This is the opposite of the "Enough is Enough: Rivet Edition" thread. This is an appreciation and evaluation of what turned Skyhook from Rivet's twin in the game... To something much more special. And how they turned it around after the MML Launch, turned 'Gameplay Packs' into something worth your time (nevermind money), and how they went from disaster to a good performing third party. Of course, there are other good third-parties. Just Trains blew Blackpool out of the water, to the point where there have only had to be a few minor patches post-release. TSG have released quality stuff, while SimTrak started off small. Rivet, for their flaws, have produced a couple of good DLCs. But this is about Skyhook, and their comeback from the disaster of the 187, to the present. Get comfy, grab a coffee from the Buffet Car, because this one is bound to be a long journey. The Beginning Skyhook, according to their own website, have been working closely with Dovetail Games since 2014 - so, a decade. Their first DLC came in the same year - a safe play, with the fictional Count of Monster Disco route for Halloween. A charming route for the theme, with a pumpkin steam locomotive, it settled Skyhook into Train Simulator Classic nice and easy. They followed this up in April 2015 with the BR Class 07 shunter for West Somerset Railway, followed by a BR Blue livery and a few marketplace add-ons. It wasn't until March 2016, however, they returned with a proper DLC - The BR Class 58 - for Great Western Mainline. Tackling Mainline operations, the 58 was, like Monster Disco, positively received, and marked a good first two years for Skyhook. The Summer of 2016 served as their breakthrough, though. The 2nd of June saw the ÖBB 1044, released, July 13th had the GWR Star Locomotive, And another 13 days after that saw the Corris Railway add-on released. All of these have positive ratings - with the GWR Star having 8 'Recommended' out of 8 reviews. Corris Railway, however, is arguably Skyhook's best work in TSC. Featuring the small, narrow-gauge, Welsh heritage line, Corris Railway is a peaceful yet beautiful route. The Route's Locomotive, No.7, entering the route in the First Scenario. The attention to detail around the trackside is second to only a handful; and the scenarios on the route add a unique flavour to it. It is a masterclass in how to do a route that is unique and doesn't serve well to the rest of the game - the stuff you'd be used to building. It forces a new approach and, really, offers an opportunity for something new. Over a year later, Skyhook would end up coming back to Wales; with a loco + wagon add-on giving even more life to this lovely route. Afterwards, in 2018/19, Skyhook released a series of positively-recieved ÖBB locomotives, those being the ÖBB 1014, ÖBB 1144 & Cityshuttle Wiesel, ÖBB 1142, ÖBB 4744 'Cityjet', and ÖBB 5047. All of these were part of the advanced 'TS Pro' range, giving more interactivity and features for the player to use - closer to what Train Sim World Offers. Their first 'mixed' reviews came with the Livonia Subdivision route, which served as Skyhook's first effort at an American DLC. Enter TSW From the onset of Train Sim World, Skyhook were involved. As you can find on their Website, https://skyhookgames.com/3d-vehicle-art/, they were involved in the creation of some of the earlier Dovetail locomotives, such as the Class 08, Amtrak SW1000R, as well as, seemingly, models for Flight Sim World. An EWS Class 08. Used in the end with the BR Heavy Freight Pack. It wasn't until 2021 that Skyhook would appear with their own DLC - the Cane Creek branchline. Firmly in Union Pacific territory, this quiet branchline takes the player through an utterly stunning part of the American West. A Union Pacific Locomotive on the Cane Creek branch. However, from launch and even to today, the route suffers from a number of issues, both in terms of the Scenery, and in terms of the Locomotives. The route, like their TSC effort at American freight, ended up with mixed reviews. Disaster Strikes Skyhook decided to take a trip to Germany with their next add-on, the DB. BR 187. Designed for use with Köln - Aachen, the 187 offered the first freight experience for the route - rather than the simple ICE 3 or Talent 2 - with 'New Journeys' a months away. This was not the experience people wanted. A preview stream that went down as a total binfire, and a DLC not only negatively on steam, but Very Negative - with only 19% of reviews. recommending the DLC. The sounds were, effectively, that of the BR 185. Since then, Skyhook haven't returned to Germany. The 187 has received some patches but still, isn't the best. Next Steps Skyhook, at this time, were also creating something of their own: Lawn Mowing Simulator. Whilst not remotely relevant to this thread, LMS shows what Skyhook can do; with it's small maps being very detailed and having enough to catch the eye. Their next route for TSW, would repeat this. In comes, Horseshoe Curve. Heading out east in the US, this takes the player into Norfolk Southern territory for the first and so far only time in TSW. The Curve, which features in Train Sim Classic as well, is quite a well-made route, with some issues here and there. It's reviews reflect this, being positive - their first TSW add-on to see this. A small return to Train Sim Classic with the ÖBB 4746 'Cityjet' loco add-on proved to be, as of writing, their last, as they go all-in on TSW / LMS. With TSW3 came a re-release (technically) of the DLCs, thus resetting their reviews on steam. Horseshoe Curve has 6/8 positive, Cane Creek has 1 review, which is negative, But, most surprisingly, is the 187. Steam rates it as 'Mixed', with 40% of 20 reviews (so, 8) being positive. Whilst that is still fairly poor, it's much better than the TSW2 version. Perhaps it got better with age?.. Oh dear. Skyhook's next adventure was revealled to be in their home country, England; the Midland Mainline from Leicester to Derby and Nottingham. The Class 158 'Express Sprinter' as featured in the route. Featuring a modified variant of the Class 43 HST (featured on Great Western Express), and the brand-new BR Class 158, Midland Mainline promised the first true, modern, diesel mainline experience since Great Western Express. It fell fairly flat on it's face. Releasing with quite a lot of issues in most areas, Skyhook's first venture into the passenger world, and British railways, didn't go to plan at first. But that wasn't the end of the story. The Comeback Skyhook took a lesson from previous failures, of the 187, Cane Creek, and from other developers. They stuck with it and worked on it. From then until the present, Skyhook have overhauled the route. Improving scenery by adding custom. bridges, stadiums; as well as more lights in depots and stations, more foliage along the line... Improving the timetable, at last factoring in the simulated guard door, and with more service options... Improving the trains and fixing bugs. Midland Mainline may not be the perfect route but Skyhook have turned it around. The thread below contains a lot of images from Skyhook's changes from their earlier updates; custom bridges being prevalent on page one: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/midland-mainline-update-progress.69947/ Today Skyhook today are on quite a strong position. Having spent almost six months with no new DLCs - just Midland Mainline updates - they definitely deserve the better reputation they have than they did before the route, even if it did start as a mess. I doubt sees Skyhook making a train/route that they like and thinking, "oh god not Skyhook!". At least, not anymore. Following the first few patches for MML, they moved onto Cargo Line. A series of up to 4 (currently 2) 'Gameplay Packs', Cargo Line Volume 1: Petroleum, released in December 2023. It brought some new services and scenarios to Midland Mainline and Great Western Express, offering freight to MML for the first time, and slightly expanding upon the GWE freight experience. It holds positive reviews, joining Horseshoe Curve in that club. Volume 2: Aggregates, does this but better. Offering content for Midland Mainline, Great Western Express and Southeastern Highspeed, Vol 2. takes it up a notch, expanding the UK freight experience on three of it's 'mainline' routes - only really Brighton Mainline and ECML are missing from that, and they have a fair bit of freight as things stand. A Class 66, hauling VTG-branded wagons, as seen in Volume 2. Volume 2 released at the start of this month, so I doubt Volume 3 will be too soon. Building on Success? Next up for Skyhook, is the ScotRail Class 158. Modifying their Midland Mainline unit to ScotRail's variants, the 158 will come with a new timetable for Fife Circle (it can't substitute for the 170), as well as Edinburgh - Glasgow - with layers on the 380 Timetable for Cathcart Circle. We haven't seen the 158 beyond an early teaser (effectively just the 158 in livery editor) - but Skyhook have set themselves up nicely for it. The 158 in-game is good and a fun drive, so it's easy to assume it will be much the same. Hopefully, they deliver at the standard they seem to demand they set themselves now. Only time will tell... Conclusion I wanted to make a little appreciation thread for Skyhook as I do feel like they deserve it. Their efforts at recovering and improving Midland Mainline are something we really need to see more of in TSW, rather than the constant "fire and forget" practised by some developers. This is also just a little effort to focus on a good side. Compared to the "Enough is Enough (Rivet)" thread, this thread is the opposite. This focuses on a developer who have overcome those hurdles, mostly, and are positioned nicely to move forward positively. Let's hope they do!
Thank you for this post. I haven’t yet played MML but I have followed it on here and been very impressed by all the updates and attention to detail Skyhook have made. It is also reassuring that they have listened to community feedback and acted on it. I think threads like this are important. There can be too much negativity in the game and I think it is important to offer praise when developers do well. Hopefully Skyhook will be encouraged by all the positive feedback they are getting and aim to keep future releases to such a high standard or even revisit some of their past routes. I don’t have any of their previous routes/ locos but if they fix some of the issues with them I shall probably purchase them. This is in complete contrast to Rivet who don’t seem interested in fixing any of their routes/ locos after release other than by the bare minimum they can get away with. So in future I will probably avoid Rivet but try to support Skyhook as on present form they are an asset to our game.
Yes! Skyhook has amazed me. My first introduction with MML wasn't that great so I never thought the route would become what it is now. Those Cargo Line packs also have put Skyhook on my radar.
Interesting article! Though the cityjet was made by RWA, and Skyhook published it. But it might still come at some point to TSW. We have routes where the cityjet is a perfect loco DLC for it.
MML shouldn't have released in the state it was, and they spent a lot of time blowing smoke up people's backsides about it. Skyhook are forever tainted IMO.
I don't agree. They made errors and resolved them and we had multiple updated to the MML while Rivet don't even acknowledge theirs bugs.
MML may have been sorted but it took a massive wave of consumer protest to force the changes. Cane Creek and HSC still have issues and aren’t the flawed DB 187 and 204 products of Skyhook?
Skyhook has made great gains in delivering a quality product, I want to give some of the credit to Adam. He seems to have motivated his team there as well as bringing in knowledge of TSW from his time at DTG.
Midland Mainline is one of my favourite routes now. The cargo line packs have been day one purchases, and have actually brought me in to freight more. I dabbled with freight a little, but mostly only used the passenger services in the past. Both packs have been so well done, and I enjoy a different challenge. Hopefully Skyhook have shown it can be financially sustainable to stick with your routes and enhance them rather than the fire and forget approach that some routes suffer from. I can't wait to see what else we'll get from them.
I’ve had my eye on Volume 2 for a while now, it’d be nice to have some extra traffic on MML, if it wasn’t for the 380 I would’ve gotten it by now
Well, as a PR exercise it works for SHG, I guess. Unfortunately, there are lots of caveats. I'll focus on Cane Creek right now, a piece of abandonware with some significant issues which I guess will never be addressed. I havent played CCB in a while but the ghost highway noises, the strange nuclear waste wagons, the floating scenery and the backwards trucks on the AC4400 are all still present I assume. And why choose the most tedious route imaginable. Horse Shoe has its own issues too, which I won't touch on here. SHG have done some better work recently but their reputation isn't spotless by any means. Rather like DTG, they tend to ' fire and forget ".
I kinda like HSC. There are some odd issues like the 2-d patch of trees in the middle of the route and some odd buildings, but overall I can't say it's "bad." I'd give it an "ok." Now CCB.... it's just lackluster overall but I'm not blaming the mechanics so much as the design itself. It's just BORING... and the scenery just isn't there. I haven't been there irl so can't say if that's how it ACTUALLY looks color-wise and such, but it's just tedious to run with nothing to see and nothing to do. Now I don't expect a lot of traffic on a branch line, and it is the desert...but maybe it wasn't the best choice for entertaining gameplay? I can see that being a negative feedback loop where it sold crappy, so they didn't want to "throw good money after bad" on a route that was already a bad choice. Now putting more effort into MML makes sense because it's used a LOT more, it sells pretty good and there was cross-pollination with the other popular British lines (SEHS, GWE, etc) Compared to an unpopular US freight line that's limited to essentially 4 "runs" to just 2 destinations.... I'm not sure I can blame SHG for cutting their losses on a bad idea and focuses on the better choices. Seems like good leadership to focus on what works.
In defense of Cane Creek: it's slow freight. If you don't like that sort of thing then it's the sort of thing that you won't like. However, the scenery is absolute Grade A- probably the best in all of TSW except possibly Bernina. Personally I like the Sunday drive (which is more interesting than, say, Cajon Pass because the grade is perpetually changing and you aren't just grinding along in Notch 8 for an hour). Yes, there is the reversed truck, and, yes, they should have proper uranium-waste hoppers, but I still like the route. It isn't a go-to, but it is a change of pace I enjoy from time to time. Horseshoe Curve has issues- notably, the Super Special Dynamic Brakes on the ES44, and the fact that all the cars behave unloaded, making what should be a challenging rote far too easy. On the positive side, SHG's heritage pack liveries are very well done, much better than DTG's pack for the UP.
Fair play to Skyhook making the MML a great route now just a shame it wasn't extended to Sheffield but overall they listened to the community and corrected mistakes they made so credit to them
I believe they did CityJet Desiro ML 4744 and 4746, hopefully they do it also for TSW and even better... Austrian routes NEED that train as it is THE backbone of Austrian regional/commuter traffic along with 4024/4124 when it comes to EMUs
At this current moment of time, no. Why do you feel the need to comment in a rather rude manner? Same reason?
MML today is great, and it’s good to see them expanding on it with the cargo packs. Thats about as far a praise can go though, they have other DLCs that are not in a great state & left abandoned. MML was atrocious at launch, Jane was a disaster to say the least & it took a very long time to get MML into a good place. Everything considered, I don’t think a relatively low scope route, being in a good state from the back of a years worth of fixing, has built up much confidence for Skyhook releasing good quality DLC’s in the future.
No route has had so much improvement as mml. It truly is a spectacle of tsw, and a route that shows what can be done with this game if some consistency and cleverness can do. A dlc worth full price.
Sadly, I feel like Skyhook realized they aren't that specialized in US freight and decided to not continue work on fixing Cane Creek or Horseshoe Curve. Not to mention when the Heritage Liveries came out, they didn't even bother to update HSC to TOD4. Seems like they hit their stride with UK stuff, and that's probably where they'll stay for TSW's future.
HSC and CC are still the 2 worst routes I own. So many bugs and broken features to count. Never once to this day have they fixed anything, and never will. Them actually fixing their most recent route just rubs salt in the wound to us U.S. players. And some of these issues are actually game breaking. The fact that the dynamic brake on the ES4400 only has two working settings out of 8, either dynamic break below 2 for minimum and anything above 2 is automatically maximum 8. So there's really no way to go downgrade even remotely close to how it's suppose to be. And this is only 1 out of MANY things that are beyond ridiculous.
oh yea one thing i am mad about skyhook with their MML for TSW is that i cant use the MML HST powercars and their MK3s in formation designed :/ i am not happy with it and whenever can skyhook make them compatible (please someone tell them-). also still odd how the liveries i downloaded from creators club for the MML hst just refuses to load. Like it doesnt show up in the spawn list at all.
The BR187 is the worst DLC ever in my own opinion, I was extremely disappointed and till this day, after two patches in vain, it’s still unplayable. Even as AI I decided to not keep it (there’s some nice sounds mod but sadly I’m on console). Then, Skyhook released MML which was an absolute joke and poorly made, it was in an unfinished state that I was 100% disappointed from Skyhook and for good. After the huge backlash, they worked hard to redeem themselves and they gave us a nice update which transformed MML from a bad route, to a really good one, in fact it’s one of my favorite ones. They recently released some nice DLCs and that really changed my mind and my perception about them. I’m enjoying their products and they did a good job at rectifying themselves. Kudos to everyone and a big thanks to Adam.
Well done on the write up it must have taken some time. Skyhook, IMO, has earned some credit, for the main reasons you pointed out. MML was ok on launch, but had issues like most TSW routes. But the after launch support for it has set an example for the other devs (even DTG to be honest). Not only did we get the most important bug fixes, but they've been releasing a steady stream of updates and new content that goes beyond the scope of just fixing bugs. They've actually done improvements to the route for free (yes I know they did 2 paid cargo packs for it but the route updates were included for everyone). You can tell they actually care about this route and I have confidence buying their stuff in the future. Can't say that for every TSW studio. I know the 187 was a bit of a debacle and Cane Creek left a lot to be desired (probably the best scenery of the TSW2 era but had issues with rolling stock)... but I've been a fan of Skyhook since the Horseshoe Curve route for sure. Not that it was perfect, it has had its issues but overall I enjoyed it and they did a great job on attention to detail on the route itself, coming from someone that has been to the area in real life, they did a pretty good job recreating Altoona and Johnstown right down to individual buildings and billboards that are spot on. Cresson and South Fork are also pretty good. Gallitzin is a bit of a glaring exception since it is missing some pretty iconic items but overall I thought it was a good route. Especially considering it was made by people on the other side of the ocean (my theory is that they used a lot of Google satellite and streetview to get the cities accurate, which would also explain Gallitzin since it had basically 0 worthwhile streetview at the time). Skyhook has also been around since day 1 on TSW too I think doing piecemeal work for DTG routes. For example, some of the rolling stock for SPG... and someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn't they make the HST from GWE?
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on CCB I think. Maybe it's just personal differences on what makes "good" scenery. I DO like a nice, slow branch haul (Nidder, Maintalbahn, WSR, even MSB and Koblenz along the riverside) I just don't see much to SEE close up on the CCB. *shrugs* If you love it that's awesome. HSC for it's faults has at least one branch (I'd say the loop counts as two and the sidings of Johnstown are pretty neat if you check them out) There's more scenery along the tracks and there's traffic (train, vehicles, etc) I did the whole CCB a couple times and just didn't see ANY AI vehicles on the roads (there wouldn't be any rail traffic on a single line branch) Could've been a fluke I guess. Just not my cup of tea. SPG I agree is nice and the add-ons are well done. The route REALLY captures the feel for that region and while there is reuse of assets, there's quite a bit of unique things as well. It's how you do a hilly coal area well. The flatness of MML by comparison kinda bores me. Skyhook did a good job on the graphics and details of MML, it's just not that interesting to drive. I keep comparing it to SEHS and there's just so much more THERE.
Look at what MML would have looked like on day one if they held off for a year. Thanks for the cost of having to be a beta tester for 1 year. Basically a go fund me type deal. But that should all be forgotten because 1 year later it looks like it should have to start with and I should be super happy now. Skyhook is on the top of the list for DLC from here on out. I'm still awaiting the mess the next route they do will be. Maybe they should stick with gamplay packs as its seems to be what they do best.
I have 4744 and rode it just a couple times... I liked the feature of holding speed it had - kinda like cruise control, but without its dedicated switch... once you got to a speed you wanted, you just put the throttle into sth like min/zero and it locked the speed in... very convenient also the train has great acceleration and sound if they mean business with Austrian content Desiro ML and its variants in CityJet livery MUST be done at one point or another
What if it only GETS better because of player feedback over that year? That makes you an integral part of success which you could be proud of.
I'm not advocating - whatsoever - that Skyhook are the gods of TSW and that we should all give them a free pass here-in, and I don't think many comments have. The Article in the OP talks about Cane Creek and, in particular, the 187 being a disaster which, to my knowledge, hasn't really been touched since release. It does not, anywhere, say to ignore that because of the recovery of MML. Likewise, it doesn't say to ignore the really poor launch of MML. The 'positive' part isn't even saying much about MML - it's the fact that they have spent that much time working on recovering it that is the positive. It would have been easier and - given that it took those months to do - probably financially reasonable to leave it. But they didn't. They got to work almost instantly - with the money from the original launch in the bank - to make it better. That's what this thread is really about - and that's what the point is. For me, that's a universally good thing.
I think most third parties need to improve the quality of their initial releases and I’d include Skyhook in that. However, their subsequent engagement and continued improvements since MML is very much a lesson the most other 3rd parties. They could have easily just left MML as it was, as certain other providers have with theirs, but its now one of the strongest routes out there both in terms of rolling stock & route quality. I do hope others take note.
if only we can get the route to extend to shenfield or something. So we can drive the HST much longer
Did Skyhook behave different to Rivet before actually providing the update to MML? Did they say they would improve the scenery within a future update after the bad reception of costumers? Were there even any apologies for not providing a product of the quality they wanted it to be?
