Forum Moderation

There have been some changes to forums moderation (including forcing new accounts to have their posts moderated, which has its upsides and downsides).

The moderators do a great job here, but since they don't seem to work officially on weekends, we sometimes see a little bit of trouble starting on Friday evenings. The forums is particularly vulnerable to malicious activity at this time (such as links to malware).

With regard to the most recent issue, I assume DTG had a meeting which allowed them to orchestrate a clean up. (Having different staff members doing different things out of an attempt to silence people as quickly as possible is never going to be as good as making a plan together and then acting on it).

It is clear that we need some form of moderation on weekends, including a means of planning a course of action if something like this happens again. Certainly, if we had weekend moderation, half of the content we saw would never have reached the forums.

My question (as someone with little experience of moderators in general) is why can't DTG hire a couple of people to work weekends part-time (so they rotate which weekends they work on).

Is it a case of training them?
Is it just money?
Am I overreacting, and we can carry on like we are now, where all issues can be sorted out on Monday?

 

We need forum moderation because of a leak? This whole thread is an overreaction. The leak of two trains is not the end of the world.

The community managers have lives just like the rest of us so it is hardly surprising that they can't be on here 24/7. Also, what malicious activity are you referring to happens on the weekends? I haven't seen anything on this forum that is malicious or intends to harm other people

 

Thank you. I do need a reality check sometimes.

We haven't seen any malicious activity yet, but I thought it could happen.

 

A leak of confidential information (under an NDA) is incredibly serious.

The thread was harmless in all regards other than amplifying the leak - but it does obviously pose a big issue for DTG.

 

It's a forum from a company. Don't be fooled by marketing calling it a community. For a forum with no moderation in the weekend I must actually congratulate the team as I never see any malicious activity on the forum during the weekend. It used to be different when a lot of spam appeared on the forum. But calling a leak "malicious activity" is way overblown. We don't work for DTG, if DTG can't keep their secrets behind sealed doors don't start blaming the "community". This is a DTG mishap and not some "malicious activity".

 

There are rules for a reason, and the reaction to the leak is fully warranted. It was confidential information no matter how minor some people perceive it... You can not have people unofficially leaking content, and it should be treated as just the same as any other game in the gaming industry. I hope DT successfully prosecute or implement a just punishment for those involved just like any other company would.

In terms of moderation at weekends, DT could use a 'Special Constable' type of idea, where trusted forum members could volunteer and could be granted moderation powers at the weekend whilst full time moderators are off?

 

Leaving aside the unforgiveable breach of trust by beta member(s) regarding WCML, nevertheless there have been some occasions where a bit of weekend moderation wouldn't go amiss. Whether that's a bit of keyboard bickering breaking out between two members with opposing views, or general spam it can be annoying waiting until Monday morning as it seems only nominated DTG staff (not even Matt) can carry out moderation. The irony is, DTG were noted as being active during the period when the breach was in full public view, but did nothing - didn't even post a cease and desist message to take the heat out of things. It was almost as if they were too shocked or simply didn't have a contingency plan to deal with the eventuality.

Introducing moderated posting for new members is a smart move and should have been done years ago, should stop the occasional incursion of advertising or clickbait to a virus site which occasionally appear.

 

Thank you, after a think, I agree with you.

Oh no, I didn't mean the leak was malicious activity. I was referring to something like malware. I think there was an attempt at spreading malware previously, but that was during the working week, so was dealt with efficiently. I should have made myself clear, and will edit my post accordingly.

The 'Special Constable' idea seems interesting, and is closer to the discussion I was hoping we would have. I have some questions:

How do we gauge trust?
What is to say that the random strangers on the internet suddenly become overwhelmed by power? I know I would get carried away.

 

So in theory, anyone who volunteered would have to be very established forum members with a track record of obeying forum rules and being respectful. They would then go through whatever process DT have for moderators on the forums. (By being volunteer/part time moderators this would only grant them moderating powers and no more then that, and only at weekends).

 

You must of missed when the forums got swarmed with ad bots back in March 2023.

Some spam bots still filter in on the TSC side of the forum from time to time.

 

I see! I like this idea a lot! It may be difficult to manage, but I believe this is how YouTube chat moderators are chosen, so it could work!

 

Christ we don’t need any more mini mods

 

I can not think of a much worse idea than that.

 

I agree. We have enough members attempting to moderate the forums as it is. We certainly don't need a bunch of "trusties " lording it over the rest of us.

 

I guarantee that if this kind of role was a thing it would exclusively fall into the hands of users like 390001.

 

It'd be much better having someone (even if it's one of us) having official authority rather than someone who decides to take it upon themselves.

 

DTG will be fine. Players should not get worked up just because two trains were leaked. There are more important and worse things that have happened in the world than two virtual trains getting leaked.

 

I respect others disagreeing with me, but it was just an idea however. But if there are any other ideas then I'd like to hear them (sincerely, not sarcastically as this can come across as such when writing a message). I still don't think it's necessarily a bad idea, and would not change the dynamic of the forum, and would be run by the rules normal moderators go by and not some stranger on a power trip...

 

They’ve revoked beta testers access to content, these were their most trusted community members.

DTG doesn’t even trust this community enough to announce content to us, they aren’t giving out moderator privileges. Besides, the people who go for that sort of thing are usually the worst people for it.

In any case, with new members needing post approval & big leaks only likely to happen with big content announcements, not much else goes on other than the odd spat. Any other established trouble makers likely have their names & reputation for antics known, so any action needed there can happen before a weekend.

The moderation in general is as bad on a weekday as it is a weekend & it’s the same for any online community.

 

I suggest that DTG leave things as is. Community managers can't be here 24/7 and the forum is fine as is for the most part.

 

You might want to actually look at what an NDA is and what the consequences of breaching one are, before going around saying everything is fine.

It doesn't matter what was leaked, or who leaked it, it's against the law to do so.

 

I know what an NDA is. But you know what I also know? it's not the end of the world. Are DTG going to go out of business? No. Are they going to lose money? Heck, the leak may have just made people more interested in getting the WCML given the amount of discussion and excitement that was in that thread. There is literally zero reason to be concerned about a leak of a virtual train in a franchise that has no real competition.

 

Considering DTG's entire business is TSW (don't lie to yourselves Dovetail - we all know CTS/Roblox aren't doing anything!) I would suggest it is quite a big deal.

Ignoring the legal ramifications for the perpetrator - it obviously throws a curveball for Dovetail's preparation for the Dovetail Direct; it loses their control over the marketing and build up to it and it is an unauthorised reveal of content. Hence why it's a "leak".

Yes, bigger things have happened. But that's just not relevant.

 

Well in terms of Dovetail Direct, that's Dovetail's problem, not ours. TSW 3 and 4 was leaked and the official announcements went by fine. Nothing bad happened to DTG or TSW because of that and nothing bad will happen when the core update and routes are eventually announced. There are worse things to get worked over than this

 

You can argue all you want, but at the end of the day, it shouldn't have happened no matter what.

The trust bestowed upon the leaker shouldn't have been broken, the NDA they abided by shouldn't have been broken.

 

Quite simply, they signed a legal document saying they wouldn't leak. They then leaked. Irrespective of your opinions on how DTG will fare from it, it shouldn't have happened, and isn't justifiable in the slightest. Testing a train game isn't a valid reason for subjecting someone to a full background check, CRB included, so the onus is firmly on the shoulders of the leaker.

 

At the end of the day, it is what it is. It's not like it's the first time something from DTG got leaked. No point in getting worked up over it

 

Yes, hence why Dovetail have decided to deal with it on the Dovetail forum.
This is their space, not ours.

 

It's been intentionally leaked with the intent of showing off confidential information - a far step from accidentally opening teams on a stream or the epic database doing it's job - that's the issue.

 

TSW 4 was leaked by a French gaming article and nothing bad happened to that company as far as I am aware. Also so what if two trains were leaked? Why should a player get worked up about it? I just see no reason to do so. If anything, the leak generated alot of excitement and hype from what I've read. Calling for more moderation all because of a leak just seems a bit over the top and uncessary

 

Just accept it.

DTG did nothing wrong. The person who leaked confidential information did. I'm honestly quite shocked you think it's OK to break a law as serious as this.

Again, you can argue all you want, but it shouldn't have happened. Doesn't matter if no one was harmed.

That's as far as this discussion needs to go.

 

The thing is, quite simply, a NDA is a legal agreement, regardless of the context of it, it is a legal document signed by two parties, and breaching it has consequences. Those are just the facts no matter what side of the argument you are on...

 

Accept what exactly? I'm just saying that there is no reason to get worked up because somebody decided to leak two trains. I never said DTG did anything wrong

 

Accept that a legal agreement between two parties was broken and that it shouldn't have happened.

Have a good day.

 

I guess you don't know how to read. All I basically said is that there is no reason for players to get worked up about all this. I never said DTG was at fault eiter

 

Have a good day.

 

in my opion this should have happend ages ago didnt tsw2 get leaked this way am glad some action is finally beening taken

 

Nor is there a reason to get worked up over people explaining repeatedly that a legally binding document has consequences for breaching it, opinions on it or not, but anyway.

 

I think I made a mistake. I'm sorry...

 

Nah, you're fine.

 

No you didn't You just opened a debate and nothing else. Nothing rude or mean

 

The leak may not have big consequences to us, the spectators, but a broken NDA is a very big deal for any business, and the consequences of non-enforcement should be obvious. They have to do their very best to find the perp and take the legal boots to him.

Weekend moderation may not be as visible, but that doesn't mean nobody's having a look. I'd guess that the bar of involvement is just higher.

 

I mean some criminals use NDA's to conceal or cover up some crimes.......

But in any case, I don't fully agree with the OP on this and this seems to be a kneejerk reation to the leak. Maybe the reason why weekend moderators aren't a thing is because it's not possible. Obviously moderators can't be here all the time, but I think the forums are moderated fine and issues are dealt with accordingly so I don't think there needs to be more moderation. This was a partial mishap by DTG. It's pointless to get frustrated by the fact that it was leaked in the first place. I don't think this will affect DTG. We don't know the other routes that will come with TSW 5 and the Dovetail Direct stream was already filmed prior to the leak.

I guess the only positive is that it appeared to have generated some excitement before it was taken down.

 

I haven't but anyways....

 

I think the NDA comments have been clearly explained and done to death now, the OP wanted a discussion around forum moderation ideas going forward...

 

I get the feeling that this thread was just an unnecessary overreaction.

 

I hope that there are no major changes in forum moderation policy. The free flow of ideas and opinions is what makes the forum such an interesting and vibrant experience. If one or two people get into a pissing contest or childish bickering occasionally, it shouldn't spoil it for the rest of us.

The NDA breaches were not born in the forum and really have nothing to do with us. Let DTG deal with the problem in their own way.

Moderating initial posts by new members is a smart move. After all it used to be the standard practice.

DTG has its critics and detractors but they are balanced out by its apologists and ardent defenders.

There are far worse forums than this and, in the end, we all share a common interest in all things trains and that's what ultimately shines through.

We're fine. Let it be.

 

I've been on another railway forum, since mid 2009. The forum is question started off good, but become overly moderated to the point of even the slightest comment outside of the discussion would be deleted and a member would be given 'infraction' points, and it got so ridiculous that I hardly post anymore...

This forum has nice balance, and allows discussions to take place. It it good for not being 'overly' moderated and I'd like to keep it that way. Although, saying that, I don't want it to go in the opposite direction and like the wild west! So it's refreshing to see the changes to the rules since the leak aren't to harsh.

 

So much irony to there being more petty bickering in this thread than I've seen in a long time on the forums.