PC Should We Take It Easy On Dtg For Tsw?

Hi,

I know I am new here and every thing. but I got to thinking. this simulator just came out in November. so it is still young. how you expect a new thing to come out and not have bugs/glitches ect? I am no computer programmer or any thing. but I am quite sure if I made something it would surely have bugs in it. what are some thoughts on this? like if Microsoft for example made a new OS it would have bugs they would have to work out to you know? nothing is perfect

thanks
iosman

 

This game has been out for well over 2 years at this point so I'm not sure where you're getting November from. The game released March of 2017 for PC and July of last year for consoles.

 

What do they "pull on us all the time"?!

 

I would say, be measured, respectful and polite whether you are criticising or praising and be free to do either! But considering the angry, hyperbolic rants we sometimes see which do nothing for an argument then I suspect some just can't manage that.

 

I don't think going easy right now would be the right thing, they need to be criticized for the things they do wrong (i. e. the sound bugs, the broken ATC, the broken textures on CSX wagons, etc..).
Part of the reason why I'm saying this is that there is nearly no communication coming from DTG regarding those bugs and errors they make. Everything we always get to hear is 'It's on the list', which basically could mean anything.
If there was some communication, like 'we are working on bug XYZ', or 'this bug takes quite a while, for those reasons: [..]', then I would prefer taking it easy in DTG.
But as of now, we absolutely don't know what's going on, sometimes they even try to blame the end user ('It's got to be your PC, not our software!') for things which are DTGs fault (AI trains blocking each other and therefore causing only red signals) and there isn't even any acknowledging of the reported bugs.
So: no, don't take it easy on them (at least not yet)

 

Yes, I think you have it right here with what you said. Just a notification of what is being worked on would be great.

 

When was the last time we had a studio update?
Update on the editor etc?

 

Studio update is the last concern here. It was released at the begining of April.

 

Agreed. I suspect that the bad attitude of some people is what causes the lack of communication. Just look at every single Facebook post they put out. The comments are mix of complaints, outright hate and questions about future releases. Very little polite and on-subject interaction. Very little sense that the people following them on Facebook actually like the games they put out.

This company and product can't do anything without being the target of some really nasty responses. Even the responses that aren't outright hostile still often have an undertone of superiority and sarcasm that no official channel is ever going to acknowledge. That easily drowns out the constructive criticism, legitimate bug reports and well-constructed inquires that the developers and official spokespeople probably could engage with.

 

‘Taking it easy’ on DTG would basically mean a get out of jail free card for them. If anything, the community should be pushing DTG to communicate more with us.

History has already repeated itself many times already. They go through a phase of attempting to communicate with us before going totally silent again. This has happened countless times before.

As mentioned before, when we ask when will X bug be fixed or is it being worked on, we always get the same ‘It’s on the list’, which doesn’t tell us anything. It’s pretty much like saying ‘how long is a piece of string.’

I second that on when submitting a ticket in when we find a bug. You send in a detailed report and they then send a totally unrelated reply such as ‘your graphics drivers need updating.’ For some reason they always feel as it is the end user at fault, when 90% of the time it is a fault at their end and only something they can fix.

As a whole this company seriously needs to improve its customer service and communication skills. Both are inadequate.

 

Yeah but the problem might be on our side as well. Whenever they try to tell us a bit of information like what they are working on, they get a lot of negative feedback saying that they should work on something else (usually not very mature). No wonder that they are trying to minimize the amount of public info so that people can't comment and criticize it.

 

That's the problem they don't tell us what they're working on,
So they go back to radio silence because they are afraid of negative comments?
A company that doesn't engage with customers won't last very long.
Just releasing a little video on social media or a look behind the scenes or a update on what they have in the pipeline for the future would quieten down a lot of criticism.

 

Well they have lasted for the last ten years or so! Maybe the "community" should take some of the blame for the "radio silence" then!

 

LastTrainToClarksville If you’re going to downvote everyone’s post which mentions that DTG need to do improve their communication or other things, then at least include some sort of constructive criticism for your actions.

It’s no good downvoting on every single post which basically doesn’t include saying DTG are nothing but amazing. It is neither useful to the poster or to DTG.

 

They built a base game, how it has survived has been third party addons.

 

Without the editor this game will remain quite featureless and boring. They don't have the time or resources to put out something of high quality that's feature rich.

 

Considering DLC quality has gotten worse with the latest Amtrak DLC, I'd say "going easy" on them should be the last thing we should be doing. TVL was a great route, and for whatever reason they decided to just phone it in with the latest release.


Also considering we've gotten nothing but silence on the editor for the past month+, some more communication would be nice on that front.

 

Lol

 

I say give them hell with the last dlc quality.

 

I've noticed that.

 

Worse?

 

It’s fine.

 

You have to admit that it had a fair share of bugs (which most of have been fixed now, yes) and that the Cabcar services especially are created very uninspired and one of them cant even be completed by now still. And releasing DLC to a route with so many issues isnt a great thing to do aswell without tackling those bugs. It just leaves a bad impression. Since we have seen the backslash from the 182 announcement for RT it left the impression: We only go and fix bugs if enough people complain and wont buy a DLC. If that doesnt happen no bugs are going to get fixed. Thats the message they created with their actions.

To the actual topic i think its important to leave constructive criticism where its appropriate and also to leave positive feedback for the things they did well. Ranting without any actual constructive criticism isnt doing any good, aswell as saying all is fine and overseeing the things they need to improve doesnt help either.

 

Saying everything is ‘fine’ is just as bad as saying everything is bad, when it clearly isn’t.

It provides no useful feedback which is no help to the developers in potentially making better products for future DLC.

If you’re happy with the current quality of DLC’s, then fine, but I certainly know they can do a lot better and improve on things if they really put the effort and work in.

We should be pushing, but at the same time supporting and leaving useful and constructive criticism, to the developers so they can continue to make improvements. Sometimes it seems one step forward and two steps back.

Snakes and ladders come into mind?

 

How can’t you complete them?

 

Very well said. Sometimes I think what would help is, for lack of a better word, an adult section here in the forums, where us grown-ups can talk and engage with the DTG team. Civilized, with a bit more wisdom, with at least a hint of understanding for certain realities about software development, about railways as well as life in general (and may I add, typography?). Without people who confuse suggesting for requesting. Without people who are oblivious to all the shades of grey between fanboy and pitchfork. Without ten-year-olds who downvote the BR155 on Steam for not being an ICE.

It would help a lot if, as a developer, (and I say this as a content creator for another game or two) you could state this next DLC will take longer because XYZ, this feature here is not implemented because this and that, without fearing a horde of angry squeakers being like, "Idc, I just want me tranis NOW!" and thereby outscreaming any constructive and meaningful discussion that might be needed and indeed mutually wanted.

I don't expect an awful lot of upvotes for this, but it is my two cents based on what I've seen and read over the webs, and by that I stand.

Greetings, Mike.

 

Because there are trains aligned to the same route, which leads to red signals for all trains. Its the last one of the Cabcar Services

 

So presumably you don't own any of these as you of course wouldn't purchase anything you felt you were being "overcharged" for! How much do you think a route should be?

I don''t feel overcharged, the enjoyment and time spent on TSW in recent months has more than made up for the money spent in my opinion.

Also using phrases like "shadiest companies" just sounds like a rant and doesn't do you or your argument any justice or credence!

 

If the routes had right sound quality, safety systems and etc the routes are at a good price. Though with all the current bugs I think they should be cheaper until they get lighting, sound, and etc fixed. But like you said I don't find the routes too overcharged.

 

I agree with both londonmidland and thearkerportian - londonmidland alone has provided brilliant addons for GWE. I thought he'd found a loop hole in the system and made working countdown displays but still, if londonmidland can do that why can't DTG? the display is clearly spot on and even MCGermanyFan with his RSN DB displays on platforms. It can be done but again why not DTG?

UE4 is a proven workhorse, the only drawback is it's not easy to code an editor for third party use due to something or the other. This is why with Microsoft returning to Flight Simulation I wonder if they've seen the latest ''We cant edit this due to etc etc etc'' and decided to enter the market again with a can do approach?

I may be spitballing here, but why would Microsoft enter a market of simulation already doing well, well, maybe for the reasons I stated above. ETS2, OMSI are heavily kept alive due to modding support, although SCS are a lot better at community engagement, even listening to modders and implementing game code from modders.

TSW is grand, it's amazing. And I get eager because Id like to see some of what we have already in a better working condition; an editor for the users as I will even take a stab at creating thanks to its a lot more user friendly approach.

If anyone follows TML we now have realistic rain effects on vehicles and on streets, plus the entire country of Germany, albeit to a smaller scale, why can't we have that for TSW? I put it down to laziness and we can't be bothered which if you're from the UK would be familiar with.

 

It’s nothing to do with laziness. Most of it has to do with time.

 

What’s wrong with the cabcar?

 

So in 2 years they didn't have "time" to fix it.

 

Fixing things take a lot of time, then it has to go through a lot of testing.

 

Regardless of what you think DTG is not this perfect image you want to imagine. They have many flaws in their games and company and laziness is one of them.

 

They are not lazy. They are a business and they have to make money.

 

I don't think anyone would argue they are perfect, and we all have quibbles with them about something which isn't right or something we think could have been done differently or better. However, some people on here seem to want to make them out to be some kind of demon company forcing people to purchase train-sim add-ons from them!

You say they are lazy, do you have any experience of running a company producing software or games? Do you have any idea of how much staff/time/resources go into any aspect of producing a simulator? I think some think they are a charity whereas they are a business which salaries to pay!

Because, I don't!

Do you really honestly and truly think they are sitting in their offices saying "we can't be bothered to fix this"?

It isn't like they haven't fixed fixed bugs, there have been many bug fixes, people just like to forget about that.

Unless I am using a different sim I don't recognise TSW being nearly as bad as I read on here and I am quite a puritan when it comes to wanting to experience a realistic as far as possible trainsim experience. It is certainly not perfect and I have complained about things before but some coming on here would think they are the worse company on earth!

 

I don’t mean to be funny but comments like that and people will just make advantage of you. I don’t know how or why you constantly defend DTG or say their products are perfect and don’t have any problems with them.

I certainly am not convinced this is the best they can do, and with using a really advanced engine, they are just scratching the surface.

Seriously, you need to stop pussyfooting around them and accept that they aren’t perfect or the best company ever. Most, if not everyone, that owns TSW would like to see improvements, but comments that you constantly make certainly don’t help this situation.

 

Well with emotive language like that my earlier point stands. You sound exactly like you are mindlessly ranting, you only concentrate on the bad points, what happened to balance! If it is really that bad why are you "playing" it at all, if I thought it was that bad I would have given up on it a long time ago!

 

Well maybe like many others he gets far more enjoyment out of it than bad feelings. If someone enjoys the product and gets plenty of use out of it then it is entirely their choice if they feel it is value for money or not and what they spend their money on.

Everyone would like to see improvements but it doesn't mean the sim isn't usable or enjoyable as it is so I don't see why we can't proclaim our enjoyment of it as much as you are able to slate it!

 

Because there is no alternative right now in the market for a good graphics train simulator. TS19, Run8, and Trainz are the only alternatives, and they all look dated. We need Microsoft's Flight simulator to smash records when it comes out, and maybe then they can invest again in their Simulation games department. For now, TSW visually stomps it's competitors (and is the only console train simulator right now, so they have that market on lockdown), and this causes complacency, which is why the Amtrak switcher released in that state. There is no financial incentive for them to do thorough bug checking, which is why you have platform clipping, and NEC cab signalling still broken to this day, because they are aware they are the only ones going strong in the train simulation market and have complete control of it right now.

 

If you could please send me a private message describing the issue then I will have a look at it. Thanks.

 

How does it make any sense to go on the company forums and call the developers lazy, claim they are screwing customers over, and compare them to North Korea? What's the endgame? Are they supposed to feel bad and go work somewhere else? Are they supposed to start posting here and let you abuse them personally? Are they supposed to hire you on to put all your great ideas into action?

No employee of a company will ever engage with customers who talk like that. This sort of behavior is just going to further reduce the non-communication that many people have complained about. The one person who has to read this stuff is Dmitri. What's he supposed to do, go to the morning staff meeting and tell the developers that the people who buy their products think they are incompetent and lazy?

Of course they want the product to be better. That's how the company makes more money and they keep their jobs. If you want to help them fix the product, you have to give well-reasoned input and act in a professional manner. No one is going to listen to attacks and arbitrary overblown complaints.

 

Agree

 

Very well stated.

Reading this thread, and being someone who has enjoyed the TS platform for many years now, this is my perspective.

Management wants to make money, we want content, devs want time. The happy medium would be content that sells thousands of copies, runs relatively well, meets the users expectations, and is delivered in a timely manner. The truth is that isn't going to happen, and something gets shortchanged. Usually it's quality and bug fixing. The mentality that a patch can be released allows for more buggy content because "we can always fix it later" or "put it on the list". Lets look at routes that Rapid Transit and the Northeast Corridor. The signaling systems were broken on both routes during initial release, and for NEC, it still is. The Metroliner Cab Car was released without a working in-cab signaling system because DTG knew it wouldn't work right and the schedule would be unachievable. Instead of fixing the system, a feature got removed. Sad. The route is nice, but when features don't work, specifically when we use the term "realism" with the content, it feels cheated.

We should challenge DTG and speak our minds with constructive criticism but also with our wallets. If we keep buying content, they won't have a reason to change their ways. The devs would love to create better content, but it's not their fault entirely, it's the people at the top who determine a lot of that. It taken a community uproar to get them to fix Rapid Transit, but those lessons didn't convert to NEC.

Money talks. We should be critical, but wisely.

 

Is that a general consensus or a personal view and from what perspective are you basing that all-encompassing comment on?

You say that you love Trainz and have been playing that for a long time but TSW is far better in terms of realism and physics, hands down. It still has room for improvement but as a train driving sim, the driving certainly doesn't "suck".

 

Well I wonder if Microsoft Train Simulator will return. Microsoft Flight Simulator has. If Microsoft Train Simulator is made remade I wonder how it will affect TSW.

 

They won't. Lack of demand unlike a next gen flight sim

 

Oops that was supposed to be I wonder if it will return. Looks like my spelling passed my brain lol.

 

I don't understand how you can say this, when Dovetail is making bank doing this along with Trainz and Run8. Clearly there is a market for these types of games, otherwise Dovetail wouldn't continue churning DLC after DLC and would just fold, or the other two competitors would have shut down already. Plus, they even decided to spend development time making a console version of this game.


I predict if the Flight simulator does well, they will begin to look into Train Simulation.