Egosoft games buggy as heck for about two years after release. However, I’ve heard it’s much better now, some good walkthroughs over at Rogueys site so worth another pop. Only thing I need is a better joystick as the main fire button packed up on mine!

 

If boycotting includes not making any DLC purchases in over a year due to general disillusionment and disinterest, then yes.

 

Ill take all the modern commuter routes

 

This is why I won't, and haven't, bought any add-on until it's significantly discounted.

 

Bear in mind, though, that each DLC is it's "own game" if that makes sense. All that connects them is a core, otherwise they're completely separate to one another.

 

I have been far more selective...
Didn't buy NYC - Trenton.
Didn't buy Edinburgh to Glasgow.
Didn't buy (half) Berninabahn.
Didn't buy Maintalbahn.
Didn't buy sundry add on packs.
Not planning to buy Goblin Line.
Mulling whether to buy Fife Circle.
Mulling whether to buy Semmering.

In truth there's already enough DLC in my TSW collection that I've only scratched the surface of and that's without going into TSC, Zusi 3, SimRail, Run 8, Railroader and all the other non train related games. Enough to keep me going for years so needs to be something really good to get my money.

 

There are games which have spent the first year or two in development just working out the basics of locomotion. Specifically I believe Zelda Skyward Sword spent over half its development time just working out how they'd use the Wii Remote. It was the final two years being when they actually started to focus on the actual level design.

I was actually just watching this video on Half-Life Alyx a day or so ago giving some behind the scenes insight into what went into the shift-teleport movement option. VR development's obviously a bit different from "pancake" screen development, but it goes to show just how much thought needs to be put in just for the basics.

A game being able to share even the same basic movement from a prior title makes a massive difference in development time.

 

Sorry, I don't buy that whatsoever. They're clearly all part of the same game. The Nathan Drake Collection is formed of three separate games connected by a launcher menu, but they aren't one game and there's no way to say that they are - dozens of DLCs in TSW that all look and control the same and that need a base game to work are very clearly not separate games.

 

Not to mention asset libraries that can be recycled to generate content, etc.

TSW DLC is not its own game by a longshot, but go right ahead. I bet the devs love this kind of logic.

 

It's the only justification I can see as to why they leave them after release and barely return to them.

 

You're trying to justify something that's unjustifiable.

 

Would you be content if the phone you bought had software issues that the company were aware of yet refused to update them?

 

It's just a way of trying to make sense of it.

 

There's plenty of phone companies I can get one from so I would just go to another.

 

But the norm for a standalone game (from a professional, dedicated publisher/dev team) is for it to be patched and bugs fixed beyond launch – sometimes years beyond launch.

 

Don't. There's no practical reason for it, them not updating past DLC is solely their choice, and not the right one.

 

Maybe the only sense that can be made of it is that they don't care. They got the money, onto the next one.

 

Its a production line now, what sells fast on day one wins. At least the cards are more or less on the table, no more steam, no more BR Era (Unless its in TOC guise) No more anything remotely interesting. It was nice to finish my time with TSW with the Blackpool line which was a decent way of spending time but the time to move on has happened. I am back running an extremely modded version of TSC with a huge stable of stock half of which I didnt realise I had!!

 

Since when did DTG follow the norm?

 

I shouldn't. No point making sense of nonsense.

 

"BR Class 104 & Peak Forest Expansion pack has shifted into our “Release Date TBC” section."

At least this is still on life-support; any thoughts?

 

I'm hoping they've pulled it back to make it perfect.

 

Given all we’ve been shown is an image of the greyscale 3D model I’m guessing this is a long way off. Not dismissing as vapourware (yet) but like Thomas (sorry second Biblical reference today), I will believe it when I see it.

 

Do we know who SimTrack are yet? They said we would know them in the community in November’s roadmap but didn’t want to reveal themselves just yet. A bit weird but I thought because of the tease they were going to go public eventually. Not that it matters who they are but I am curious because of what they said.

 

Yes, we know about them. Some members are in the TSC Discord.

 

No more steam? I've been out of the loop, when/where did they announce that? Seems like typical dovetail

 

Check out the "DTG have abandoned steam thread" thats pretty much got everything in it

 

One of the devs announced it through discord and it was confirmed by dtg later on. Steam development is on hold for an indefinite time and 3rd parties will have to release steam content if they are willing to use the borked steam simulation

 

Just noticed that in the new sale, NY-Trenton is 80 % off after a year... yeah they're not touching that route ever again, are they?

 

Are you sure about that?
I remember one of the community staff quite proudly boasting that there were multiple tens of thousands of unique logins when Creator's Club was added to TSW2 so I think that point in itself suggests that back in the day there were more than enough interested parties at their disposal. Plus, the last three iterations of TSW have all been available to play for 'free' on Gamepass - a service with tens of millions of subscribers - so it's not like Dovetail Games have placed the game in some quiet little niche corner in the vain hope that someone may stumble upon it.

Look, TSW has had every opportunity to take itself to a much higher level but, you know, if folk are uncomfortable with a rigid pricing policy that only really appeals to a niche audience and/or not prepared to buy into something with a very distinct whiff of 'quantity over quality' emanating from it's bowels then you can hardly blame them for wanting to take their money elsewhere, can you!

 

Enough Is Enough...
Current Score in the Steam sale
TSC: Shelby to Havre, B&O Mountsin Sub, B&O H9 Steamer, Smokebox Big Boy, NKP Berkshire = 5.
TSW: Erm, nothing (after refunding Edinburgh to Glasgow) = 0.
TSC 5:0 TSW.
That might go to 7:0 in extra time if I add the Wasatch Grade and Rio Grande Southern later, if I can scratch a Steam Wallet card when SWMBO isn't looking.