Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! It's Almost The 3 Year Anniversary

off-topic? have you see the above? LOL

 

Let's get this thread to 100!

 

1 to 100.

That was easy

 

Wait, I thought we were on TSW 3.48!?

 

No, we're still on 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197.

Give or take.

Now if you'll excuse me, I want some cake.

 

TSW passenger system is not enough. It's TSW 0.314159 - an endless Early Access game

 

I really wonder, what the whole passenger logic in TSW looks like. Chicken in Minecraft are more intelligent than these

 

Had a quiet chuckle about passengers myself running a couple of Railtour scenarios over the weekend.

First was a steam hauled trip out of Penzance, which departed at the ungodly (and unlikely) time of around 0615. About four people on the train leaving Penzance. Wouldn’t even pay for the coal, well if TSW steamers actually used any - what! Also in reality between 0600 and 0900 the busiest time on the Up ex Penzance and you would not have risked a steam hauled service causing potential chaos at that time of day.

Jump forward to the first leg of Preston Docker on BPO. A lovely scenario and apart from another inexplicably early departure from Preston 05 something, a Class 20 hauled Railtour would be rammed to the gunwales with cranks and neds, some bellowing from the windows. But no, again less than half a dozen people on the train and no one got on at Kirkham either.

 

Perhaps it's on purpose - DTG tries to recreate the amount of passengers on these trains to be the same as the BR Blue era sales numbers... according to them. (btw nice post number)

 

When I started this thread, if you would of asked me if we would be 11 pages away from 100 by now..... I would never of believed you!!! Your all legends you really are, well the friendly ones are anyway haha!!!

 

I still dont get why trains are empty

 

I thought you were ‘done’

 

I miss the Jet Pack passengers but I thought I did see one recently ... he/she was so fast!

 

Clearly Enough Isn't Enough

 

To be fair, they actually are. Animals in Minecraft are coded to not walk off cliffs, whilst TSW passengers are more than happy to get off trains the wrong side or go for a wander on main line tracks. Plus, animals in Minecraft will run away from you if you hurt or scare them depending on the mob in particular, but TSW passengers never seem to get out of my way when I'm trying to walk down the platform.

It would be ironically funny if DTG locked this thread on page 99 solely to stop us from getting to page 100.

 

Don't give them any ideas.

 

Go on, read every post again, I dares ya.

 

ChatGPT did.

 

From my observations, when starting in a scenario planner service with a full train, right after opening the door on the 1st departure station, some 99% of passengers alight. They also don't want to board the train on the following station even if my train is the only one to come to the platform. I guess they don't like to be on a train when a human is driving.

 

wow when has this gotten to page 90

 

Be good if they could make them into a lemmings side game, they are about clever enough to be lemmings

 

Since this thread started, has anyone actually thrown their toys out of the metaphorical perambulator and boycotted DLC because they’ve had “enough”? Despite my occasional ranting I admit to having all TSW4 DLC on PC and most on other platforms. Looks like I will be DTG’s b***h until something better comes along!

 

That scares me

 

No boycott from my side, but as I am still on TSW2, newer DLC are simply not available

 

I think Tallboy might have something to say about his perceived roll in this conversation because he most definitely does not sit within the thread's "counter-argument" bracket and has never once "defended Dovetail Games' actions"

 

I still don't get why trains in depots are full

 

We're nearly there folks! 100 pages we're coming!

 

Haven't bought a single DLC for almost a year.

 

Still havn't bought TSW 4 and since I can't buy any new route for TSW 3 I havn't bought any new route for over a year now ...

 

Not going to boycott because overall I do enjoy the game a lot, but DTG's actions have had financial consequences for them from me.

Consequence 1: When the derail bug bomb was dropped on TSW2, I held off buying TSW3 until the promised fixes came out, so as not to incentivize leaving TSW2 behind broken. Sadly, not enough people felt the same, and that's what ended up happening. As a result, I never bought TSW3 or any DLCs until the Humble Bundle right before TSW4's release, which was the base game and one original DLC, and from which DTG saw about $7. I've got nearly every TSW2 DLC and saw many for TSW3 that I would have happily gotten, so that's hundreds of dollars DTG left on the table.

Consequence 2: With TSW2 and 3 in the rear-view mirror, I went ahead and pre-ordered TSW4 on the strength of the new and improved creative tools being offered, plus the other new features sounded cool. To keep it short, six months after release, promises should not still be promises. There will never be another pre-order from me.

I understand business needs mean walking a line and compromise, and I have often preached that understanding here. But the above two actions are too far on the other side of the line, and I don't see how anyone ends up winning.

 

well, they arent spotless, but I still buy the DLCs... yes, some had rougher starts (like those SPAD causing bugs on ALP46 on NY Trenton for example), but overall I have good experience... and Rosenheim Salzburg is quickly climbing my most ridden route chart, closely dogging Dresden Riesa and Hamburg Lubeck

 

I've been watching every stream of a route I'm interested in or a review from the trainspotter from tauranga to see if said route is something I consider buying. I do own almost every dlc by now since last year steam summer sale plus route bundles made most dlc I didn't have 70% off. however bad the response to bugs and communication and as it seems through that the incentive towards actually looking back at the products made and keeping them relevant is. TSW4 had some selling points that made me want to get it. but if TSW5 is going to be a thing later this year as many people here expect. and the "sell 90% finished route with one piece of rolling stock and 10 bugs where we'll fix 2 of and never look back" I'll stick to TSW4 and fixing the problems I find and changes I want through mods and my own time in the editor. boycott is not what I would do. I'll still pay for products I enjoy and can sink hours of time in. but like many people have been saying here. Salzburg - Rosenheim will sell really great and the Goblin line/Suffragette line seems to have way less interest. I'm glad I'm not so interested in america because that seems to be a community in desperate need of a new good route.

 

I think that one of the reasons why steam traction failed is due to the lack of involvement of qualified people.
The thread open to request feedback about the new suspension system particularly from Class 66 engineers, makes me wonder if only now they are involving them!?

Is DTG focused too much on cheap(read free) sources for its development?
Sounds, steam, eye adaptation, dynamic weather all point in this direction.
Then they get abandoned if the guess work fails.
Enough!

 

This is really annoying on BCC and BML.
On BCC everyone gets off at Birmingham NS and on BML everyonr gets off at your next stop and you run empty for the rest of the service

 

In this context it's not much different to searching for one of the posts on Google. You can find any of my posts if you put in the right search terms, although that would be a waste of time.

 

OK... I know Rivet is not DTG, but they're both very connected and in many cases on the same page. Just gave the new announcement a read... oh boy...

I know artworks are... well just that, art... but this view would mean the 170 comes out of the sea here

This well describes what has been said here before - "we won't do it, but feel free to use the tools to do it yourself". The fact there are no layers for the two existing Scotrail routes, is laughable.

I know this was in the Direct already, but it is especially funny to see it in an article about upcoming DLC, that you should buy another upcoming DLC to make this route more varied (reskin of an existing DMU btw).

Another example of that Panzerfaust style of DLCs (fire and forget) - not a bit of effort put into the existing content, DIY.

All-in-all it's more of the same, just more and more visible. But if people keep buying it, it will keep happening. Scotrail fleet grows, but the previous DLCs are left forgotten because layering would be too much work. Full Glasgow on Cathcart... naaah, E-G complete with Azumas and DMUs? Why would it? Does DTG/Rivet/Skyhook realise that layering back would perhaps sway more people to buy those DLCs? E-G was ignored my most because of how empty the stations are. The stock is coming in and the best you get is "use free roam, buy DMU again in blue"...

 

Come on, 90th page, let's get the final push!

 

Where is the announcement?

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/fife-circle-line-–-coming-soon.79658/

 

So they completely disregarded the fact 15 units have different headlight clusters. Cute. Whats with the devs and ignoring variations?

 

There is that, but then in the early days of TSW the main complaint was that there were no tools for the people who were itching to, and demanding to be able to, do it themselves.

The layers on older routes thing is understandable as it would need new timetables to be made for (and complete testing of) old routes, something that no older train sim had to deal with when releasing compatible stock. Players would just add it to their old routes in scenarios. That brings us neatly back to players doing that kind of thing for themselves. Of course player made scenarios and liveries aren’t everybody’s cup of tea and aren’t scripted entirely by the player in as much detail as with TSC, only being able to utilise paths that exist, and old routes just don’t have those paths. There is the editor but that’s no use to most players.

I can’t imaging a time when a new train comes out and it is made in every livery required and put on every route it is a match for, all free of charge. Rivet certainly aren’t going to make a layer for Cathcart as that was a DTG route. Layers are added to new routes using older released content but not the other way round, and it has always been that way with TSW until a rework is done. It’s understandable considering the work it would take for the devs.

 

They modelled the most common one or they just modelled the one they got the reference material from.

 

You probably misunderstood me - the existence of said tools is more than fine, using them as an excuse is not.

No older sim has to deal with layers because the timetable is unique to this sim, and frankly, it IS its selling point. TSW is built on the timetable mode. I wouldn't expect a unit to come in every color and layer everywhere, but with 170 in Scotrail, it should've layered to both previous Scottish routes without a hitch. Regarding the timetable rework they usually have a bunch of references to real timetables, so it shouldn't be that hard to follow it and add these in the gaps that DO exist. It IS extra work, but it makes all DLCs involved a lot more interesting for customers = sales. If reworking a timetable to add services into existing gaps is too difficult, then the system needs a rework.

Sidenote - Rivet was heavily involved in Cathcart, so it is to an extent their route as well.

 

I think you found the reason..

That doesn't really fit the minimum effort/maximum profit model.

 

Backdating new trains to additional layers on older routes provides an extra selling point, too. Certainly doesn’t seem a problem for the German developers in TSW when you look at the rich variety of trains you can see on their routes.

 

I assume that because of the different lengths the 170s can't be substituted into Edinburgh to Glasgow, but considering that's a problem in the first place is hilarious. For context, the Train Simulator substitution system, which can be seen in quick drive, works on a consist level rather than individual coaches, and works a lot better when set up right. If the substitution on EG and in TSW overall worked by loading an entire consist that means the consist that loads could be easily changed. Part of the reason the BR420 has been delayed so long is because of the need to make a new timetable to accommodate it on Munich to Augsburg. This really should never have been a problem in the first place.

 

It would probably be mayhem if the 170 simply substituted on E-G. It should be an extra layer; both termini have DMU services to Highlands that split off at the midpoint of the route.

 

Last thing I bought was Blackpool Branches and I had a great time with it but I have to admit, since they announced the end of steam and their apparent intention to supply nothing but present day commuter routes I haven't touched TSW4. I don't feel part of it any more, I'm not their target audience and my custom is not required. So be it, plenty of better things to spend my money on. Their loss.

 

I get all that and I would want that to happen too, and in an ideal world it would all happen, but it is all extra work that needs extra budget, especially all the extra testing required to make sure any additions to routes don’t introduce issues or cause crashes etc. If that extra work equalled enough extra sales then I’m sure the companies would be doing it and we would all be happy but I guess it doesn’t. The issue gets bigger the more routes a train can add into. The point that this has always been the case stands for this route and isn’t unusual.

The same developers for those routes as for most others, DTG, don’t add layers to the older German routes either. The variety there comes from loco substitutions, which are automatic, and the fact that nearly all trains are from DB. It’s a different issue not adding layers to previous routes, which we would all like. Later German routes have more stock to choose from to include in the timetable and therefore do have the extra layers but the older the route, the fewer layers there are, because layers don’t get added to older routes.