That would just be taking Rivet's work, changing some of it, and throwing it into MML for free (that's what updates would bring). If Rivet did what Skyhook are doing in reverse with the 158 (or even Skyhook themselves) and made a DLC out of it, possibly. Not as an update. Rivet wouldn't have it.
Yes, but it's better to have it here than what's there at the moment which isn't adequate enough. Approach release from red for the 70 to 25 mph turnout is most likely in reality. Actually, I'm wondering if the signalling upgrade doesn't release until cargo 2 releases due to the new timetable.....
Really enjoying the new update but one thing that has not worked is the PIS. It’s now totally broken despite it being listed as fixed in the patch notes.
Also the announced 158 gauge fix is not there - they will still freeze when there's snow cover. LucaZone What happened?
After a couple of runs this is now pretty much the best TSW route - patch has enhanced the route further and looks great. Still trying to find Etches Park cabin. 158 does feel better to drive and more prototypical - looks more realistic too.
Actually, having fully read the notes, it seems that those junctions with issues I mentioned earlier aren't there in the patch notes. I incorrectly assumed all junctions have been overhauled, it seems not, which is a shame. Takes the shine off it a bit for me unfortunately, the main thing for me is accurate signalling. It's almost there but not quite. Maybe they couldn't go the extra lengths due to it mucking up the timetable. But apart from that, it's still a great looking route, we'll done to all concerned.
Route feels great! Noticed a couple of issues this morning though: 1. In Nottingham station there are point blades still missing at the Derby-end of the platforms (sorry can't remember which platform, will update later). 2. In the 158 the maximum speed in the HUD still shows the maximum line speed rather than the 90 mph max for this unit. Keep up the continuing great work guys.
Patch I work on only has one flashing turn out, for a huge number of diverging routes, so honestly, it's not that unusually in an older signalling system.
It's great to have a driver on here for their knowledge. So for a 70 to 25 turnout or similar how would that work on your patch? I'm just going on cab rides I've seen plus this video by Don Coffey explaining approach control (plus other things like the AP signalling manual). I just think that the double yellow to yellow with feather, which seems to used a lot in TSW routes, is actually quite rare and is only used in slight speed reductions such as at a 40 -25 mph turnout in London somewhere (south of London Bridge I think?)
Had a blast on this last night, and the patch has made this one of the best routes in the game now. Just goes to show what CAN be done with time, and with dedication to the route! Nice one Adam and co!
They are managing to improve the route, and continue to monetise it through the freight add-ons. This should absolutely be the model going forward. Instead of release and abandon, Skyhook have shown that you can continue to work on a route and make it truly great while adding extra content. Skyhook have shown how long term investment in their product makes for a sustainable product.
They already stated that his was a known issue but couldn't be fixed. It is only a cosmetic issue and doesn't affect the train going over the points as they still function correctly.
I can't answer for sure, as I'm not a driver, but a Signalling Engineer. All I can say, is that the one flashing signal we have is for a route that drops from 80-45 for a crossover, all other routes, some that have an even lower turn out are solid aspects. I believe we gained another during the resignalling works, but as it's led, it doesn't change our works much. Different regions use different signalling principle standards.
Skyhook has been improving the MML since its release, we got less bug, better scenery, more service and many other improvement, all these have change MML a lot and soon we would get Cargo Line Vol2, which add even more service. So if the developer pay enough attention to the improvement of its product, even the "bad" product can become better and better, and I hope other developer can learn from it and take action to improve their products.
I don't see any trunking out of Nottingham towards Beeston etc, even up to East Midlands Parkway and beyond, there isn't any? Also, are we supposed to see the same numbered locos on the route? (43081 for example has appeared on the opposite platform of my service and I'm in 43081 too).
Both of the junctions you’ve mentioned, being 70mph to 25mph, would be required to be approach release from red under UK signalling regulations (i.e. the last signal before the junction remains red until the train is detected to have reduced its speed sufficiently on approach). If they were approach release from yellow (as depicted) the train speed would be excessive, in relation to the 25mph junction speed, on approach to the signal. Basically, you’re relying on the HUD (which, of course, the real life Driver does not have) to be able to control the train in the proper manner. The other TSW route that does a lot of that is the Brighton line. It does take a lot away from the experience for me. For reference, the latest UK regulations I have are as follows: Method 1 - Unrestricted Aspect Sequence (greens all the way, up to and including the junction indicator) - can only be used if the speed for the diverging route is no more than 10mph lower than the speed for the main route. Method 2 - Flashing aspects - If the permissible speed approaching the junction is 80-125mph, the speed on the diverging route must be 40mph or greater to enable use of flashing aspects. If the permissible speed approaching the junction is 40-75mph, the speed on the diverging route must be 25mph or greater to enable use of flashing aspects. Method 3 - Approach Control from Red (the junction signal stays red until the train is approaching it at slow speed) - used when the speed of the diverging route in comparison to the main route means the above methods are not permitted. Method 4 - Approach Control from Single Yellow - used 'by exception' and has a number of requirements including that the highest permissible speed for any route at the junction is 60mph or less, and the difference in speed between the diverging route and the main route is greater than 10mph and not more than 30mph. In all cases the process for deciding the method to be used is more complex than described here, and includes a number of factors, but these are the speed-related stipulations.
With the realistic timetable once again, which was one of my few complaints, I think we can safely say this is up there with now being one of the best UK routes! We’ve been spoilt lately!
This route is looking really good now. I like the fact that the playability is being added to with the Cargo Packs. It had a pretty poor start but, it’s good that it continues to be supported. Annoyingly it’s a public holiday tomorrow but because I’m on Steam, I won’t be able to play the new Cargo pack until it releases in the evening. I’m sure it’ll be worth the wait. Please do fix the glass frosting on the instruments on the 158 when it snows. I’m sure it’s not really that cold in the cab.
Excellent post, required reading for all UK route devs. Needs to be nailed down because, I agree with you, it decreases immersion massively if the wrong app control us used. The signal types are all there in game, just needs care to be placed correctly, first time, because as we see now it's very hard to change once a timetable has been created.
Although, if the standards changes after the area was resignalled, the standards might not be retrofitted. Certainly applys to my area and alot of the signal sightings, especially of curves where the new distances aren't obtainable and the signals require coactors or banners, but won't recieve any.
Indeed - you can have ‘grandfather rights’ to do certain things. However, I’m sure there’s nowhere which has approach release from single yellow for a speed reduction from 70mph to 25mph. There’d be too many Drivers having heart attacks!
Out of interest, with the latest update along with the 2 cargo packs released. How busy is this route now and what can you compare it to in terms of other DLC's?
It is one of the busiest routes now, I think Cargo Line 2 is a really good pack and addition, not sure on the graffiti on the wagons as is not that random and one consist had very wagon with graffiti and repeating the same art. But the wagons are Skyhooks usual high standard.
