Fix Tsw 4 Or Keep Making New Content?

Thats where we differ I don't hold DTG to anything they say. I've been playing since TSW 2020 came out and the one thing I learned quick was they blow alot of smoke with promises.

So what I purchase to me is final product. Then I'm happily surprised if anything does come. I don't like to hang on to hope something will be fixed.

Too many promises they have made have been unfulfilled in the past so I just don't listen to the speculation or believe what they say until it is in our hands.

 

I think that's the way to go. I think the biggest problem DTG have is that they are bad at managing expectations. They seem to be getting better at not announcing things until they are sure they can deliver them.

My approach to my own expectation management is now:

1. I buy things based on what is available here and now, not promised future features/fixes.

2. I expect old DLC to have issues with the modern game, and adopt a position of being grateful that it is still compatible with the base game and that I don't have to keep all previous versions installed.

That allows me to maintain some perspective and be surprised when things improve rather than be disappointed that they don't.

 

It is the DTG way I am afraid, promise promise promise and when it doesn't get fixed in this version, DTG will promise it will get fixed in the next version of TSW to get people to purchase again.

 

Why are you so defensive about your poll? I tried to make my poll example as generic as possible so no one who ever made a poll would feel offended. Like I said in that reply a good poll is an all you can eat for good discussion. Maybe I was talking about your poll maybe I wasn't.

 

Agree that they should focus on bugs, wanted Trunk Service Scenario and others fixed

 

I am not defensive about my poll, I just want people to focus on what the poll is about not the poll itself. The poll is nothing more than a vehicle to provid feedback and information via votes or comments for DTG to read.

 

So if we made another poll about your poll you would start reading the feedback about your poll provided via votes and comments?

 

I think at this point we maybe should draw a line between people's differences in availability, appreciation, purpose in exchange of money.

If I were a millionaire (as first poster in another thread once said to be), I pretty much would pay all DLCs, plus including all TSC and all its DLCs at one evening.

How much is that? 10.000 quid? But since I have enough it doesn't matter. I don't even care about updates.

This is completely different to the costumer struggling to buy even just 4 or 5 DLCs just because of the price tag.

These people, just because they ain't got masses of it available and maybe really need to cut any luxury goods off to even keep their life and business on going) do have a different appreciation to and value of money and what you get for it.

But independant of the actual value of the money for each individual, I think both of these parties should agree to the premise that if I sell a commercial product, I should know how to keep it maintained properly so that no errors occur which prevent, hind or limit the use of the product.

Otherwise I'm doing something wrong with my business.

 

Fix and Simplify the Editor.
Then DTG will have brought a completely new game to market...........and we, as users, will get all sorts of new content from the community.
"Winner, winner, chicken dinner"

 

I can empathise with those people but those people must realise that people that don't struggle to buy a route pay for the bug fixing. DTG does a lot of sales so I notice they also care about the small budgets. Even people with small budgets can keep "up to date" with the game.

But consumers also need to do some research before buying into stuff. When I bought TSW2 I knew I was going to buy into an addictive bug ridden collecting game. In my opinion TSW has improved from a bug ridden collecting wannabe console game into a console game that lacks polish.

 

We need a poll about a poll

 

There are several issues at work with "preserving" old DLCs. There can be a synergy if done correctly whereas other "departments" could be involved. For example redoing RSN to TOD4 standards AND adding more layers, more rolling stock and doing some marketing. It's not JUST about one team, and it doesn't just mean ONE upgrade on it's own.

However, I agree that in the end the business model question remains the same.... will it bring revenue? The more you put into something in hours/money...the more revenue you need to make off of it. A simple "fix" that sells 100 more copies is worth whatever 100 copies earns in effort. A massive overhaul that sells 1,000 more copies is worth 10 times the effort to accomplish.

And yes...we don't have the numbers data to really make that call.

Only DTG does.

Having said that, using that axiom.... not all "bugs/glitches/fixes" are the SAME. The obvious ones and easy ones tend to get the first "fixes." The obvious ones because they are the worst for reputaiton/revenue... and the easy ones because they involve the least cost/risk to fix.

I've seen a lot of "this sign is wrong" or "this color is a bit off" that... frankly 99% of people won't notice or demand to be fixed. Then again, how much time does it take to fix that sign? If fixing that sign potentially sells 10 more copies in theory, then maybe it's worth $300 to fix it which is how many hours of work by a developer?

A good example is the MML updates. I don't know how much that cost to do, and I don't know how much increase there was in sales from good reputation. However, it DID cost something and there WAS a boost in sales.

 

If I was a millionaire, I would commission DTG to spend more time on routes to make sure they are as best as TSW can allow them without the cut corners the limited dev time currently does.

 

I like the game so much I bought the company type of thing. Focus must have taken a shine to them that's for sure.

 

Where is the do both option?

 

The "do both option" is the default option that DTG would have us believe they are doing right now I guess. But bug and glitches are still there.

 

As the current situation seems to be, we would also need a "Neither of those" option.

 

I'm afraid that option has already been taken by Rishi Sunak and Kier Starmer. (Other names may be added as required)

 

I'd probably be able to open my own dev studio and hire people to make routes myself if I was a millionaire.

 

Well I’ve stopped buying dlc until I see what happens this summer. I’m also spending a lot of time on TS24 these days as it is so much more complete. Photographic visuals for me are less important than quality and depth, especially when some of those visuals in some routes are actually inferior to TS24 with Railworks Enhanced 2 installed. For example I already have Fife and Semmeringbahn on TS24 so why buy it twice? In addition those TS24 routes come with more rolling stock included, all TS24 routes do.
With TSW DTG have been gradually weening us off routes with multiple rolling stock by slimming in down to just a solitary unit, which I think for the prices they charge us pretty shoddy. They have groomed us to accept that with no real explanation. So the prices went up whilst the content deteriated.
For me nowadays, to avoid having to get a 2nd mortgage, I’m only buying vintage content.
I’m getting more and more tired of modern routes with just a solitary EMU. All one handled and pretty much all the same to drive. So I’m voting with my wallet.

 

TSW routes have always come with just one new train. The only exceptions have been the first routes of their kind, so the first US freight route, the first modern UK passenger route, the first steam route etc. plus maybe the odd other route now and then, but the default has always been one new train and potentially one reworked train. All other trains in the busy routes have been loco DLC or layers from other routes. It isn’t a gradual reduction at all. The price went up once due to inflation and wasn’t unique to TSW as you may have noticed everything else went up in price at the same time, a lot of things by much more than TSW DLC did. The content hasn’t deteriorated but improved as content is better quality now than it was a few years ago. There has not been any grooming.

 

It depends on how you look at it, i manage to play and enjoy the game, often the bugs are minor ones and ot exactly game breaking so it's okay to me.
Most of it can be fixed by the modding community.

On the other hand you also have the people who scream the game is broken because one digit of a train identity number is wrong or there are a couple assets that clip into each other, these people reaaalllly need to touch grass, no, astroturf will do.

Yeah you get the occasional big bug but that comes with games, people want big timetables which means it cant all be tested thoroughly in a realistic time frame. If they release a good, but small timetable people will complain there isn't enough.
The big bugs normally are sorted, DTG release patches all the time, fixing bugs is also a pain because on top of fixing the bug you need to make sure it hasn't created a much bigger bug or ruined other content which also takes testing, but to say they aren't doing it id stupid.
If take one look at steam you'll see all the update notes saying the stuff they've fixed.

TLDR: Game go choo choo it fun

 

you say that, but often the sounds and intractability are awful in train sim classic and to get it looking sounding and working good you need to buy a 3rd party ad on like AP, which often requires something else, and their scenarios require something else which requires something else and you end up with hundreds of pounds for one route?

You also have the lack of timetabled services and imo it's just much more of an incomplete game, not saying i don't play it but it certiainly isn't my first pick out of the two.

 

That's a rather flattering view of the state of TSW. As recently as Rush Hour, routes came with multiple trains. That was perhaps the turning point. Since then we have been " persuaded " that one train per route is the norm.

As for the content being better now than a few years ago, I suppose that's a matter of opinion. I would invite you and other DTG disciples to compare Glossop with NTP or BML. And put recent offerings up against Sand Patch, GWE or any of the Rush Hour routes.

I play and enjoy the game in spite of my disappointment with where it's headed, but with the elimination of steam and freight and the almost total focus on joystick electric commuter trains and routes, in my opinion anyone seeing the game now and as it was in, say, 2020 and 2022, cannot fail to see how it has diminished in scope.

 

Trains included in Rush Hour were mainly old trains or reworked trains. I believe DRA was all trains already in the game and one modified shunter so nothing that hadn’t been seen before, London Commuter came with the 377 already used in East Coastway and the almost identical 387, and Boston Sprinter was reworked trains also but did come with more new content as the differences were bigger for the F40 and there was a new cab car included. There were complaints at the time that there wasn’t much truly new included considering it was the yearly bundle but you can count them as having one truly new train per route if you are being generous, certainly no more than one each.

More generally, if you go through all the routes in order of release and plot the new trains that first came with each route it is very rare that there is more than one. This has always been the case as I remember posting the same thing a long time ago when someone posted that the number of trains was decreasing. There have been routes released with more than one truly new train but it isn’t a case of routes used to come with more trains and now they come with fewer as it has always been that way. How many trains a route ends up with when all layers and loco DLC are counted makes some routes appear like they came with more.

 

There wasn't an option to vote for the default option though, which I would certainly have chosen! Therefore the poll isn't really reflective, not that it would be anyway as we are only a microcosm of DTG's customer base.

 

Sorry, I also forgot to put in a "sit on the fence" option. The default option is what DTG are doing now, so you select "no" in the poll for them to continue as is.

 

We still need an option for both.

I want them to produce content as well as fix bugs and glitches. Any reasonable poll would have that option.

 

Wanting reality isn't a sit on the fence option, as has been set out above many times by many people. Maybe taking the time to try and understand other people's thoughts might enable you to put your ignorance to one side and make a worthwhile contribution instead of just insulting people who disagree with you.

 

Then, you pick no.

 

The poll selection is......you either want DTG to stop and fix the mess pick (yes) or you want things to continue you select (no) The sit on the fence option is you don't have to actually take part in the poll. Again, we are back to the focus about a poll and not the subject.

 

Not going to take part in your poll, but I will say it speaks volumes that you won't edit your poll options to include the do both option. It's almost like keeping it this way it furthers the narrative you want people to think.....

 

You do not want to take part in my poll, that's fine. Do you actually have anything of value to add to the topic?

 

Does this poll actually add any value to the forums?

 

But I want them to produce new content and fix bugs/glitches.

Picking no in the poll just says that I don't want them to stop producing new content. It does not say that I want them to also fix bugs/glitches.

 

Prices increased but quality in my view has decreased. That is also not related to tsw as this is an issue with some triple a games as well. Routes like NY-Trenton, Edinburgh-Glasgow, Maintalbahn and Fife Circle are just some routes that were or still are riddled with problems. Heck, I've had multiple red light issues on the LIRR. I shouldn't have to delete trains to complete a service and in journey mode, you can't even delete trains. Also the version in tsc looks much better than the version in tsw. Isn't tsw supposed to be the "future of train simulation?"

It does seem that DTG have narrowed the scope so to speak considering that most routes nowadays are just EMU routes or short "filler" routes with little variety. I've been playing tsw since 2020 and even though I do enjoy playing, I don't agree that the game is in a better state overall than it was 4 years ago. The is too much inconsistency

 

The value that I add to this topic is simple, I'm highlighting a viewpoint that you clearly don't want people think.......

 

It obviously does because you keep taking part.

 

It really doesn't. It's completely pointless.

All its resulted in is people talking about the poll and the limited options you've given.

And, last time I checked, unless I was breaking the rules in any way, I can post here as I see fit.

 

That is your opinion, however that does not add any value to the subject in hand other than trying to drill holes in a poll, the subject is not the poll. Players can make up their own mind if they wish to take part in the poll or not, you are not forced to be here.

 

A lot of irony here. You almost sound like DTG. Changes to the poll are not on your roadmap so we will have to settle with this poll?

 

You have the freedom to go where you like, but if you are not happy with this poll use that said freedon to find another poll that you are happy to take part in and enjoy.

 

Didn't say I wasn't happy with it, just annoyed with the yes or no options. Neither of which will yield results that don't validate opinions.

 

I have figured it out, I should have set up a poll about a poll and then you guys would probably wanna talk about trains

 

Yes it does by the numbers who have taken part in the poll and DTG will be able to see this information. I am sure debates about a poll is no help to TSW.

 

Anyone who votes yes just needs to look at where the revenue for fixing bugs comes from. The only way to do that is for DTG to continue producing new content.

Anyway, I've made my point. Have a nice day.

 

But you also don't get revenue by abandoning the core game and keep making content with an unstable base.

Obviously DTG can't cut their revenue stream, but they need to do something about the general issues that will continue to plague future routes from both them and their 3rd party groups.

I keep looking at SCS software and how they handle things, while they may still not be perfect, they have a good enough player base and devs that they can support bug fixes, keep making new content, update the old outdated maps from ETS2 and ATS's releases, plus free trucks.

 

Says who about what? It's not like DTG is begging us to buy their stuff as nobody is buying it and this poll should help them grow their business. The DTG forum battle cry has always been "vote with your wallet". It's the only vote that really counts.

 

Although I partly can agree, I think the "Do both" option wouldn't make much sense because of a simple reason. DTG never did it this way, neither are doing so and it's very unlikely that they change their business strategy and setup enough ressources and devs in the future to do both in an excellent manner.

Yes, the "Do both" option would be great to provide more freedom of speech, however is completely unrealisitic facing the main concern: DTG, and What should DTG focus on in the future with their/Focus' business thinking?

 

These are basically the reasons why I'm starting to lose interest in Train Sim World and starting to discover more and more the features and gems of other Games like ETS and try to support SCS for their unbrakable and free of charge support to optimize the game instead of Dovetail Games.

A good running core game with less bugs, highly optimized features, free of charge updates and last but not least more and in some POV better DLCs which do have a way inferior price tag attached.

On long term and although Train Sim World makes a lot of fun to play, going forward into the future and continue my support of them for years onwards simply makes no much sense as competitors offer do offer with their products and services much more fun (and to mention also less anger) for way less money.

Did I even mention the non-existance of game-braking bugs there?