Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 3 Year Anniversary

Yes. Their stuff works and I love it! I don't need to go troubleshooting and can enjoy immersive high quality locos and sounds. That's not harmful by any means. AP lets me enjoy my hobby. Without waiting for patches because they don't release untested beta products.

Richard is a perfectionist and it shows. Just see how he recorded ambient sounds from 59 places along the MML London - Bedford to create a living world. Awesome! Deserves the money, absolutely. Devs like AP are rare. And if you know how the RailWorks TimeOfDay system works, you cannot not be amazed what AP were able to do with that old system. If I see commitment and passion, I'm all in and happy to spend my money - much better than paying for a mediocre €36 TSW DLC where I find game breaking bugs within one minute of playing.

I didn't say any addiction was harmful. TSW was for me. See the whole forums. It's all about what's broken and what could be.

Jpantera Of course. It's like LEGO. When you start, you cannot build complex stuff. You need an assortment of bricks (=assets) first to build and play more models (=routes). That takes time. I was frustrated like you when I started until I understood the whole modular TSC payware/freeware system. And then there's libraries, with Rail-Sim.de being the most important now. UKTS has been saved too on archive.org. US > RailWorksAmerica.com. You're missing assets, go ask on the TSC forums. You'll get help there.

It's a sim for Hunters and Collectors. Nothing more exciting than replacing the last milk bottle with the appropriate asset, for me that is. You get stuff for free, but it takes a little effort from your side too to deserve it...

It's not a game for the short-attention-span generation. My collection has grown over more than 8 years, and the more you have the less you need to search for assets. That's a strength and weakness. There's no centralized control as in TSW, everyone can publish their stuff using any assets they like. Which also means DTG get bashed when a 3rd party route doesn't work after an update - which more than often is the fault of the 3rd party by not sticking to design guidelines, or not using the BlueprintEditor but manually cloning assets with a text editor and messing up things such as something as small as a duplicate xml node id. Which can work now but can crash tomorrow.

In the end, the huge variety is what makes it. I can find a new freeware route every day, just installed three new routes yesterday. I really enjoy it - it's a long term hobby and I do not need a successor for TSC as I think I understand the game mechanics pretty good and appreciate the thought that was put into it, that made it such a long running sim and lets people be creative and publish stuff on their own.

I'm just happy with things as they are right now in TSC.

 

This year I've come to conclusion - TSW 4 has been the waste of money and SDD space in most cases.....unfortunately

I do not see any perspectives with the whole branch.

TSW is is a kind of failed experment. DTG simply wanted to try UE4 in railway game.

 

A new game every year does have one advantage that is real. With updates to the core almost certain to break something in older routes, like how the houses near East Croydon now turn black as you get closer to them (another texture lighting bug like the stripes on Reading station platforms), there is always an unbroken version in an earlier iteration if you want to avoid the bug (assuming you keep the old versions installed of course). Free upgrades every year would not have this safety net. I’m all for a new game every year or two just for this reason alone. The bundles that come with the new games are the best value content so no problem paying for them but the downloading of all the DLC will still remain a right pain. Fingers crossed for TSW5 lol.

 

And frankly I'm very happy about that.

You are eliding the important point that the alleged "good stuff" from AP is designed to take as much of your money as possible to even run.

 

Just to chip in here, I'm actually enjoying TSC without too much stuff from AP. I waited until the Wherry Lines turned up on Steam and went on sale. Routes like Berlin S-Bahn are superb (waiting for a sale on Ringbahn) and currently have a run going on Hamburg to Hannover with a DB 101. WCML North and WCML Over Shap can be enjoyed without investing in AP enhancements though admit I am eyeing their Class 86 sound pack.

Must admit I am quite selective when it comes to content away from Steam, particularly freeware, as I do dislike the great dependency hunt. However routes like Stainmore Summit from SSS or the Virtual District Line are worth the little bit of work to get the required assets in there.

 

I’ve just picked up a number of vintage routes for TS in the recent sale, and am really enjoying “Woodhead Railway in Blue”. Such a wondrous piece of engineering to build and electrify that route for what amounted to just 16 years of proper use by the excellent Class 76 electric locos. The TS route does it full justice and helps preserve that long gone line for eternity.
This is the sort of thing that is our railway heritage and should be thought about being done for TSW4, but no just more modern one handled emu’s and routes that all look and feel the same.
Sad really, but thank goodness for TS and the Railworks Enhancer 2 that makes it look nearly as good as TSW but with way more depth.

 

Frankly i am happy that there are not too many people, like you about.

 

what is AP?

 

Armstrong Powerhouse

 

The Enough Is Enough award goes to DTG for their failure in the simulator development world. For broken promises, goof ups and a general apathy towards their paying customers.

 

They (the public face of DTG) seem to genuinely care about the game, well at least Matt does. No offence to the many community managers that have come and gone, but unusually for a train sim company "thou shalt have trains in thy blood" seems absent from the job description (with the notable exception of Jamie). It is quite obvious from the last 2 or 3 years' direction that the suits are now firmly vetting content releases and future development. Case in point; new much-vaunted bouncy suspension a year in development, completely devoid of any underfloor animation (springs and axle boxes "frozen"). Just waiting for the classic "we ran out of time" excuse on the next roadmap.

 

I reckon Mr Wilfred is now in charge. Sean Bean at his most Machiavellian!

 

Yes it sure does.

LOL

Fingers crossed that it is a total commercial flop and forces DTG to rethink the awful habit of taking their long suffering ̶m̶u̶g̶s̶ customers for granted whilst shamelessly milking them of every last penny for a well below acceptable, often unfit for purpose second or third rate product.

 

JD is simply too busy with his TikTok quizzes to love trains, he’s an online quizzing icon these days!


As for the battle (poor choice of word) between TSC and TSW, for me I’ve enjoyed TSW more the past couple of years although I’ve played TSC since 2013. The amount of money I need to spend in order to play certain routes is insane, and there are some absolute morons, especially in the ATS community. I’ve loved TSC, but life is at a point now where a more casual approach is needed. That and I can’t face upgrading my PC again!

 

DTG have been doing this every year, and everytime, their plan has worked, no matter how much ranting, how much raving, and how much anger it will cause, people are still going to buy it. the idea of yearly releases may sound absurd to some people, yes, but it’ll still make money.

 

I´m not... Fully gone back to TSC, just like some others in this thread.

 

Bye then.

 

Good for you. Don't let TSW live rent free in your head and move on now.

 

Ahahahaha, they used the term woke!

 

And they took his post away, or did he delete it, granted it was not the best way to say what he did, but that warranted removal.

 

Don't worry. toms87 has just released a freeware route for TSC which blows everything TSW out of the water. No need for TSW and its grumpy ever disappointed community

 

Good for him again. I wish him all good luck with his new freeware route and I hope it keeps him in the manner to which he has become accustomed. I'm not grumpy btw and I don't want anyone else to be. We all have a choice and it's good to see people making positive ones for themselves because life is far too short to be getting upset over a game, especially when there are other options out there.

 

It has always puzzled me why any of the “I don’t play TSW any more” gang stick around on the forum telling us about it all the time, going on about this game or that game that are all way better than TSW and letting us know about every purchase and refund and such like. Blimey, if I ever decided not to play TSW any longer or stopped buying DLC for whatever reason I might mention it once and then you wouldn’t hear from me again. If I decided to play something else instead I would be on forums about that game not this one. Obviously all DTG games share the same forum so there will always be the “TSC is better than TSW” repeated endlessly by some as they are already logged in here and some valid comparisons can be made. I don’t think I’ve ever posted in the TSC forum though let alone harping on about my preferred game of choice over there because I don’t have TSC. If anyone now plays TSC and doesn’t play TSW any more they could just shut up about it and save us all having to read it every time we log on. And for those who announce their departure but don’t actually go anywhere that’s just a bit sad.

 

it was actually the first time I mentioned it... because I had not bought DLC or used the game for ages and I thought, I´ll just dump that in the "enough is enough" thread. This is the place for that kind of thing, right?

 

Well I wasn’t talking about you. I was talking about those people who go on and on about it. This thread is not the only place they do it. It’s all over the forum now. Hardly any thread is safe from the “TSC is better” crowd.

 

okay...

I understand ... I also dislike peoeple talking about TSW in the TSC area. Strange how these two communities have become sworn enemies. I wonder how DTG feels about that?

 

Doubt they care much as long as any rules aren't broken and people keep buying.

 

You should take a look at the MSFS community if you think it’s bad here lol

 

In all honesty, I was really hyped when this game came to console - I’d played TSC when I was younger and loved it. But, I’m just not getting any satisfaction from this game. Feel like I’m being took as a mug in this game by DTG because I still buy the DLCs. DTG doesn’t listen to what the community wants and I’ll bet that when it comes to August/September, we’ll have TSW5 advertised with some absolute mid tier routes which nobody has requested. The routes have no feel to them, the locos are lacking, major terminus like Piccadilly and New Street which are some of the busiest stations in the country just have some 323s in them. All I hope is the team listen to the community more and include them in deciding the direction of the game because the direction it’s going in at the moment isn’t a good direction to be going in.

 

As much as I'm not playing, so I would fit your category, I like to give feedback where appropriate because I wouldn't mind the game getting back on track and me returning to it. If all of us dissatisfied leave and you only end up with loyal, satisfied buyers, you can expect one hell of a quality drop because the group that's left will buy it anyway, so why bother?

Even if I don't play, I am still a potential customer if DTG changes its philosophy in the right direction.

 

There's giving feedback, and there's hijacking threads saying you don't play it anymore because the other one is better.

The latter one is what's being said more.

 

Well it looks like I will be playing it again now the 218 is coming out!

And TSC is not without frustrations. Standard scenarios seem to fail for no apparent reason or just being a minute or two late. Had one last night, AP Class 321 (very nice) run on GEML from Liverpool Street to Colchester Town. Did everything the scenario asked, not late but for some reason decided I had only completed 8 out of 9 objectives = scenario incomplete. What a load of old dollocks.

Two evenings ago, same thing on Hamburg S Bahn. A couple of the stops are timed, arrived two or three minutes late cos I was messing around setting up the IBIS at the start - objective failed. Ah luck off and die…

So tonight I think I may just fire up TSW again where it is virtually impossible to fail and certainly not due to finicky objective points or unrealistic scheduling.

 

I feel TSW in that respect is a lot more focused on gameplay rather than unachievable objectives as subconciously it does affect gameplay when you want to complete something, so in that respect yes; TSW is a lot more about enjoying the role of driving than it being solely this.

 

And that's the sad thing really. Why do they have to be sworn enemies? The products offer different things to different people. Neither is (objectively) perfect.

(I'm not saying that you see them as sworn enemies.)

 

I don’t think the two communities are sworn enemies. Both are just games, after all. There is probably less hate for TSW on the TSC forum (or vice versa) here than say on the SimRail or SimRail Steam forums.

All the train sim products (even Trainz with its easy to use editor) offer a unique feature the others don’t and I enjoy most of them.

 

I'd imagine most TSC users are just bemused that a 15 year old product can do the core thing that a brand new one does significantly better.

 

There we go again, can't resist saying something snippy.

(Your word choice/sentence structure introduces at least two logical confusions, btw.)

 

Yes I didn’t get that either. Did he mean to say TSC does things better than TSW does?

confused.com!!

 

Like steam simulation? Oh wait....

 

Yawner Summer

 

I'm just now noticing! This thread has 250,000 views! Wow! The creator of the topic has hit the jackpot))

Even those who are not interested in TSW probably read this thread

 

Class 104

 

The pricing for the new German loco indicates that in the USA we are getting a price break, while UK players are paying slightly more for it in comparison, based on today's £1 = $1.27 rate. This is opposite of the situation from early 2023, where US players paid about 20% more for new content. What is so difficult about using the universal exchange rate consistently in pricing?

 

But it's about the money, just filling kitty that slowly falls into the pockets

 

Constant currencies. Exchange rates don't stay the same, so companies have to try to tune out the impact of fluctuations in their accounts.

 

The issues with objectives in standard scenarios are the main reason why career scenarios are generally better, as they just penalise you for getting something wrong rather than making you fail the whole scenario. Career scoring is a faff to set up though, which is why I've never bothered making them unfortunately.

 

To drive this point home, wow. I just saw the update log for the German content. Am I the only one who feels like it's a whole lot of nothing? Especially when, immediately after that, a bunch of threads pop up about glaring issues they left out. Truly just a publisher now...

 

Indeed. Loads of core issues untouched, notably the save game outstanding quibbles which have been well and truly swept under the carpet. What’s the point in having a game format where you can remain in a persistent and dynamic world if, once you finish your first run and jump on another service, the save/load no longer restores the objective data? I notice not even Matt will come on and tell us where we are with that one. Nowhere, I suspect and - like fixing steam physics - left abandoned because they don’t have anyone left to untangle the spaghetti code which generated the fault in the first place.

 

For me the TSC v TSW debate comes down to what is on offer more than anything else. TSC with RW Enhancer 2 looks gorgeous but not as photo realistic as some routes in TSW, not all, some have poor scenery.
But if I want to drive retro US freight or steam there is only one game in town isn’t there? Until DTG stop catering solely for the console whizzy kid who want to go as fast as possible with minimum effort or engaging of brain, then TSW will continue to be plagued by one handled modern EMU’s and little else, aside from red bricks pulling the same old cars over and over again.
Gets repetitive after a while.

 

Now we've had the UK and German updates, which no-one seems very excited about, when will we get the promised North American updates? And will they include the needed improvements to NYT, for instance. We already know that Clinchfield, Oakville and Sherman Hill will not likely see any changes. How about Cajon Pass and Antelope?