One reason why model railways have become so much more expensive than they used to be is not inflation alone or rising material costs, but rather that so much microtechnology is now built in. Almost every model is equipped with circuit boards that have slots for digital decoders. So fully digitalized models are almost twice as expensive as basic models without sound or digital decoders. You could also call this technical progress: I can still remember how my grandfather completely wired up the model railway system and an extra circuit had to be laid for each signal or switch. Thanks to digital technology, you only need one electrical connection to the rail network and the entire system is controlled by just one control device or even just by your smartphone, as the built-in control chips accept commands remotely and without a tangled mess of wires anymore. All the new technology, control chips and decoders, have their price, because microelectronics and semiconductors are made from rare earths that have to be imported and processed. The car industry also regularly ensures that there is a worldwide chip shortage, because almost every new car is also a driving computer. Back to the topic: releasing an expert model and doing more than usual on the simulation side to show what is possible is of course a new approach. It's clear that the most recently released train DLCs were usually between €16 and €18 and that the doubling of the price at route level initially caused an outcry. However, there are also regular discount events that push the prices down again, but for control car lovers, August 8th will be a long-awaited day. For Creators Club, there are actually only 3 useful control car livery variants: Interregio blue, old IC red, cream and a 50 years Intercity special edition. From my side: I will not completely repaint the Expert DB 101 again, as I have other things to do and it's very time-consuming. Also, the basic version, for which I think I have uploaded 4 liveries, is still a very good model.
You have to remember that DTG supplies all of the tools and assistance to produce said content as well, on what is essentially their platform, as well as of course, publishing the content on all platforms, something that I found out was always much easier said than done. They certainly have done more than Steam has done for developers all around. It's kind of a developer/publisher situation, and I don't think that's really abnormal here, or that many people within are unhappy about this. DTG gets more content, TSG gets to do the things they want to do. I also heard that a direct sell from another developer for a same product, so say third parties making content entirely without DTG, is something that the console platforms do not allow either.
Without DTG you can publish on consoles. Also the 101 and coaches is still from DTG, would be a fun lawsuit trying to sell their model. Its fun to speculate I guess but at the end of the day we dont know how big the cut is that third party's get. Just publishing on console alone would probably make up for any loss due to cuts. Not sure where you get this idea from that DTG is some dictator over their third parties. TSG seems happy with it from what I can see
As noted previously, they are exercising the iron control they probably regret not imposing on RS/RW/TSC, though in the beginning it was mooted where routes were concerned RSDL as it was then wanted a flat fee of £1000 for any payware route produced with the tools. And MS probably regretted even more not keeping a tighter rein on use of the MSTS editors and the royalties they lost from all the commercial titles that were published.
Expert locos have existed since tsc and there's flight sim. There's no issue with those but it's a big issue with tsw?
Well we already went into this where Flight Sim is concerned. I probably have had several 100 hours out of the Level D 767 which I initially bought for FS9 then later got the upgrade price for FSX. It was certainly unlike any other 767 available and was endorsed by a real life Senior Captain for one of the US airlines who wrote a series of articles on Flight Sim dot com comparing a simulated flight vs. the real thing. In all honesty I doubt any train sim “expert” add on is going to achieve that level of popularity. And as regards further study level aircraft, I have actually declined to buy some PMDG add ons at the prices they ask. Also worth noting exactly the same debates occur over on the flight sim forums about whether these products actually represent value for money. On the one hand, the goggle eyed flyboys who will hand over any amount of money, versus those whose feet are more firmly on the ground and a bit of financial savvy.
Looking at the preview stream this all looks very interesting but I can't help the feeling they should have released this in 2 add ons. One add-on as the train itself and the second add-on to enable the Expert features. Pricing could have been a bit lower on the 101 and way higher to enable the Expert level.
If Microsoft can allow 3rd party MSFS content to be sold outside the game’s marketplace, then so can DTG. They choose to force 3rd parties to publish through them by neutering the TSW public editor. Publishing through DTG means also paying specific platform charges (30% for Steam). DTG are here to make money, but this monopolistic approach does stifle creativity for the home content creator.
They still might. Could always release the cab car as a £12.99 DLC on its own, or as a bundle with a German route remaster.
3 to 4 months before a small on PlayStation. Probably 2 months on pc as dtg have a say. Xbox probably 5 months later
This will be unpopular but as a player and not a creator, I'm gonna go ahead and say thank you to DTG for this! You know what i don't have to do when i buy a piece of TSW content? Check for 37 different dependencies scattered around 6 different sketchy websites like i would for TSC. I don't have to worry about , "oh, sorry you can't use that trainset anymore because Bob is beefing with Jimmy and decided to pull the wagon it needs from sale". No, thanks, don't miss it! Alao, all non-modded content is currently available on consoles, and i think that's important imo.
I think £30 is about right taking into account inflation and the hours or research and dev along with production costs that have gone into making this DLC a reality. The manual alone is 100 pages, this is a very VERY detailed and likely almost a 1:1 simulation level DLC and well beyond what is usually offered.
Controversial is putting your DLC behind a paywall. A minor point, but your first point is largely irrelevant to the issue of voicing displeasure. I could equally say if you dont like my post, dont respond to it. Ill regard your reply as an attempt to silence dissent. I dont mind, as your opinion isnt at all important to me While you grit your teeth and start hammering at your keyboard, enjoy a nice picture of a class 47 and a glass of champagne
99% of British and American people couldn't point to Germany on a world map. They are not going to buy German DLC if it means having to translate and/or read a manual.
Thank god I'm a 1% man then and knows what a massive country like Germany looks like, tho my god the intelligence levels are going to take a huge hit in both countries if we don't get that 1% figure up a bit higher......
The problem there is, if the expert features are there to be enabled, then DTG has already spent the money to develop them and is taking a loss on every one that's not enabled. Which is also the problem people are ignoring when they say these features should have been included in the standard 101; if they were, then the standard 101 would have been a higher price due to that increased development.
A rather skewed view… Then it’s not 99% of the British and American population playing train games, but those that are I suspect have an IQ and general knowledge slightly above the norm (not sure about the former in my case, though) and if they’ve been around these games for any length of time cannot be unaware of the existence of German railway products. And there’s a world of difference between understanding a few basic phrases as a tourist, to a complex simulated technical conversation (whether text based or spoken dialogue) in a game. Presumably TSG and DTG haven’t heard of subtitles, something TV shows and movies have employed ever since, oh the first foreign language programmes and films started being screened outside their native countries.
Personally I've no problem with the pricing- you get two models, the 101 and the IC cab car (which also sounds like it is high fidelity too). I was just looking at the DCS World pricing and the study model of the F14 Tomcat will run you a fat $108 cdn. I'm thinking Maik et al's hard work is being undervalued by DTG. *shrugs*
Here's my take on current pricing. If I want it then I'll pay for it, if I don't want it I won't pay for it, if I kinda want it then there's always the sales. Sometimes I don't even want it but if it's 3.99 in the sale I want it. If you don't think it's worth the money then you still have a choice not to buy it.
I have a soft spot for the old Yugoslavian narrow gauge. I bet not many people could track the old line from Gostivar to Ohrid in what is now Macedonia. I did actually peg it all out in Google Earth when at one time thinking I could reproduce all or part of it in TSC, but unfortuantely lost the kml file in my big laptop crash last year.
Really? Do you have statistics to prove that or did you just pick a figure out of the air, like many statistics produced on this forum?
I‘ve heard that 99% or people believe that if they make up a statistic and post it on the internet, it automatically becomes true.
Yes we are in TSW 4 now, the game has been out since 2017. You think that most people here haven't lost their patience with this company. They did the same stuff in the past. TSG has a relatively good track record, but the price for what you get is not justified at least to me. The game has been out for way to long for this functionality to be branded as "new" when the natural evolution of the game has outpaced the feature within it. While I will say yes the routes and trains have gotten better and give the credit where it's due, that's not to excuse the reasons/factors that went into thinking this was a good idea. I like having more functionality and features, but this is way too late and too expensive for this. Just imagine it took DTG 3 years to get fully working PIS and they still use the boring overused UK PIS on American routes (Being American this is just lazy) But I understand this is TSG we are talking about. Ideally this should have been sold with all this functionality from the start. Remember we are on the 4th game here and about to be on the 5th game as well. These things need to be addressed. People need to get out of the dirt and see what is actually going on here. Good hard work is rewarding and while I praise everyone for working on this passion, that does not excuse criticisms and the various problems that exist with this.
I think if most people here had lost patience with DTG.....we/they wouldn't bother posting here, it would be baffling if they were. If I had lost patience with them I would uninstall TSW and concentrate on another hobby and certainly not bother with the drama of the forums. The sim isn't perfect, DTG isn't perfect, there are some things they have done with baffle and annoy me. However I enjoy the sim, it is getting better in my opinion and bring on the fifth game/sim if it means continuing enjoyable routes and experiences. I don't need to get out of any "dirt", whilst I am enjoying the sim I can forgive its vagaries and annoyances.
Brevity is the sister of talent: Do you want an advanced locomotive for a large amount? Buy Don't want an advanced locomotive at a high price? Don't buy YOUNO ONE IS FORCED TO BUY THIS ADD-ON!
I have moved on haha. I am just chilling here now. I lost my peak with DTG since 2021-22 at the end of the TSW 2 era. Until something changes well I will not support and have not supported this greedy company since 2021 nor the partners either unless things change. You are so right, there are much better hobbies out there other than this, and I am happy you like TSW the way it is. I don't. I will always love trains but not like this in this way especially with this game
Under my layout is like a spaghetti of wires and thats DCC, it now has two DCC sources one for trains and one for Points and eventually signals which are linked to a PC. Its over engineered for its size maybe but a friend who is a tech wizard wants to test some of his concepts. I agree that the technology makes things more diffcult but to have TSW routes that now often come in sub 100 miles which for high speed trains is short because its hard to do does get difficult to digest nonetheless when the price keeps going up.
The other very relevant point about model railway equipment vs a PC train game, is that $300 locomotive may well end up being a collectible. It has an ongoing intrinsic real value and if a few years down the road you decide you no longer want it, you can probably sell it and recoup most of your initial outlay, if not more should values have increased and it's in tip top working order. You can't do that with a digital train - in fact if you go over the 2 hour window on Steam you can't even get your money back if faults or bugs subsequently come to light and DTG or TSG don't bother fixing them (like the broken G6 Journey scenario).
Well, I don't know about the British, but about 16% of Americans have German ancestry. I'm sure most of them know where Germany is, including my wife who is first generation German and instantly identified Germany on the world map we have on the study wall. She also speaks the language though I don't myself. What does " abhauen " mean. She often says that to me.
I'd imagine most British people's knowledge of Germany (including mine) comes more from the proximity, economic links, past historical events and competition rather than ancestry, though I am sure if you go back far enough (centuries not decades ) there may be more people with links. An interesting topic, though perhaps not one for right here, right now!
I'm pretty sure most British and Americans know where Germany is. Since both were heavily involed in WW2 against Germany and it is taught in history classes. And both supported West Germany during the cold war
Technically most Britons are all of German ancestry if you go way way back But from wikipedia... "Germans in the United Kingdom form one of the largest minority groups in the country. Today, there are many Germans living in the United Kingdom, and many Britons or German British (German: Deutsch-Briten) have German ancestry, including the British royal family. While those born in Germany constitute one of the UK's largest foreign-born groups, many are British nationals, rather than German nationals, who were born in Germany to British military personnel based there." So more than you think
This were the reason for my if you go back far enough it will be more, but even then I assume you are referring to the Germanic links, which include many more countries other than Germany. A difference must be made between Germany and Germanic ancestry, as they are not the same. Regarding the last bit, German born people still make up a very small amount of the population (approx 0.4% according to the same Wiki source as you) but even including people such as the Royals it will still be nowhere near the 16% of the US. If I were to have put a figure on it when I made my initial post I would have said about 5% have German ancestry, so not more than I thought at all, again ignoring Germanic links as these include the likes of Denmark and Norway. Like I say interesting topic to discus but not the right place.
Going back even further to the post-Roman - pre-Norman period, the original “Britons” (Celts) are today’s Welsh and Cornish (and Les Bretons - Brittany), the population in the south and west midlands (Wessex & Mercia) became predominantly of germanic origin (Anglo-saxon), and then the population in the north and east (Northumbria & Anglia) became predominantly of Scandinavian origin (Viking).
If this is a question?! I'll bite ... "Abhauen" is such a German verb wonder that make foreigners wanting to bite into the table when they try to learn the language. (My wife in example) It could mean "hacking" or "axing" like in "axing out a tree". OR It could mean "running away" like in "prisoners running away from prison". The verb's root would be "hauen", like in "punching something with brute force". We clever Germans put a prefixe at the verb- "ab" in this case - which changes slightly or even significantly the meaning. And to add insult to ijnjurie, we make these verbs even separable (Prädikativer Rahmen). So, when your wife tells you "Hau ab!!, it means you've been a naughty boy and better get lost. One of YOUR ancestors had it all figured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Awful_German_Language https://www.germantranslationtips.com/awful-german-language.html
Do model trains come with defects? Are there any scandals like batches that were made with cheaper material? How is the life of a model train enthousiast? Do they sit on forums of mode train companies being angry about evolutions in the model train world? It can't be all sunshine and roses? I'm sure model trains used to be better than the ones produced today
