Quite serious. Maik posted WIP pics of the 218 at least two years ago. TSG however works slowly, being about three people whose primary workflow is 2d-party contract work for DTG (almost every German DTG loco has TSG work in it.) Maik & Co do things like the 101 and Vectron and 111 as priority jobs, and go back to the G6, 218 and 232 when they have free time.
Perhaps, yet it still seems the commercial or players responses in return for their efforts didn't spur them on the produce DLC in greater quantiy or faster, knowing there is a distinct market for quality DB locomotives, rolling stock and even routes.
Seriously, DTG needs some pushrods on the market, the best would by Microsoft Train Simulator (and the last, I suppose).
You should be aware that Microsoft themselves never made a train simulator on their own. MSTS was a contract job, developed by a small studio named SIMIS - later renamed to Kuju Entertainment, who eventually made RailSimulator (a project that started as MSTS 2) which is now named Train Simulator Classic ("RailWorks" when DTG bought the game from Kuju). That's your MSTS 2. Microsoft lost interest in that "niche" market. Flight Sims are selling much better, and are a thing for MS since 1982.
The second attempt at MSTS2, after Kuju botched the first one and lost the contract, was undertaken by MS own in house Aces Studios. But the project was scrapped during the great MS games division cull in the mid to late 00’s and has never been revived despite the success of MSFS 2020, itself outsourced to Asobo to develop.
I've not come across a reliable source that Kuju "botched" the first attempt at MSTS 2. It might well have been the other way round, that Kuju were not happy with MS' style of interfering and leading the project. Both sides will tell it a little differently I guess. In the end, what Kuju made has evolved into an immortal sim due to a solid fundament of code and editors - and DTG updating and adding to the game. Would be interesting to contact Derek Siddle sometime, telling a bit more of the story, as he was were it happened, from Kuju to RSDL / RSC / DTG. Whatever the details of the story might be, MSTS and RS were done by Kuju, and RS/RW/TS is the spiritual successor with many similarities down to the cameras and keybinds and HUD origins. And MS Flight Simulator wasn't by MS but by SubLogic initially. MS were founded on buying Intellectual Property (ok, Bill Gates DID code a BASIC interpreter for the Altair), and their first two Windows versions were quite a useless joke (and led to the "Overlapping Windows" copyright case with Apple). Even Windows 3.x (and all non-NT versions up to ME) was not a real OS but a GUI running on DOS.
I was talking via AOL IM (ahhhh those were the days) with the Kuju Producer in charge of MSTS 2 (first cut) at the moment the project was cut. My understanding (and again there's no real 100% truth out there) is that the first one was cut because "why on earth are we developing three different world-simulation platforms" (MSTS, MSFS and CFS) combined with "why on earth are we spending so much money on PC gaming when we're supposed to be pushing Xbox investment". Then the second one was cut because its scope ran amok, the "world of rails" idea was always a questionable one imho, and I have to wonder if - given that the whole platform was supposed to support an Enterprise simulation platform, maybe they realised the time/investment vs return weren't going to hit their expectations - and decided to just drop the whole platform. It was called "ESP" (Enterprise Simulation Platform) if I recall, ESP 1 was flight (which powered FSX) - ESP 2 was trains (and powered MSTS 2 second cut) and ESP 3 was going to be cars. I was at a presentation at the Imperial War Museum in London where they demo'd ESP 2 / MSTS 2 and then gave a sneaky look at ESP 3 with the car side of things as well. ESP was always a huge long term goal - and while on the one hand that can set in deep roots for survivability, it can also mean if there's confidence problems in the business about whether it will develop, it can be cut-early. Matt.
Indeed Matt. And at the time, the consensus was, World Of Rails for the most part would have amounted to little more than how railways were depicted in FSX, a line drawn on the map except where routes were specifically developed. However I still remember the disappointment when it collapsed the second time though luckily Kuju did step in with RS to save the day. And look where we are now with several train sim platforms thriving!
Full credit on that to Paul Jackson who was at Electronic Arts at the time, arranging with Tim Gatland at "Fund4Games" to provide the funding who then worked with Kuju based on their MSTS experience to create Rail Simulator as a title for Electronic Arts release. Paul and Tim then went on to found "RailSimulator.com" and thusly "Dovetail Games". So really it was very much led by those two. Paul has since retired, and Tim is still busily heading up Rivet. The "three party" model for creating video games was quite innovative and made a title like a train simulator easier to produce overall than trying to meet internal EA goals for funding, which likely wouldn't have happened. Matt.
I still play it regularly because I like TSW so much. But I admit that none of DTG's recent releases have excited me enough to justify paying the full price. Because lately nothing really feels new or innovative, nor do I feel like there's any extra effort being made to generate excitement. Just look at the preview streams, poorly prepared and very lacking in information, in my opinion. Of the routes, many assets such as buildings are the same ones from 5 years ago that are reused over and over again, meaning that even though it's a new route it feels the same as previous routes in many parts of it. If this was somehow compensated with various aspects of new gameplay or originality, unique and challenging services, or for example the representation of branches so that the routes didn't become boring with just runs from A to B, maybe it would be worth it. But I don't see any of that, so I will possibly buy these routes at some point, but waiting long enough to get it at a big discount. I appreciate a bit more initiative and originality from the other developers. They seem to care a bit more about innovating or bringing something fresher like for example TSG with Niddertalbahn and the Expert BR 101, JT with the excellent BPO, Rivet with the announcements, Skyhook with cargo line, UW with Tadami line....
Having been playing SimRail regularly, one thing has stood out: the EP08 and EN57/71 are consistently among the most popular traction in the game. On the busier servers, it can be something of a race to grab a service featuring one of these as soon as it spawns. What are they? The EP08 is basically a DC-powered, resistance-bank version of the Class 83, while the EN71 is basically a slower, jankier version of the Class 455 (and the EN57 is a 3-car version). SimRail has got the physics right for both of them, so they take some effort to learn how to get the best out of them, but then they reward you with a fun drive in the same general way as the Class 86 and 87 do in RailWorks. Also in-game are the EU07 and EP07, which are technically very similar to the EP08 but have a reduced maximum speed. The ET22 is coming soon in the game's very first DLC, and is a freight-specialised implementation (six axles instead of four) of the same technology. The different electrical configuration of the motors will probably make it a more interesting (versus frustrating) drive than the EU07 in the freight role at the consequently lower speeds. But it is fitted with ETH supply, and can reach the same speeds as the EU07, so it occasionally deputises on passenger trains. There are also modern trains in SimRail - a 7-car Pendolino, a modern commuter EMU, and two modern AC-motor locomotives: the Polish-built "Dragon 2" and the German-built TRAXX E186. The E186 is probably the least interesting of the locomotives to drive, with very unintuitive controls that don't reward correct driving technique, only get in the way of it. Good luck making an accurate and gentle stop with the E186, the way you can with the EP08. If you thought the BR185.2 was bad… this is much worse. The Pendolino, however, is likely to get more interesting than it presently is with the introduction of ETCS to the game. Do we have ETCS in TSW, anywhere at all? And then there's the seamless integration of signalling - real signalling, not a bodged simulacrum - into SimRail. Whether it's an actual player in the 'box or an AI, you can expect one drive to be different from the next depending on whether other traffic is running late, so you might be shunted into a different platform or into a siding, to clear the way for overtaking traffic. (Or, of course, you could run into an idiot that causes trouble that others then have to sort out. That's how it goes.) Or you can jump into the 'box yourself and try to help keep things running smoothly. TSW doesn't have any of that - you will be sent along the same pre-ordained route every time, even when it doesn't make a lick of sense.
Yep. I only play for the US stuff and that’s been a problem within itself. Hell, TSW was the only thing that kept me playing my Xbox but haven’t turned that thing on in a couple weeks..
I’d really encourage you to try survival! I don’t care much at all about the survival aspects but the accompanying combat changes transform the combat experience from usual Bethesda bullet sponges to quick high stakes decisions with actual consequences. Though maybe think about a mod that enables saving apart from sleeping just to cover crashes.
On my side I must say that I am looking forward for the DB 218. And while Maintalbahn was somehow a disappointment, Rosenheim was not.
Matt - I'd genuinely be interested in why this would be more of a problem than, say, Brighton main line with all it's complexities around London and heavy commuter traffic. Tsc already has it so presumably a lot of research is done and as it's a UK route it's easy for your guys to do fieldwork. If you had to backdated it to another era due to licensing I don't think people would mind too much. Earlier iterations of the route are well documented and there's a lot of stuff on WCML modernisation in the NRM. I doubt you'd have a problem selling it!
It is only marginally more of a problem than Brighton tbh - it's a fair few more miles, similar station count, track complexity is similar, timetable probably similar to maybe lighter even. I wasn't saying London Peterborough was unachievable - I was simply clarifying that it is not "low hanging fruit" by any definition of the phrase. Brighton was probably one of the most challenging routes that we've made I'd say and I don't see Peterborough being *easier* even if it's not *that* much more difficult. I'm not saying we'll never do it, just saying it's not low hanging fruit Matt.
I mean now we have the 170, 2nd 158 on the way and the 66 already exists one wonders what Gloucester to Maesteg would look like...
I've pretty much only played TSW4 since it's released, I've clocked over 1,500 hours so far and now I've burnt myself out with it, mostly the bugs which frustrate me because DTG seem to be dragging their feet on with getting them fixed and even the recent releases haven't interested me apart from the Goblin line to be honest. However I will go back to it, I just needed to do something else. I tend to go trough phases of constantly playing 1 or 2 games all the time, getting burnt out and then not playing them for a while before picking them up again. So now since the Fallout TV show came out last month I've been playing FO3, FNV & FO4 a lot more and taking part in the 1.50 public betas for ATS & ETS2.
Did I dream it or wasn't there also a Microsoft Ship Simulator at some point? Was that related to the flight/train teams?
Are you perhaps thinking of the Ship Simulator that VStep made? Nothing to do with Microsoft - it just used the standard "X Simulator" font that tended to make it look like them Microsoft's ESP platform (which powered all their sims starting with FSX) was released for planes (of course), abandoned for trains (MSTS 2 the second-version) and didnt really get far off the ground for Cars (which I saw a demo of at a conference). Not heard of them having any plans towards ships but it wouldn't surprise me - they were kinda aiming to build a universal world-transport simulation platform.
Indeed that typeface (is it Impact or Haettenschweiler?) was often used to trick people into thinking this must be a solid game, whilst being used for a lot of cheap shovelware "simulations"
Indeed. Train Simulator 2013 was the last time we used it - there were a lot of extensive, long, and uh detailed meetings discussing all sorts of approaches for logos and such for TS2014. Frankly, love where they ended up
Problem with a ship simulator… try crossing the Atlantic in real time! Not going to be doing much else for a couple of months of spare time in the evening! I mean, I tried Sailaway and while it was quite relaxing, bobbing through the English Channel at 5 knots (if you were lucky) soon got boring and made a subsequent trip across Cane Creek in TSW a Formula One race by comparison. Actually one nautical game I did enjoy is a little canal boat sim that pops up on the tablets but also for PC. Quite good fun using the locks and lifting bridges. Probably no market for the concept as a mainstream sim, but then again I would actually pay to simulate travelling the length of the Grand Union Canal or Kennett and Avon, especially the huge staircase of locks at Devizes. There you are then Matt, one to throw in the hat at the next big concept meeting. CSW - Canal Sim World. If fishing is popular, no reason why a bit of barging wouldn’t be.
I would love a steam era version. Probably too complex to hope for but even King's Cross to Stevenage with N2 tanks on Quad art sets would be wonderful.
Even 1970, before the remodelling and when Top Shed was still in use. I have the old SIAM traffic simulation of that era and, while it's fairly simple compared to the Platinum titles like Carlisle or Lincoln, incredibly busy with a huge variety of trains and motive power. Not forgetting the DMU's and Class 31 hauled suburban stock heading off down the Widened Lines to Moorgate. Which would be an essential part of any route from that era.
No burnout here! On the subject of wishlists, there is a massive potential for classic diesel and electric routes given there's no branding issues as such, and a plethora of (diesel) audio sources on heritage lines. I still dream of a west country diesel hydraulic route such as Riviera in the late 60s.
I got the impression that had been rather messed up by the recent "upgrade" patch they put out and it was on hold indefinitely while they figure out what to do. really sad - esp. given i've not seen anyone actually say anything positive about this patch. Matt.
Tried the Fallout 4 upgrade as it was in my Steam library, but even with the update it still looks like ****, which alas does not inspire further perseverance. Diablo 4 (grâce au Game Pass PC), Avatar, and a 2nd run-through of Hogwart's Legacy are more deserving of my attention.
Ugh I'd not checked on it since the "not coming yet" announcement. Sadly it all seems like a bit of a mess now. Such a shame for them after all that work
Agreed. I also have not touched TSW in months and I´m doing TSC only now. What you said about everything ending up in TSC after a while is unfortunately not true for German routes. TSW has a couple of interesting ones, we don´t have in TSC. Aachen-Cologne, Wupperthal-Hagen, Bochum-Duisburg or Kassel-Würzburg. I hope DTG goes back to routebuilding at some point, exports the 3D models and makes these routes for TSC.... would really spice up the German route map.
