Definition Of Laziness: Rivet

Well, what to say about this utter mess called Fife Circle Line? I got the route, right into the Route Introduction I see this ... I don't have any words to describe. Sorry but after what? 25 seconds of launching the route I see this thing I quited the game and already asked for Steam refund, this a really shame to you Rivet Games really shame.


Ah btw, I guess in Scotland they don't say pigeons anymore, thanks for making me learn Rivet, thank you so much!

 

As for the empty PIS, that's normal in TSW and only works in Timetable mode (not Fife specific). The introduction is a scripted Scenario without a timetable, so it can't show timetabled departures / arrivals.

Why that should be the "Definition of Laziness" I don't know. Station is gorgeously modelled.



Nice one. I like that laziness

 

I think the OP is referring to "pidgeons"

 

Yes, that could also be, a laziness-defining utterly messy typo - instant refund. The empty PIS boards are probably not the issue here, funny I thought it was about them.

 

DTG's work also tends to have fairly frequent spelling and grammar errors.

Mind you, I've seen the same sort of thing in AAA games - copyediting does not seem to the video game industry's strong point.

 

Don't be too harsh. I always get my mucking words in a fuddle.
(And I've also just destroyed the TSW Editor and will probably now need a full install).

 

Thanks Jamie!

 

Does that include non Fife Circle services? The screenshots I’ve seen have had a lot of blank destinations for the non drivable services which does make the departure board look pretty poor.

 

The spelling aside, those notice textures look too bright and sharp like something we would have knocked up quickly in old Paint Shop Pro 7 for a MSTS texture.

 

If spelling errors are a reason to refund routes we’d have nothing left to play. Just noticed this:



Also a Rivet route (Island Line 2022, Blow Me Away scenario) but that’s a coincidence.

 

A bit over the top in my opinion to refund a route because of a spelling mistake! Hardly lazy I would say. I bit of a weird post in my opinion, was the route ever likely to last the two hour refund window if the poster is that fussy! I presume they have seen all the threads and the furore regarding the route.

 

Great profile pic, I have to admit I am envying you.

 

Definitely don’t agree to be that picky over a spelling mistake or 2 etc, everything spelt wrong that’s a bit worrying but refunding a spelling mistake is going beyond reasonable and rather taking the mick.

to me that just says they bought it to refund it…

 

Spelling errors are just mistakes that happen.

Nothing to do with laziness, I'm always making mistakes and often do not notice until its too late.

 

oh I definitely do, for some reason especially on the forum, I’m a bit too lazy to read back over what I put so I click post and most often have to edit it to fix it I’m probably the forums edit button’s number 1 customer

 

Spelling errors are just like any other mistake, they're a QA failure. Someone who can't spell is checking the work of someone who can't spell.

To me, spelling mistakes are a sign of a general sloppiness. Shouldn't happen in a public release.

 

Well, I for one would like to thank StenioBlackHawnk, for bringing back the term "quitted". I had to look it up and found out that that particular archaic version of the past tense of quit is legitimate.

 

Spelling mistakes are human, I agree on that.

However, what makes me think about is that in a not so cheapy product to sell like this with said to have several Beta testers is that after the weird incident that neither the developers nor Beta testers found it, my impression firms more and more that there absolutely does not seem to be any kind of further quality control of a DLC, before it's being released or publication material is provided to the public mass.

I'm not with OP to say that a spelling mistake is a reason for a refund, however it concerns me tough how spelling errors so often can appear in products, which are faily not a one-time consumable and quite have a decent price to pay for it.

A DLC is also not a 1000 page bible to say, "Okay, we got no time to read through it all and dependent upon the amount of words, it's reasonable that there are spelling errors somewhere in between".

 

I'm not convinced that Rivet were lazy. I know I'm usually very critical of TS and TSW when needed but I think that the theory the route was rushed for the end of the financial year (possibly because of an issue regarding the upgraded Long Island Rail Road) is one I think is credible. In Train Simulator I've built a lovely route that looks a lot better than a lot of payware ones in both TS and TSW, but I haven't had any deadlines to meet to get it released. I expect Rivet had about half the development time they needed or thereabouts, so I'm not surprised it is the way it is. It's not acceptable mind you, but I'm not going to blame them, and certainly not the developers who clearly got the (very) short end of the stick.

 

It's not the first grammatical error on a Rivet route. WCL still has one of the station signs at Truro with a lower case letter which should be upper case. Pointed out but nothing done, of course. I would say sloppy rather than lazy and again makes me wonder if the route and asset building is at least partly outsourced to parties who do not have English as their first language. However someone ought to have picked up on it. Agree though, not really a reason to refund or not purchase the route. There are far more pressing issues taking care of that.

 

As a game translator, I know that there will always be mistakes that you only spot after buying the game itself and playing it. But most of the times they are context-related. DTG does have a tendency to leave linguistic errors in the English version of the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if these texts are not (always) proofread. This spelling mistake could've been avoided by using the spellchecker. (Pretty wild to refund a purchase over something like this, but okay.)

 

To be fair, I do tend to suffer from a windy storm when my serval is blocked.

 

I'm suprised they can't be open about that. if they would've said "hey it's not finished but we are going to bring all these changes in later and are on our list of priorities. we are short on money but would appreciate it if you would buy this dlc in it's current state to support development" (early access games like Derail Valley did and are currently doing that very well. A clear roadmap, good communications and community that is listened to) that is something I'm willing to invest in. especially seeing how bernina turned out. sure it's not the entire berninaline but it's pretty good for what it is and made me have faith in rivet again.

Now we are told they worked so hard on it being withing performance marks. saying it's funny we think we can do better ourselves (personal opinion of Jasper and not company related.) and all out being told this is fine when 90% of the community clearly has so many problems with it they are willing to not buy this dlc or boycott rivet entirely. The route looks better since the rushed fixes and on a good sale where it's below 20 euro's I'm willing to give it a try. but one MU and a rushed route is not where I want to spend full price on. waiting for a possible bundle with skyhook's 158. speaking of, that's a developer actively listening to the community and doing all they can and being clear on what options the community wants are too difficult or impossible to implement like nameplates on HST's. there's a clear difference in quality with third party developers and dlc. the community adressed this very clearly the last week, and I am suprised no clear statement is out or any communications about what's up.

It's all vague hints and maybe's. on new dlc sure hinting might be a good way to tease it. but don't tease about problems that can occur. those happen and I have no clue what is so secret about them. Just like LIRR 2.0 leaks. I don't see the problem with saying that it's nearly finished or what it'll be and being able to mention all holding you back is licensing issues. wondering if that route will even be up to TSW4 standards or if it was build on TSW3 and now shelved because of issues.

 

Must be a "I cant find anything else to complain about" day/

 

I wondered that too especially with the anger over the route. A spelling mistake would be the last thing to be annoyed about.

 

Of course without knowing how many spelling errors there were originally, from seeing one slip through one cannot reasonably conclude anything about the state of QA, other than that they are not perfect.

Turning aside to DTG, I recently found two spelling mistakes:

• The little pop-up message suggesting to turn on DSD for additional points talks about "recieving" them. An easy mistake I often see made, certainly from my native Dutch as "ie" is how we spell that particular sound in Dutch.
• Facing the Hasselbrook station on Hauptstrecke Hamburg - Lübeck is a restaurant with a huge sign on the facade advertising it as a "RESTEAURANT", in all capitals no less.

I've filed tickets with them for both minor issues.

I've thought in the past to perhaps open a dedicated topic to collect all spelling errors people find, as filing individual tickets for each one is relatively a lot of work.

 

It’s call QA. Should be a development staple but seems to get overlooked A LOT.

 

It can be easily missed. Not like its done on purpose.

 

Mumbay again?

 

It's just lazy, it shows a general lack of care in their work.

 

Is it? I don't think so.

Lazy is the act of doing nothing. Spelling errors happen all the time, everywhere.

But are spelling errors really the biggest problem with TSW at the moment? I can think of more pressing issues to complain about.

 

I agree, there are, but it just gives an air of sloppiness, how can we be confident that they'll fix the pressing issues, when they can't even be bothered to get the spelling right?

 

Can we be confident either way?

It's either focus on spelling errors, or issues that impact gameplay.

 

What a bizarre viewpoint.

 

Is a glass half full or half empty?

No valuable time being spent on fixing mere spelling errors means they can spend that time on the more pressing issues. I know which I'd rather have them focus on.

 

Old Vern, l am continually asking for WCL to be improved as you are probably aware and nothing has been done to improve WCL. For a local, there is so much in WCL that is missed or incorrect.

Fife Circle looks better but I don’t know it as well. Since driving it and comparing it to a true life cab ride, l would score the route as 6/10. The highest mark Rivet have achieved in my book. I don’t like to be critical but their route building is sloppy, always looks unfinished with little attention to detail, unlike the excellent work they achieve with their locomotives and Stations, as well as the magnificent rendering of the Forth Bridge which are designed really professionally. Their route scenery in comparison is amateurish to me. If they can produce something as good as the Forth Bridge, why cannot they deliver outstanding TSW4 standard routes?

Rivet should stick to only working on Locomotives and maybe assist the really professional designers with Stations and leave route building alone. What really saddens me is with every Rivet route, we gamers criticise their route building, because of inaccurate and substandard work. Why can’t they see that their standard is not good enough and work extra hard to get their routes looking professionally presented! Until they can be relied upon to do that, l recommend, please don’t buy a Rivet route until either it’s 50% off or you’re given a game card and have nothing else to spend it on, like I do. They will soon realise if we all did that, you would like to think.

 

They still haven’t corrected “Training Center”

 

Well, when I was in school, I couldn't tell my professor that I was so concerned with the content of my paper that I didn't have time to spell-check it.
( and that was pre- computer )

 

A spell check takes a minute. But just have the texts reviewed by a linguist, so your developers can spend their time on the 'more pressing issues'. Devs shouldn't be writing these kinds of texts anyway.

 

Disagree. Simple spelling mistakes make the product look unprofessional. Attention to detail is important. Either do the whole thing properly or don't bother at all.

 

They're the sort of thing you don't notice until it's too late.

Not that important when there are other issues that need looking at.

 

I am probably being a bit picky here but does anyone in the forum design houses or buildings for TSC or TSW or any other computer game?

Rivet, god bless them, have tried to copy the real scenes around stations, by inserting buildings in the places they are in real life. I was wondering if it is possible to replicate a house in real life to look like one for TSW. I noticed in comparing the route that the buildings Rivet have inserted are wrong, they are so wrong they cannot possibly look right, as they say on the TV show Impossible!! If a building has a chalet window, is it impossible to design that into a building for TSW. If it is possible then Rivet can be called lazy, as they make most of the buildings look completely different to the real ones. I cannot really give a judgement as I have never tried designing, but I have seen on other routes the type of buildings, which Rivet haven’t inserted into this route. If it is possible and l was an experienced designer, I would want to make sure that the buildings look as they do in the real place and would work hard to get it right.

 

Yes, there are people. Just look into the PC Editor Forum for TSW and the Creation Centre for TSC.

It all depends upon your knowledge and experience in a 3D tool (Blender, Sketchup, etc.) and then your ability to create the correct textures for the building. It's not easy, but if someone is paid for that do in a company like Rivet Games (funny enough I just was on their website and they seem to even be looking for applicants for a 3D modeller), then you should be able to deliver at least a half decent replication of its real life counterpart.

No excuses there, since some community builders already created amazing stuff in the Forum (in case you don't know, I only can say: Check it out!).

I mean noone (first as well as official first or third party creator) can spend the time to recreate each and every building (that would be impossible I guess), but characteristic landmarks at least should be there.

The worst case of all is if you even can't provide a placeholder, that is a building which is not really looking like the real life counterpart but still a decent one to hold the place, at least for the primary phase in developement. Unfortunately, Rivet even vanished one house which was to see in the preview stream but disappeared in the final build.

Yes, they did very well creating some buildings close (especially the sites in Edinburgh), the one stadium and of course the Forth bridge, but so completely messed up other locations like the airport that I would ask whether the same developer did work for both locations.

 

If you’re referring to the spelling of word “centre”. Then no, they chose the international spelling of the word for a reason. British people aren’t the only people that play this game, and more non-Brits use United States English more.

 

Either this or someone who takes attention to detail.

 

Looking at heymarket depot, its pretty clear that the glass is entirely empty . (Why rivet are you this low on inspiration?)

The 170 what i saw is very well, but rivet lost me already with the lackluster timetable. Not sure whats left when valve & DTG took their share after i got fife circle on a 75% sale.

 

While that's true, it's also true that asset load is a consideration. Put simply, the more different 3D assets the engine has to render, the slower it goes. Now, if you rubber-stamp the same house 100 times it's hardly more load than just using it once; but adding a bespoke house doubles the resource burden. So devs in general limit the number of custom assets, concentrating for the most part on stations and landmark buildings. Most houses are just chosen from the existing library on a "close enough" basis.

 

Don't know if you ever looked into the pak files of a DLC which can be seen as an asset library on its own (I guess your answer implies that you did that to me), but for most DLCs I would guess it to be less than 10 different house types for domestic small houses, and around 5 house types for bigger block like buildings. If you consider that one wants to replicate as much varied house types as possible, the library really would need an update. And on some routes, you clearly can see how houses actually repeat.

Of course, performance is a problem. But also always repeating houses is. Really would DTG as well as first party would stock up this asset library to get a bit more variety into the content. I know that there are kind of unique houses released with many DLCs, however still a little less and DTG as well as third parties end up using the same buildings a lot.

 

Circling back to spelling, just noticed this as I was switching cabs inside a Class 323 of Birmingham Cross City: