That's why they need to organise better, so more than one team is working on routes and eventually you will always have an overlap giving something new every three or four months.
You must not understand how a business operates. It is a perfectly valid excuse. more staff will mean work costs involved as you have to ensure you have a large enough space to employ more staff. Then the costs of the equipment for that staff which uses power again a further cost. You then have a salary to pay for extra staff as well as other benefits ie pension and concessions etc. Who would foot the bill for that. Guess who is the user which would incur higher costs for us to purchase the content. Always looks good when you don’t run a business and say “employ more staff” money don’t grow on trees it has to come from somewhere.
So, if I had another 10 people doing the same job as me, would we be more productive? No, we wouldn't, because there isn't enough work for them all. More staff doesn't equal more productivity. Its the quality of their work that matters, not how many of them there are. Less is more, quality over quantity.
I think detail and service patterns are more important than sheer length. Dresden - Riesa does it very well but indeed IC runs there are only fun because of how busy and speed change intensive they are. HMA for the same 30 mins is way less fun because outside of München there is not much traffic. KWG is interesting to drive very high speed but gets boring quick as it's the same thing every service. and not much to look at but a tunnel wall and some trees. ECML I personally haven't played much but as a high speed line I enjoy it more with the extra freight and other trains in between the end stations. longer routes are indeed great. I would argue the perfect service length for just playing a route quickly is 50 ish minutes. sometimes I like to do a 30 or 20 minute run if it's a special service but a 2 to 7 minute branch service is just too short. like the S9 or S7 in Wuppertal that's literally one minute driving one station. setting up the train takes longer than you drive it for those 600 meters. although 50 minutes is perfect for me. I do enjoy 50 to 90 minutes the most. and the occasional 2 hour service is also fun if you have the time and know the route well. so although longer routes would be great. I think it adds more if the focus is set on special functions or operations, service variation. Rolling stock is also a must for me. I don't need to use my entire library but I would like to end the amount of desolate stations on the map (that includes unused industries along the line)
Well, forgive me for answering! FYI I ran a successful business and know full well what works and what doesnt! You arent the only one with knowledge! Anyway, if you don't respond to what the customer wants ultimately your business will go down the pan. Customers couldn't care less about the minutiae if running a business.
As most have said in this forum the route lengths we get are more than enough. yes high speed COULD be longer but the majority of people are happy with commuter routes which we currently get. They will never please everyone always some will feel left out but personally I think they have the majority on side
It’s funny you say that, when I see so many comments saying why a route has terminated at X and not at Y or Z. York instead of Doncaster, Ramsgate instead of Faversham, St Moritz instead of Ospizio Bernina etc. People saying they don’t want longer routes… when the evidence is there in comment section.
People saying they don't want shorter routes... and there's evidence against them? Huh. I spoke purely for myself as does anyone else who shares that viewpoint - length is pretty meaningless when it comes to gameplay and "oh routes should be longer" is a nothing point. If we want to talk about comment voting then; Small Networks are more popular than Long Mainlines; Diverse rolling stock and a busy timetable > a long & dead route, etc. There's a reason hardly anyone raves about Kassel-Würzburg. It's the longest route in TSW, by far, has a fun-enough train in the ICE1, but is an utter snoozefest to drive. LGV Mediteraneé is the exact same but shorter - same driving experience, just shorter. Being able to do a run like that in half an hour - where you may just end up on your phone to entertain yourself; compared to the hour+ offered by KWG, which can be a near-death experience - is better. Length means absolutely nothing.
Sometimes, a short route bores me, other times a long route does. It all depends on the route, service variety, rolling stock etc. Length is only one part.
Yes I love networks but there’s been some A to B releases that I really enjoy. Niddertalbahn, goblin, etc But then again I tend to play a lot differently than a lot of l players. I play with no HUD and there’s a lot of replay value in that; all the route learning that goes into it + the extra focus it takes to run without a HUD really transforms some of these A-B routes like ECML, goblin, niddertalbahn, etc
By the same token though I don't see people deride it that often, I don't see it get talked about much at all frankly, good or bad. But assuming even if it is derided by the player base I would point out so are Rivet, or even some of Skyhook's routes. And bare in mind when people do criticize those routes there's a small but passionate group of people come out of the woodwork to defend. Every route has its fanbase, that's kind of the point of having all this content avaliable in the first place. Also there's been routes that I've seen people not rave about on the forum that are actually rather popular. It's actually funny you compare it to LGV, because from what I remember that route wasn't actually discussed all that often back in 2021/22. To the point I had actually seen people make the assumption that it bombed in multiple threads. Wasn't the case though, one of the most popular TSW routes in 2021, to the point of it doing better than every US route minus the built-in Sand Patch Grade. On the flipside some routes on the forum people are very passionate about, but in reality were actually a bit of dud in terms of popularity. For example you saw lots of people frequently argue Clinchfield as a solid favorite amongst the US content, I personally like it a lot myself. Here's how it did in amongst all the other 2021 route add-ons that year. It doesn't appear at all, it's actually really damning since if I remember correctly there were exactly 11 routes released that year. And Sherman Hill had only released a month prior, where as Clinchfield had since April to build up sales. The fact Sherman Hill bumped it off so quickly really suggest it was not all that popular with the general player base despite all the raving on the forums at the time.
Yes I’d stick to the smaller, condensed thirty minute routes as you say. Don’t want you falling asleep now lol.
Niddertalbahn is a good shout out, that’s a superb route. It’s the scenery that sold it for me. It’s also as close to a Japanese route we got to. Yes I can imagine there’s a lot of satisfaction in driving without the HUD, that’s something that I would like to try one day. Learn the route as you say and see how I get on. I’d probably start with the ECML as I did gain some knowledge from watching that Azuma train driver. Forgotten most of it now though haha so would definitely need a recap.
I personally lean towards the longer side on routes, ESPECIALLY inter-city routes, one thing that really grinds my gears about TSW IC routes is that the high speed sensation doesn’t last long enough, it’s really only ECML that quenches that urge and even still I feel like after completing a run I could go further, I guess that has more to do with end points, a lot of end points in TSW don’t make sense, NYT and ECML is a prime example of this, it makes no sense ending the route at Trenton instead of Philadelphia, and the route ending at Doncaster instead of York or Leeds. For commuter routes though there’s definitely a Goldilocks zone, with the longest routes being 75 miles, so essentially 30-70 is that sweet spot. Longer commuter routes have diminishing values past 75 miles, but proper IC/High Speed routes should be aiming for 80-120 miles
Those complaints are about terminating points not route length. Never seen a person complain that ECML is too short, rather they say that the route ends at a strange point as Doncaster is just as much of an intermediate station as grantham is on the ECML. same with bernina and SEHS. People prefer having full line runs as opposed to the middle of lines. No one complains that Blackpool branches is too short even tho its half the length of ECML and SEHS which do get those critiques. it just has good cut off points with nice variety
It makes sense when you look at New Jersey Transit only, and not Amtrak, also baring the current situation with no SEPTA license means that half the route would of been devoid of any commuter traffic (Until DTG changes their stance on unbranded trains). Though DTG shouldn't of cut NJT's Morrisville's yard past Trenton......
This is true of most routes, too; ECML; Doncaster A lot of services completely bypass it Bernina; Ospizio Bernina Literally just a halt in the middle of the Alps; not a terminus SEHS; Faversham Arguably a random spot - although the line spitting makes it tough to extend past (also, TSC London-Faversham is what TSW SEHS was) WCL; St. Austell A bit of a nothingness. Personally i'd have stuck to Truro and thrown in Falmouth in the same dev time. NYT; Trenton From an NJT lens, a strange end. Then again, not too bad. Harlem; NWP Partly a length complaint, but more often down to it's insignificance as a terminus
If you don't make money, the business also goes "down the pan." The customers are one part of the business yes. The "revenue" side. However, there's also the "cost" side. As a business manager, you should know that surely. Perhaps if you could suggest a way to manage the two better using your experiences as an example? It would be more constructive than just assuming nefarious motives on the part of DTG. I'd genuinely like to hear your constructive feedback and suggestions. If you were running DTG and knowing the increased cost to develop "longer routes", how would you go about it as a manager?
Questionable...on Bernina you're going from the lowest point (Tirano, 429m NN) to the highest point (Ospizio 2.253m NN). So, all in all, somehow a reasonable point to cut... And NWP...let's say it with wikipedia..."North White Plains station is a commuter rail stop on the Metro-North Railroad's Harlem Line, located in the North White Plains neighborhood of White Plains, New York. It is the north terminal for most trains that run local to the south and, until 1984, was the northern limit of electrification." Doesn't seem to be that insignificant as a terminal....
Isn’t a terminating point the equivalent to distance on a route. Same thing basically. Maybe not the ECML, but I’ve seen plenty of posts in the past 12 months with people on this forum wishing for longer routes. You’re right, Blackpool is a great route. I don’t think it’s short at all, but that’s probably down to the speed in which you’re travelling.
Happily do what you suggest…but I’m not giving a commercial entity ‘free’ advice…they want it they pay for it!
I enjoy a lot of the shorter routes and networks as they feel complete. Longer routes for me work if they have logical major stations at both ends. As alluded to above ECML is good length wise but I still find Doncaster as the northern end point of the route doesn't feel immersive. Even MML which is great and has three major stations doesn't feel logical as most services pass through each of those stations, even the local ones. The exception being Nottingham of course, which isn't a long run in a HST from Leicester. I want to see a variety of long and short routes, but it is harder to make long routes feel complete I imagine.
It isn't short overall and is a nice little network but a non stop run from Preston to Blackpool North doesn't last long. It's a fantastic route however.
Terminating point isnt equivelant. People have been talking about routes like the Goblin and Glossop for being too short as they are less than 20 miles. People do wish for longer routes ofcourse but you were talking about the complaints of weird end points. ECML isnt short by any means its actually the longest UK route but its end points are just kinda akwardly in the middle of the line. This is a reason why you need to define what you mean by "longer". more distance or more time? you can have an hour long stopping service like on the Bakerloo but that route is still short in length compared to the hour long services on the ECML. I would rather have more variety in branches and better endpoints rather than it just being longer for the sake of it.
So you're gonna just complain, blame and not offer any constructive solutions? At least we know you're not interested in solutions so thank you for clearing that up. You just want to complain. To each their own. I had to give you the benefit of the doubt.
If a route's drive takes an hour to complete in general, sometimes assuming stops, that is usually good enough. That said, longer routes provide more variety for that drive. Keep in mind route development costs money, too, if being done by a company that pays employees; it's not like you or I going out there and taking a route video to recreate from for fun.
But if you are complaining they are not doing things right in a hobby you enjoy then not willing to say what is wrong and how they can improve the how do you expect them to improve. ??? As someone once said “gotta love all these pretend Alan sugars on these forums”
Okay, to be clear. I mean a whole network of lines. If you’ve read any of previous comments then you’ll know i’ve never been a fan of A to B only routes.
Oh ffs! DTG aren’t the SIS (Secret Intelligence Agency). In business, more employees equals more productivity. They’re a company who distributes digital content for their customers. If DTG had 200 staff solely for making content, with 30 staff members working on 5 planned routes that have a 12 month deadline, than I’d say that’s more than enough time to make more fulfilling routes for the masses.
you are correct more employees means more productivity but I can gurantee you will be the first to complain if they done that approach and had to increase prices due to higher operating costs.
Incorrect. I would happily pay more money for the extra development time. Which I already mentioned in a previous comment on this post, if you bothered to look.
THAT is the real question.... WOULD you pay more? And are you in the minority or the majority? Not personal man, just taking the devil's advocate approach given how.... opinionated.... and they don't always do what they SAY they will. Take all those people who say "I'd pay twice as much for Products Made in America!" Then...it turns out no they won't when offered those exact products. Saying you're willing to pay $80-$100 for twice the content is a BIG "if." Most people probably wouldn't...which is why they say they have a "sweet spot" around the $30-50 mark.
$79.99 is the price of a top end game here in Canada by a top end developer. $80 on a DLC would not fly.
Talking of end points, every time I do SEHS and go past the Sherness branch I just don't get why they didn't add that 7 miles considering a load of services go up there and terminate. A logical end point added.
Yeah I would, but it would depend on how much. In British pounds, £50-60 seems reasonable fro me, any higher then I probably wouldn’t or I’d wait for the sales. That’s the “sweet spot” as you said and something DTG would have to experiment on, to see how much their customers are willing to pay.
All of this debate is all well and good, but let's not forget TSC has a number of quite long routes, look no further than the UK with the various WCML sections, Western Lines Of Scotland etc. No one for a second suggested they should be sold at a higher price or as a premium product. And yes we know all the arguments about UE etc. being more demanding to work with and my (brief) dabble with the editor bore some of that out. However professional route and asset builders, accomplished in working with the format should lap that up and frankly there is little excuse for not giving us routes equivalent to TSC or MSTS and at a reasonable price. I just don't think DTG actually have that many people on staff capable of building routes or train assets which is why they are not tougher on the likes of Rivet when they produce sub par content. They chose UE as the medium for TSW and should b....y well get on with it, at this point!
There is a difference between making a comment and saying you WILL pay and actually PAYING. It’s very easy to puts on a screen but carrying out the task is a different matter.
Not very many services go up there it is a shuttle train that runs back and forth to sheerness from sittingbourne every 30 minutes during the day. Iirc there is 2 trains a day that carry on towards gillingham at night purpose of that being to go to depot and stable and the same in morning in reverse.
I remember on a stream a while ago they said they had to choose whether to make the extension to Dartford or Sheerness. Now obviously it would’ve been better if we had both but I think they made the right decision when choosing Dartford instead, if they hadn’t a lot of the services would’ve still been cutoff at Gravesend.
Dartford was a better end point to choose than Sheerness. Downside being the Sheerness branch has no chance of appearing at all. Not like you'd miss out on much though, add in all layers and there's enough to do on the route.
It is a Nice branch and they did add it in TSC out of the blue so never say never. Also has the famous bridge that goes onto the island.
