So I bit the bullet and purchased and installed TSW4. Had steam already and curiosity got the better of me! I'm gonna focus on the 710 because I've seen a lot of interest around its legitimacy and also some wanting to know a bit more about them considering the route itself is quite short. The route itself is pretty much perfect, even down to signal numbers. I have literally zero criticisms its that accurate. So hopefully this will add something useful! I've already raised the bad (and found a ton more now I've tried it, like poor brakes, pedestrian acceleration and DMI reflections that would drive me mad) but there is a LOT to like too. The attention to detail in some areas actually blows my mind. These screenshots actually look real to me.... Lets take a look.. This is a view I see very often. You'll notice this ONE wheel lacks any brake pads (or anything at all) We call it the Friday before closing time wheel. Nobody knows why it has nothing on it. But its hard to unsee once you see it..You'll also notice the four speakers above the drivers head. Each one has its own responsibility (GSMR, PIS, and two for warnings like AWS etc) The emergency headlight hook with coupler isolation handles. Really crazy detailing here. The height scale for the motorised adjustable DSD. The long black cutout is so if there is no power you can still adjust it by twisting a carriage key in the silver hole (It takes a few years...) The covered bolt holes on the floor. (The 710s nose is one piece and bolted onto the subframe) The emergency cupboard. The green dot is a tamper window. When its opened it moves and the poor Alstom guys have to check the full itinerary before it can return to service. Sorry guys... (We'll ignore that fact this is 345 software, the broken pantograph, dodgy headlight proving and the OTMR and ASDO non operational that would be straight out of service ) But you'll notice white dots to the bottom left of each screen and another top right. The bottom ones are light sensors for the screens themselves. They will automatically dim once a threshold is reached. Quite funny when you are going under bridges in and out of shadows and they flick between the bright and dim settings like a disco. The top right are sound sensors which do the same thing for noise. Sitting quietly? The AWS and Vigilance will be soft. Cab full of Trainees? It'll blow your head off... Overall the model of this train is unbelievable. The route even more so. It just needs some polish, sound tweaks, corrections to performance and indications and it'll be a winner. Here some interesting things about 710s that you might see or wonder/not wonder about whilst playing.. 710/1 and 2 coaches are DMS1-MS-PMS-DMS2 numbered 1,2,3,5 (Correctly modelled) coach 4 is an non existent additional MS coach that can be dropped in when the time comes to make them all 5 cars (Or 2X5 10 cars) for future proofing. You'll notice a lot of M's there. Yes, all coaches are motored. 710s sit in the top 5 fastest accelerating EMUs in the UK pipped only by Stadler's 755/3 which at 100% traction from experience literally will turn your stomach. 710/1 AC units weigh about 6/7 tons less than the dual voltage /2s. They feel even zippier. 710s dont actually have a "neutral". The "Secure" position is used when you want to leave the cab but want all the underlying systems and registrations to remain active. As long as you're present the train remains in forward (even at red lights) You can also take your key out in secure which is very handy, especially on mid route driver swaps. No more special master key thefts! (modelled correctly although screens should blank) During WSP activity while braking the Sand light doesn't illuminate (In the sim it does and IRL I wish it did too) Drivers don't need to leave the cab to reset anything anymore. Egress can be reset simply by pressing door close. PEAs reset on back wall next to MCBs. The DMS coach has two DOO cameras on the left hand side (not modelled) The second looks towards the front as there is blind spot in front of the drivers door (have a look at the camera location when you walk around the unit) So a 4 car actually displays 5 images. You see the same thing reversed essentially from two cameras and it is a little bit trippy! Noticed a few people talking about the GSMR...We don't actually register GSMR anymore. On the real unit once you enter a Train Running Number or TRN and signal location on the DMI (Not modelled sadly) it transfers automatically and populates the GSMR radio If everything is completely broken a 710 can still be moved using two buttons under the panel on the secondmans side..I kid you not. Literally go and stop up to 4mph (now you know what at the recovery mode is on the MCS) You'll notice some options disappear on the HMI/TCMs when in motion. This is by design so the driver cant fiddle with certain things on the move that could be distracting. The train correctly models a 3 step notched brake. Kind of.....Basically they are virtual notches and detents built into the handle. The actual braking system underneath is fully variable like all other Aventras, Desiro family etc. They were put in 710s only by request so the driving standards could remain the same across board between 378/710s. All drivers would have been on 378/172/315/317 which all had 3 steps making familiarity MUCH easier. As such, you can actually get the handle between the notches and use whatever you like which we refer to as "half stepping" There isnt even one flat surface in an Aventra cab other than the floor itself...can anyone guess why? Finally some driving tips Leaving stations, 50% up to 5mph (For passenger comfort) then smoothly up to 100% if line permits Straight into 100% is pretty brutal. Pulling anything more than 50% under 30 mph when its raining will slip. Trains are too powerful (Hopefully with a patch). Aim for no more than 25mph at station ramps. Brake Step 2 initial applications for stations Brake Step 1 just as train is about to stop so passengers don't go flying. 2 is very sharp. 3 is curse words and dirty looks as people get off. Minimum Step 2 holding brake at stations. Step 3 seldom used unless needed for adjustment (or everywhere on the this game until its patched ) 15X20 rule. No more than 15mph over AWS magnets for red signals and aim to stop 20m before signals Stop board centered in triangle side window. 8mph over TPWS at buffer stops (IRL they are set to trip at approx. 10mph) This is regardless of higher line speed in (Barking Riverside for example) Hope this is of use to you guys and I look forward to some patches soon! Really good foundation built here! Cheers
Loads of great insight there, just one question, is there a way to adjust the brightness of the in-cab screen?
Great insight. I mean despite my reservations I will probably pick this route up later in the year once it’s available with a bit of a sale discount. Maybe a stocking filler for Christmas.
Really good and useful insight here. Nice to hear how much they got right and good constructive confirmation of some improvement points DTG can make. I hope they do adjust the braking to be more prototypical, so it matches more what you have described.
Excellent insight and that has pushed me into buying this route! I look forward to playing it! It seems that DTG have really excelled themselves in general this time, which is great news!
Thanks for taking the trouble to post this - it's always great to hear from railway professionals about the game, and the driving tips in particular are a gold mine!
starvip Thank you for this excellent summary of your thoughts and feedback, and for also including a huge range of answers to some common community questions as well as Class 710 driving tips! I look forward to sharing this with the teams who worked on creating the route and the 710 model.
I have always wondered how accurate some of the stuff is, glad you have made this post it's really interesting.
starvip Super helpful - thank you! Always keen on real life operating procedures. (Might adjust the power handle's InputSensitivity because you're just to quick on 100% traction.) What's the Recovery reverser position for, and how would you set up the train for being rescued by a loco? Knob on the back panel to "Rescue", brakes to "Release"? Reverser to... ?
Hi, no unfortunately not. The screens brightness is dealt with by the light sensor. I did try sim at night and yes, the real train doesn’t glow like that at night. They should look almost identical to how they look during the day. They are coated in an antiglare material too so they barely have any reflection on them either. Reference pics always make them look very blue and brigh, Im guessing because of the way cameras pick up light used to take the pics. But to the eye they look the same day or night. Crisp, dark, hardly any reflection. Tried out the 801 suffers from the same thing.
Hi, Recovery mode essentially bypasses every thing on the train and allows you to move the train up to a maximum 4 mph for the purpose of clearing the line. Can then be controlled by these buttons, which live under the secondmans panel so long as you hold down the emergency brake release.. We aren’t briefed on loco rescue as in that situation Alstom and ROG would be in charge, only train to train. However, depending on the situation, both units would need to be in the rescue position on the isolation panel as a minimum. The Newest software update also adds an “Inter Fleet Rescue” option in the TCMs which should allow all Aventras to talk to one another on a basic level regardless of type. None of the above options have ever been used in practice. From a reliability perspective they have been pretty much bulletproof on the latest versions.
This is a TSW core issue, while ToDv4 system is based on real life lighting values, the displays are using a legacy pseudo lighting system, basically a texture whose green channel holds information about the emissive strength. The AutoExposure which is needed for the ToDv4 high dynamic range to shift the brightness range to values a monitor can display boosts these screens at night. They are not really emitting light, it's just a legacy method of simulating a lightsource not fully compatible with TODv4. You would need to emulate an LCD/LED display using real backlight sources which actually cast a lightglow. So these displays are always a "trickery" in TSW, suffering from the AutoExposure boosting the brightness when surroundings are dark based on the momentary histogram of the rendered frame. A fundamental issue, you have the new ToDv4 lighting which allows for really feeling the strength and brightness on a sunny day by shifting the dynamic range, while at the same time using emissive textures with a fixed value. Too dark in the sun, too bright at night. A manual dimmer setting is required for the game. GodMode allows you to tweak this. When driving at night, 200 instead of 2000 is a good value to use, also for the yellow Class 66 dial lights which are overbright in ToDv4 even at lowest dimmer settings. They are a ToDv3 relic - newer locos like for example the TSG BR 628 have ToDv4 compatible dial lights which are invisible in daylight, as in real life. Try to lighten up something with a flashlight on a sunny day, the surrounding light is a hundred times stronger than your lamp. That's what ToDv4 tries to simulate. More than 256 RGB steps of brightness by dynamically shifting the range which leads to overexposure of fixed value emissives.
Hi mate!, I know nothing but I reckon the wheel without brakes is for wheelslip protection, this way the train knows the real speed at all times. There used to be issues with the train wheels locking up therefore the train thinking it had stopped and turning of the WSP. To combat this they used to brake then release a wheel to figure out the speed and then brake again, i reckon with this train they just leave one without a brake so it has a constant data feed. I'd be interested to know yer thoughts
That sounds right, Wheel Slide Protection. Some traction I’m aware of have brakes on the leading axle but it’s automatically isolated when the cab on that end is active. The only time it applies is only if the train is in emergency (including loss of interlock) and possibly some other out of course scenarios.
That is a brilliant theory and one I thought initially myself as 345s have nothing on both sides of the front axle. Until on ours I saw the other side of that axle has a brake caliper! Its only the offside wheel..720s have a normal braked axle here aswell so its still anybodys guess! The above reply is possible whereby the brakes don’t actually apply unless needed, but it’s very interesting that they’ve chosen three different methodologies for three trains built almost exactly the same time. Perhaps because they run with different needs and have different top speeds there are slightly different requirements.
Maybe a bit stupid question starvip. How do you manage to uncouple yourself from another train? I mean, the couple button is there... But the uncouple one? Thanks in advance!
Is the procedure given in the scenarios to shut down the cab correct? - when taking over a train, both ends have their brakes set to B3 - In the "Stock OC" scenario, you're told to put the brakes in Emergency when switching cabs.
Haven’t tried the scenarios yet, but no that is incorrect. Putting any TBC in any cab, active or non-active will put the emergency brakes on. On the real train you would get to the other end, key on and an active event/fault banner would politely remind you that TBC has been left in an emergency in a non active cab followed by an embarrassing walk back.
I thought so. I was unsure because the old Diesels have a Shutdown position past the emergency, but that's handled by the electronics today instead of the old mechanically operated loco brake valves. "Embarrassing walk back" yeah I can feel that
No-one that I can see has yet ventured an answer to this so I'm going to throw out a couple of ideas: 1) avoiding sustained glare from reflections on panels during bright sunlight? 2) in the unlikely(?) event of spillage, the surface curvature directs the liquid away from electrical switches and similar? Huge thanks for the very informative post by the way, much appreciated.
I also find it interesting how different the Aventras are, our 701's are their own breed of strange, not that I've been close with them, I only mainly deal with the 455's XD
I’d say it is so that you can’t put a cup of coffee, a newspaper or mobile phone down anywhere. I took ‘flat surface’ to mean flat and level surface.
Number 2 is the right line of thought! It discourages you from resting any sort of drink/food on any surface anywhere as it wont balance. Thus the chance of spillage into wiring looms and controls is nigh on impossible. Know someone on the 700/717s and they love to remind me about their dinner table And you're very welcome!
Good stuff! Its funny the 345 braking techniques mention about braking needing to be slow and smooth because of the instantaneous response (which is true) and there we are on 710s jumping between 33% 66% (Step 1 and 2) in less than a second... This is why the 3 step on an Aventra while logical for the reasons mentioned for familiarity is all well and good, its pants for passenger comfort. Anyone who's been on one as a passenger will tell you how jerky it feels when braking. Because the TBC detents are so strong getting anything in between takes alot of perseverance and patience so 95% of drivers don't bother. Im sure people think we do it on purpose
My passengers on all my trains will like it or lump it when i go from 100% brake to notch 85, and emergency brake 500 yards from the all car stop on the platform They get there early so there's nothing to complain about
starvip Hey! I think it would be awesome if you make tutorial videos showing us how to realistically operate the train and the route!
Watching you give feedback is the best thing I've seen, I don't think I've laughed so hard for ages (laughing at the jokes can I point out and not at the feedback of course) and having a guess at your question, it's to have everything more accessible to the driver as more of a 180 degree type of view from left to right and having the screens and buttons etc angled for again more accessibility. (i'm hoping that's what you meant anyways )
Thank you for your knowledge on this. I did wonder, the 20mph speed limit between South Tottenham and Blackhorse Road is that still in being observed in real life as I was on a Goblin train the other day and noticed that it didn’t slow down in that area at all.
As a Londoner and Overground fan I grabbed this at asking price . It’s a nice route and a dlc worth getting even before discount. This unit is pretty unique in the UK as well. I just hope DTG make the most of their TFL license and give us a longer route for this beauty, and also add the 378 and 345 as well. The 378 should be the unit abutting Gospel Oak.
[QUOTE="starvip, post: 813511, member: 16952" Leaving stations, 50% up to 5mph (For passenger comfort) then smoothly up to 100% if line permits Straight into 100% is pretty brutal. [/QUOTE] The light rail rolling stock in my city have similar acceleration amounts, and I know for a fact almost every operator "guns" it leaving a station, you can see through the cab window and the speedometer is always on and it looks exactly like when im maxing the 710. I used to make a game of staying upright without holding on or sitting as a kid. The operators dont stop nicely either, imagine going from 55 to 20 in about ~7secs. Sacramento light rail if anyone is curious its a rollercoaster disguised as a train as one person said
"There isnt even one flat surface in an Aventra cab other than the floor itself...can anyone guess why?" Is that to stop you putting cups on the desk?
okay so realism question. I am personally a bit surprised that TSW works this way but it does, and I'm skeptical that the IRL units work like this 1. Come to stop at station normally in an appropriate TBC braking position. 2. Open doors. 3. With doors still open (or closed but not interlocked), move TBC to any power position 4. Close/interlock doors Result: train will release brakes and immediately apply power without any further action This....seems odd. I feel like the unit shouldn't apply power unless/until the TBC is moved to neutral first. Obviously the operating documents above clearly show that this is not a realistic operating procedure but still
Something I noticed while running this on the Watford DC Line, are the doors meant to close themselves after a minute or two? The door indicator on the HUD still shows them as open but they definitely closed all by themselves! It’s a lovely unit to drive though, I get what Matt P was saying on the preview stream about spending hours going back and forth, very easy to do! Thanks for the insight, very interesting!
Passengers would still be able to open the doors by pressing a button until the driver locks them, but they obviously don't do that in game.
I also noticed ASDO being off, what is it exactly? I figured since it doesnt have a switch it isnt necessary in-game but I guess IRL ASDO and the other one are sth important?
I believe ASDO stands for Automatic Selective Door Opening. I think what it does is automatically open the doors that are on the platform to prevent passengers opening the doors trackside.
