Okay, so for reference here's the actual northbound timetable for the line with the services not included in the game marked in red. Note that the game often doesn't match reality with regard to which services are for Dundee and which are for Perth, and in a couple of instances the departure times from Edinburgh have been changed as well (e.g. in real life 1L25 departs at 17:52 for Dundee, in the game it departs at 17:58 for Perth).
I know people are stating that the 158 should fill in the service gaps and add more hopefully. But IMO it shouldn't be taking a separate developer adding in another £10+ dlc into a route just to get a half decent timetable. That shouldn't be an excuse for Rivet to lazily slap dash a timetable together. I know they're working on other services to add in thankfully but it should've been there from the start. We shouldn't be parting with £30 on the promises of patches to come? If I buy a main course at a restaurant I dont want them to come out with half a plate of food and say don't worry the chips will be done in another 20 minutes. I hope they do put the work in but the thing that worries me is that it is you can't trust Rivet and they've never given us any reason to think otherwise. Although this is my opinion and I respect not everyone will feel that way.
Around 120 total services, 39 of which are missing. That makes only 81 playable services currently (not counting ECS or other movements). Do those missing 39 services use the Class 158? If so then understandable why they're not there. Just an observation.
Hi Does buying the Edinburgh - Glasgow pack allow for access to more platforms at Edinburgh Waverley, I have been having trouble with creating a scenario with the Scotsman finishing there as the available platforms are too short.
minus the details of them sorting it out in such a case, i don’t think the issue is rivet cant, it’s just rivet didn’t.
The empty depot alone is a reason for a sale purchais to me. In 3- 4 months fife circle is on heavy sale and i might buy it then. Not so sure now, because i was enjoying to buy JTs black pool branches, but Rivet took again my "appetite" for this route with their minimalism and unprofessional blindness / behaviour. In short: for a top quality fully recreated fife circle with immersing timetable, im ready to pay 60 bucks at day 1. But this peace is noth worth my time especially with Rivets incompetent behaviour in a way like "what exactly is wrong with our product?". My expectations are based on routes which were released for TSW past 5 years and gave me 100s of hours of an interesting experience, so im not critisizing things which were never achieved in TSW, but as a loyal backer from 2021-2023 of all devs, im critisizing Rivets ignorance and pretending to have made a so called "learning curve". Yea its so much effort to put a few 170s on haymarket depot. Im popullating it in less than a minute via freeroam and by walking around on foot. For me this is the definition of blindness or lazyness
Yet to explore more of the route, from what I have seen so far, I'm happy with my purchase, the working escalators are a bit of fun, shame the lifts don't work.
Definitely thinking sale purchase. Seems from reading the comments here and the feedback thread, not as bad as we feared but could and should be much better for the price. Well if Rivet make the promised improvements and there is some sort of bundle or package when SHG release the 158, maybe then. For now the TSC version will suffice. And of course the rub of it for Rivet/DTG is, all of us waiting for a sale by the time it does get discounted the big summer/autumn releases will be on us. Maybe a juicy and high quality in house route like ECML to get our teeth into. Fife Circle will simply be overshadowed and forgotten.
I suspect what will save this route is many people want the 170... and will buy it anyway so they have a 170 to reskin for every other British route. Rivet knew this so didn't have to make a massive effort this time to get the route right. Plus many folks will buy any and every British route such is the nature of Neddism within the British rail fan community. So I suppose we get what we deserve.
The route should of been put back for release should never of been released the state it was in just like the MML was but atleast Skyhook fixed it and it's a great route now I really wanted this route but I simply can't buy it till improvements are made if they will be I don't hold out much hope though
Except that Minecraft or Fortnite while they aren't realistic looking stylistically do in fact look good. The former especially is purposefully aiming for a 3D pixel art look, it part of that look might've been done for limitations, but it does looks very unique and charming for what it is. People aren't buying it to test their high-end systems like they might with MSFS or Cyberpunk certainly, but I have a hard time believing they are playing it in spite of the graphics as you suggest.
My applause for everyone that went ahead and bought it anyway. Let’s hope your selfishness doesn’t hinder further routes. you had a chance to make a real statement and take a stand for better quality, but as per usual caved. Disappointed.
I'm holding out but it won't make anywhere near as much of a statement as it would have if people could have just held off. There's no guarentees of what will be fixed, and now they have no real insentive to.
Usually, I'm an advocate that everyone should self-decide whether they get it or not and am really not a fan of harsh statements like that, but in this case, it's simply just so true. I personally can understand every local resident wanting to buy the DLC anyways of all the issues discussed. Absolutely not argueing about them, but especially for the ones which stated all the time in the last 6 days, it wouldn't be worth even a discount it kind of seems hypocritical so easily going in their knees once good reviews arise. People, judge for yourself and don't get influenced by others. And this is true for even both sides of the argument.
It's the car crash syndrome. No matter how much people say they will drive past and not look at the mangled bodies, they always end up doing so. Anyhow, unlike Goblin where my initial hold out was softened by the good reviews and actual experience, Fife Circle is a red line I will not cross.
Ran a service last night, I would definitely recommend it as a sales purchase, alot of the prominent issues, seem to be console related. The one I picked had a decent number of AI, picking up a number of 170s before the Forth crossing and at least 3 after on the Dunfermline branch. As well as a 385 heading to Glasgow and an 801 heading south between Haymarket. The lack of airport is, obviously, an issue, alot of the empty fields aren't that noticeable when in the cab either, but I have a feeling that'll change now Rivet have 'committed' to fixing it. I'm also going on the fact that I suspect there will either be a whole new timetable, or at least extra services added by the SHG 158. (Who knows, SHG may even add it in as an AI layer to EDN). It's obviously not the best route ever made, but it's certainly not been the train crash that the preview made it out to be. A solid 6.5/10.
Excellent route, very good-looking and immersive; after the preview stream I was a little skeptical but wow I would compare it with the first experiences on SEHS. Well done!
This is the problem though, why waste time making a finished problem, when you can just half ass it and people will still buy it?. It's just enabling them at this point, the route is clearly unfinished, and will likely remain that way.
Your saying it like your proud of it and being edgy, It's the community trying to drive for better quality, if your proud of getting a poor product instead of getting something actually worth your money, that's on you...
it isn't good, unless you're not a local... The real route is a super fun and busy connection to the north with some great scenery ( like the airport flight path)
Many moons ago, I was heavily involved with making freeware for FS8 and 9, produced lots of products, full planes, scenery, paints etc, I also did work for a number of payware companies, but I digress...... There is no way we'd have let something like this out the door, even for freeware, I understand that there are financial pressures, but it's almost like people just don't have pride in their work anymore, and just do the minimum required.
I worked hard for my money, the 170 is something I've been wanting for years. I tell you what, when you pay my wages and control my finances then you can dictate what I do and don't purchase.
My thoughts exactly. Am I being harsh, maybe. Is it the bearers money to do so what they wish? Definitely. However you are saying you will buy whatever will be released regardless of quality or finished state. So the problem will always remain. Rivet will always take the stance of just enough or worse if they know the outcome will be the same. There’s no incentive to be better and do better and no incentive to even fix. It’s a sad state of affairs really.
I assume... I believe... I can imagine... Unfortunately, these are all just guesses and Rivet has not committed to anything, except that DTG spoke "succinctly" in its statement about good cooperation to 'improve the experience'. Advertising language. No clear statements! Coincidentally, this 'statement' came shortly before publication and they probably just wanted to calm the waves of the angry community. As long as there is no clear roadmap with all the improvements to be made, I don't believe in further major improvements due to Rivet's attitude towards the community. At some point the 158 will be added and a few more scheduled trips, that's it. To really improve FCL, more in-depth work would be needed. It starts with the road design, the scenery construction, the bad textures everywhere along the route, the ugly copy-paste rocks and houses, the empty Forth Bay with no life at all, the lack of an airport and eventually ends with empty depots. A lot of work and I can't imagine that the same effort will be made here as was the case with MML. Rivet has zero insight and will not be so in the future. Eat or die, anything else is wishful thinking. I think that's such a shame because FCL could have been such a great route.
That’s cool bro. Don’t be complaining in several months when fixes and improvements haven’t materialised.
It just sends the wrong message, it's the sole reason why the quality has taken a dip, and will continue to do so. Of course, spend your money how you want, but at least have a think about the message that sends, I haven't brought the product, but I watched a few hours of streams, and the quality just is not consistent with a £30 addon.
I’m sorry, the community is its own worst enemy. We constantly see comments saying “I’m not buying it” but they do anyway, I haven’t got a problem with this. But some people protest far too much, it doesn’t really achieve anything. Let’s face it the second it was announced Rivet were building this route, people were already negative without seeing as much as a screenshot. It’s become cool and edgy to say that any Rivet product is awful. I was forced to eat my words on this route, I was very pleasantly surprised. There’s a lot of work to do, and after hearing about all the issues with the scenery, that’s the least of my worries. It’s not bad at all. The timetable is the let down, for this route. I hope it will be addressed, whether that comes with the 158 release or separately.
You do know they don't get paid by sending out fixes and improvements don't Ya. Only in sales, if there's no sales, they don't get paid, which means job losses and no more DLCs. That's how it works.
But I don’t get your line of reasoning. Two out of three core components by your own admission are not good enough but you went and bought it anyway and you say it’s ok? You like the train model as do most so that’s a win. But surely the timetable is the life blood of the route? And surely the locations a train passes through are really important to the experience? I’ll never understand it.
So what is their motivation for finishing an unfinished product? The whole "either eat this rubbish or you'll get nothing" is a terrible argument, if the company isn't producing a quality product then they don't deserve to be in business.
If you lose your job because you are bad it means it’s your own fault. should you get paid for putting low effort in? If I rock up to my work and stop producing what do you think will happen? Will my company pay me through empathy? No chance. Again your argument is weak. Or are you one of those who worries the franchise will always be on the verge of being sunk unless you support it no matter what?
It does not achieve anything because there are still enough people purchasing new content regardless of its quality. And Fife Circle has become the best example for that. It's the vicious circle with no end. I said I'm not buying it, and I will do so unless fixes and upgrades happen. No, not true. It was rather the opposite for me personally. I was really surprised by the first screenshots. I have no background history with Rivet to being upset with Rivet as I'm a relatively new costumer. But the missing of scenery and timetable just speaks words for itself. Noone should deny that regardless of whether they're are going to purchase the DLC or not, but obviously like I see in your next statement, it happens though... Agree to the timetable, but saying the scenery would not be bad at all is almost an insult to every other developer inside and outside of the TSW franchise. Can't believe everyone who's saying there would be no issues at all. I mean just look at the airport. There is not even a runway placed on it, grey asphalt is painted loveless on the ground. Saying the scenery would be "not bad at all" is literally unbelievable, in my opinion.
This is actually a really big issue in many industries, productivity is on the floor, half assing and doing the bare minimum has become the norm.
I haven't bought this route yet, and won't be doing for a few months yet. Mostly because I'm waiting for the ScotRail 158 and also the timetable doesn't seem to be what it should be, which is the main selling point to me.
So, Do you stop using takeaways if a meal isn't up to your standards or do you go back? What if a triple AAA game isn't upto your standards? What if a service you use isn't up to your standards? Do you just stop using them? Stop giving them your money? Or do you carry on? I don't give a toss if you're keeping your money in your wallet, it's your money. But don't be a hypocrite.
Ok, next time you get cold fries from McDonald's for example. Stop using them. When a Taxi is five minutes late, stop using them, when your broadband stops working fast, stop using them etc etc. Put your money where your mouth is.
Hey everyone, just stepping in as I can see a lot of heated comments, please remember to keep it respectful and civil. Both sides of the argument are valid, no reason to belittle those that do or do not want to buy the Add-On. All the best, Jan
So that literally means they can provide a DLC of a quality of their choice, and we need to support them by purchasing it because, if we don't, we will see no further content from them? In other words: Paying for the existance of the company and their products, doesn't matter what they are producing. In any other businesses, this premise would mean a death sentence because there is no other reason than just pure sympathy to the company, but the reason from a costumer to purchase a product for its listed price per se, isn't provided anymore. I stop using them or don't even purchase the product in the first place, I don't care whether they will go bankrupt, it's their problem, not mine (I have my own ones). If they can't deliver the thing in the amount I have to pay for it, they don't deserve to exist in the hard business world. This may sound harsh, but just is reality everywhere else, unfortunately. Why should we make an exception here? And I also don't get how this has something do with hypocrisy. I want new routes yes, just as everybody else here in this discussion, but the quality after all also has a value to the decision. Way too many companies seem to have completely forget that.
