a discussion that a saw recently that i thought was worthy of being on here, why is there such an imbalance of third rail/non third rail routes in tsw? given that dtg are based in the south of the uk which is where third rail is predominantly used, why are only 5 of the 21 uk routes in tsw third rail? makes me wonder why whenever a suggestion for a route in the south is made, the main response is ‘we need more northern routes’ when in fact the last fully new third rail route in tsw was bml
We definitely need more 3rd rail routes. They don't even have to be modern; third rail has been around since before even BR days.
I don’t think you can just split routes by third rail vs not third rail. There are so many other factors that distinguish one route from another that just third rail or not isn’t a good way to divide them. You could split it three ways, non-electrified, third rail, overhead power, but even that doesn’t define what a route is. Where DTG are based has no effect on what gets made and rightly so. More third rail routes will come to TSW though so no need to worry.
Yes, and wouldn't it be nice to have some older 3rd rail routes and trains, perhaps some slam-door BR. Maybe a period BML with the " Brighton Belle " Pullman and a Class 33 Crompton thrown in.
It must be 2021 again. The "move away from 3rd rail" thing was because the Southeast had an oversaturation of UK Routes - which, as a very limited region in terms of route types - it is. The North has 3rd Rail (Merseyrail), AC Electric and Diesel, Scotland, the West, Wales, The Midlands, Anglia all have the latter two, the Southwest has diesel and 3rd Rail. The Southeast is almost entirely electrified with 3rd Rail, save a handful of diesel branches. Of course, that's not all to a route. Maybe there's more operators... Nope, all Southern/SE... Maybe more trains? Well, SE's only missing trains are a 707, 466 and 379... all very similar experiences to what we have. Southern the 171 - which could be fun - that's it. So where do they run? The Oxted line (on one branch) and the Marshlink Line. Okay, the Marshlink Line could come with an extended ECW to Ashford via Hastings, the 171 being a loco DLC? There's one option. Of course, you could bring back the old BREL stock, but you can't go too far otherwise licensing can become an issue. Now let's look at the rest of the country... Okay maybe not there's far too much to run through. There's a million different types of experiences yet to feature in TSW. The North only has one modern route and three BR routes. The North has a variety of different routes. If we want a third-rail route - go for MerseyRail. Not strictly new but it's a new area, a metro (something TSW to many lacks) / commuter line - and if we want a southern route - find something interesting. Not more of the same. P.S. - We need do more northern routes, yes.
As Stujoy said, splitting by purely third rail is a naff point really. As is basing route choice on DTG’s base. Thirdrail/Southern routes got a bashing because for a while it was all DTG was focused on for modern day UK content. You could say that same issue is currently happening with DTGs onslaught of modern one handle electrics. trainsimplayer makes a good point also, less than half of the UK network is electrified & it’s only around 1/3 of that which is third rail, there is really very little variety to be had, especially when DTG just point blank refuse to back in time any further than 2020 when it comes to the UK.
Yes, this is the norm for TSW, a lot of addons in the same vein were released one after another followed by a long draught. For British content, there was the heritage/historic era - WSR, NTP, BR cargo pack, TVL. This was followed by a huge outcry "Hey, make more modern stuff!". And so DTG didn't touch BR Blue era since the anachronistic Diesel Legends addon. Then we got flooded with "South of London" 3rd rail electric routes, so there was a huge outcry "Hey, make more overhead electrics!" And so now we are getting flooded with modern overhead electric routes...
DTG can only operate if they produce what they feel (and what their market research yields) will sell the most. It is a business, not a freeware developer with time on their hands and passion, unrestricted by deadlines and having to pay their employees well enough so they stay. Don't overestimate the profitability of a niche product that train simming is. Just like cars, modern trains are built using shared parts and systems, and are very similar now, and easier to make as the lovely obscure old locos, thus more profitable. For me, train simming mostly means reviving the old days, seeing and operating stuff that has disappeared in real life. But many players want to play what they are used to in real life. TSC's content development and DLC output was much faster than TSW's (of course resulting in a lot of subpar DLC, but most was fixed and enhanced by the community), so it served anyone's preferences. In TSW, everyone's awaiting the next DLC. That's not happening over on the TSC forums. For everyone there's enough different DLC and freeware to choose from, so there's no speculation threads over there.
I know DT were 'taking a break' from third rail routes because of people complaining about to many Southern Region routes... I'd like to see the existing London to Brighton given a much needed remaster as it'll always be my favourite. I'd also like to see a 'South Eastern Commuter' type route that would run from Charing Cross to Hastings, the route would either be set in the modern day an utilising the existing 375 and 465 stock. Or, a route set around 1989/1990 with CEP, VEP, and EPB stock... Probably to much to ask though! Problem is you couldn't just have one slamdoor type unit as the South Eastern Division had a a variety of VEPs, CEPs, CIGs and EPBs back then!
You state that only a quarter of UK routes are 3rd rail and that seems small yet less than a quarter of the UK has 3rd rail. In terms of mileage there may be more 3rd rail due to the high density nature of commuter routes but geographically it is only a small portion of the UK with third rail.
I have no objection to further southern England routes providing they are different to what we already have. Specifically era and maybe some of the diesel worked lines, especially Thumpers and Hastings Units or Class 33 loco hauled. Something south western is frequently asked for, so give us Bournemouth to Weymouth with 33/1’s and TC units (plus the Boat Trains to the Quay), or inner area something like Waterloo to Windsor, with or without the Whitton circle, using SUB’s and EPB’s.
The route i would love to see is southampton - weymouth in 1987 with REPs and tcs working southampton - bournemouth and then a 33/1 takes over with the tc to Weymouth and then uses push-pull to get back. And the route is around 62 miles so possible.
Most definitely. If they can do two new trains for a certain route we cannot mention, Southampton to Weymouth would require the 4REP and 4TC with a rebuild of the existing 33/0 for push pull 33/1. A 4VEP or 4 CIG could follow at a later date and could layer in as a historical layer on BML, SEHS and ECW. Class 47 already in game for the inter regional services which were to/from Poole at that point, except on Summer Saturdays when some ran through to Weymouth. At a pinch, the MetCam DMU can do AI from Weymouth to Dorchester for the Westbury line. Crying out to be made.
Very good point mate, if they can make two trains for the route that must not be mentioned that are quite different i see no reason why they wouldn’t be able to give us a tc which is just mk1s with no buffers and two cabs and a rep which is the same just it powers. And of course the crompton will need a rebuild. But this will never happen because REPs had buffets, anything for dtg to avoid a buffet for you.
True, but if they made these it would basically be a mk1 buffet and then they might have to use them on other routes in the mk1 version not a REP. And REPS had seats that you could move around that weren’t fixed to the floor which would be hard to replicate.
The problem was that people got bored of electrostars somehow so dtg moved away from the south forgetting about desiro for south western region, slam door and steam routes.
Agree with this sentiment! It felt like a lot of the noise was conflating “too many electrostars” with southern region third rail Not doing anything out of Waterloo is a pity, but I don’t think they were successful in getting the SWR license, which was why we got the close approximation livery on IOW. would love some slam door southern region… even as a loco dlc and alt timetable for BMLin its current era
Not particularly knowledgeable in the SW electric discussion here, but the 442, in NSE livery, is surely in with a shout - they look sleek, class and those corner windows in the cab are iconic. Can’t see it happening unless there was a longer-than-BML intercity route somewhere between Weymouth, Poole, Bournemouth, Southampton and Winchester, or along the Woking to Portsmouth line (if they even went there!)
That's actually a very good point. The South Western Division seems to be the only part of the SR left out in TSW... A Portsmouth Direct Line would be a good suggestion. Although I'd set it around 1990, shortly after the REPs were withdrawn, and 442s were new in service. Have a 455, and a CEP thrown in... Lovely jubbly! Although this is a problem with SR stuff which is frustrating, you couldn't just have a single item of rolling stock like seems to be the norm when releasing a new route. The SR had several Mk1 EMUs (CIGs, CEPs, EPBs, 455s) so to only include one of those would leave it feeling a bit desolate... One can hope though...
South west trains, network southeast, br blue BR, Southern (steam) for operator's for a southwestern route
Most probable DTG can get access to South West Trains as a license, which I believe is in a similar situation to the now defunct East Midlands Trains along with SWT content existing on TSC. We have the Desiro family in-game now, so making a Class 450 or even a Class 444 seems quite reasonable. Something like the western portion of the West Coastway line from Southampton to Portsmouth with Havant and maybe Eastleigh as spurs, as small SWT network would be quite good. There would be layers for the Class 166, 313, 377 as well as freight around Southampton docks. Lots of service variety and some nice scenery with lots of landmarks to spot!
