PlayStation Spirit Of Steam, Good Work....

Today i saw Spirit of Steam on sale in PS5 platform, and i bought it with -80% the route is awesome, and the quality of the locomotive is amazing, what you think guys it this worth only 7.99€???

Let me know....

 

Steam is buggered in TSW, that's what most people's issue is. The lack of timetable depth and AI, along with other issues (including a lack of a buffet ) also don't help its case either. No chance of it being fixed either as DTG seem not to just abandoned new steam DLCs but also fixes (including some with the water tight DTG promise) for the existing steam locos and routes.

Glad you enjoy it mate and I must say I have got enjoyment out of the SoS challenge runs, but as a whole I am really uneasy with the way this, PFR and steam as a whole has been (mis)handled in TSW.

 

Today I learned matt#4801 is OldVern

 

It is an okay route. Nowhere near what it should be, although I still dabble in it every so often.

 

ROFLOL

Well I’m glad the OP is enjoying SoS, at least they got it at a nice discount.

However the whole thing is still massively flawed. Leaving aside the well documented issues with steam physics (lack of), the route is still empty and barren not at all how a busy main line railway would look in the late 1950’s. And the roof at Crewe station still looks wrong to me, too low and too squat looking. This should have been a long term flagship project going forward with additional DLC for more steam locos, early diesels and various rolling stock all being added to flesh the route out. Eventually it should have got an extension across to Chester and down to Stafford.

It took over a year to identify and fix a bug with AI trains that was causing most freight runs to fail with an erroneous SPAD message.

Sad reality is, the only reason DTG tried to bring steam into TSW is because they were tasked by the (then) CEO Paul Jackson to create something that allowed him to relive childhood memories standing on Crewe station. That’s why we got this route rather than something more iconic like the Somerset and Dorset or Exeter to Kingswear. It was a vanity project and DTG have now turned their backs on steam traction (and classic diesel) to focus on modern Generation Z era routes with trains that have one power handle and ironing board seats.

 

I have a suspicion, former DTG CEO Paul Jackson was afraid of the night in his childhood.

 

I agree with most of what's being said on here,I myself brought it early on it's release, thought it was mostly good but it feels a bit dead ,its in need of a better timetable and more static stock for a start,i believe they did say at the time they used a timetable,but which one??

 

Suspect he never used a buffet or restaurant car either… (Or a sleeping coach).

 

Looking at what people have said, I’m glad that I wasn’t just being an idiot with driving the Jubilee Class and there is a genuine physics problem. Truth be told the only reason I bought Peak Forrest was for when the 1st Gen DMU releases as my area of railway interest starts about there (I like a steam loco just prefer a DMU or EMU)

 

Another thread regarding steam?
I thought no one liked steam, no one would ever buy or want steam?

In all seriousness they should reduce the price on all steam content because they've missold it to everyone promising features and fixes which never came and never will at this stage. Although I do agree that I enjoyed SOS and PFR despite the pretty bad short fallings which have been swept under the rug.

Not that I'm salty at all lmao

 

SoS was a flagship route, we were promised future DLCs would be added onto the route, the team worked hard to replicate the route as it was in the 1950s.

Upon release...it was an empty route, visually it looked spectacular but with hardly the amount of services it needed with Liverpool and Crewe again being devoid of traction. It was very quickly forgotten when Peak Rail was announced.

It's a real missed opportunity

 

It's worth 7.99 all day long. It's a good route its just so empty atm.
I wish dtg would do something with the timetable.

 

As they've clearly stated that it's never going to get the much needed extra rolling stock, is it still worth £7.99?
I can't bring myself to play it, I spend the whole time sighing and thinking what could have been. Oh and getting angry about the still silent AI, 2 years after release

 

It is in my opinion worth full price, looking at all the research went into it. Crewe Liverpool was the initial Steam release, and had no chance to make the route as busy as in reality.

Steam didnt deserve to get abandon ware, and for sure not in its current state. Devs should have made a solid core on a smaller route, then going in with full scale projects. This had no chance from a certain perspective:

- New core incl entire new handling and driving
- No timebased rolling stock
- Route set in a period, which makes it a timeconsuming nightmare for searching the facts for accuracy.

Looking at those factors Sos turned out well, insead they should have pushed it with more content. (future dlcs)

 

TBH their first venture into steam should have been a pack for the WSR. Okay we would have grizzled about the 25 MPH speed restriction but more time could have been spent getting the loco(s) right than the resources that went into the route. No denying it looks good (apart from Crewe roof) but it was a tragic waste of time in the end and, as I said, probably only got green lighted due to the CEO’s specific mandate.

 

I think they used part of a timetable. It doesn't have the local services but the express trains.

 

I definitely think a rural branch line should have been done, with a couple of tank engines and a few wagons, that way it would still be an interesting experience, and the developers could have focused on getting the locos right.

 

Well to be fair it's mostly the same people bringing steam up over and over...and the same people complaining about it endlessly. ;-)

Back to the topic, it's a nice route that is too empty. It's a deal for 8 pounds.... but I hope it gets better with the upcoming update. It's sorely lacking early diesels and some more AI traffic as well as some timetable filler. Steam sadly seems like it'll be the bare bones 4 locos at present. Which... is meh but fine for me.

 

Well to be fair it was one of the most hyped up releases in the history of TSW, Matt and Alex actually seemed to be exuding real enthusiasm and genuine fervour on the streams. But it all too quickly slid down the slope of every other DLC, forgotten and abandoned. It took over a year for the AI SPAD issue to be resolved and then only because pressure from the customers got the EP to step in and oversee the fix himself.

As already noted, no follow up additional content packs or fixes to the steam core and now it’s as if it never existed, a blip in the ocean of one handled mediocrity.

 

The route was screwed. No doubt about it. It's still not a bad deal at 8 pounds. It's still drivable. Just very lackluster.
It's fine to me as an 8 pound route.

I can only hope it gets a nice refurb with the 104 release.

They dropped the ball with steam after the hype, but I think it could have been salvaged still with even "basic" steam (which functions, if not "authentically") and some early diesels. Well, maybe we're getting back there with the 104.

 

I'm not too fussed about steam but at 80% off I'd bite. Have a wee go, spawn in a 101 DMU for trips up and down the line. Sounds nice.
Shame I'm on Xbox lol

 

I've only just got into the UK Steam engines. It's a far different experience and I actually love it. The whole vibe of SOS and Peak Forest is fantastic, although they're not fleshed out. I should have shown more interest when they were released. It'd be great if some small steam engines were made, little shunters and some wagon packs. There's so much potential.

 

I was really, really looking forward to steam. I had assumed we'd get it at some point, once the sim was in a good position, and when it was announced I counted down the days. I thought it would be interesting and absorbing, not to say impressive to be able to control those mighty engines.

While I enjoy most of the routes and locos that are released, the plight of steam feels a bit like DTG's very own version of Beeching.

 

The "community" pretty much decided that if we weren't going to get "authentic steam" then no more steam locos should be made.
So we have what we have.

 

So, if I understand what you say right, you think it is the 'community's' fault steam has been abandoned because we complained when the steam locos acted nothing like steam locos, forget the real life steam locos they are trying to simulate. What a load of boll bullocks.

 

Yeah, sure, blame the community for the abandonment of steam, not you know, the botched physics, lacklustre timetables.

 

The reason there are no more basic steam locos, yes. Many indicated that it was "high quality or nothing"... so they got nothing. That's how ultimatums and demands work.It was a gamble.
That's good from a purity standpoint, bad from a basic playability standpoint. You can look at it either way.

Like people going BALLISTIC because the door buttons were reversed on a loco, ignoring that 99.9% of the thing worked. That one error made it (quote) "totally unplayable!"

The Jubilee, 8F, etc aren't "unplayable" either. Not perfect, but not the worst.

But going back to the original post.... THAT is why there aren't "more steam locos." DTG was told not to work on them if they weren't going to be "more accurate" so... they moved to other projects instead.

As I said, it's a double edged sword. Yes, they protected the authenticity of steam the game, but they did so by eliminating any basic level options in the future. Good/bad.

Again, there's a HUGE thread on this if the OP wants more information on the why.

That doesn't excuse the timetable emptiness, given you can still fill that with existing stock (there's still 4 legacy locos to choose from), nor does it explain the lack of diesel in the route. However, as mentioned before... those may be addressed with the upcoming update.

 

When the state of steam was worse than even the most basic implemenation in TSC, for god's sake even Trainz, then I think customers (and yes, let's not forget we paid for this) were quite justified in their complaints. And DTG should have taken it on the chin and got to grips with the issues not run away in a cowardly fashion from their responsibility to fix it. So no I don't think it's fair to blame the customers one bit. They should have built more steam content hand in hand with actually fixing what was wrong with the implementation.

 

Again, this isn't the Steam thread, it's been discussed there, but the argument was that was the "best they could do" without overhauling the game. I'm not blaming customers for complaining... I'm saying actions have consequences. The route of least resistance was to not do a niche market instead of overhauling the mechanics of the game.

DTG implemented steam.
Vocal customers made a choice to not like it.
DTG made a choice in response to not do more.

One lead to the other. It's an explanation, not "blame."
That implies some sort of intentional malice.

No, I just think the sides couldn't compromise and one thing lead to another.
There's nothing nefarious about that.

Lots of businesses have a failed product and pull the failed product instead of fixing it.
Ford stopped making airplanes and concentrated on building cars and trucks.

 

I don't think that is accurate or fair at all!

SOS arrived with great fanfare and a vision of what TSW could do to recreate a by-gone age. The physics weren't accurate, the AI didn't make any steam engine sounds, there were other issues with the route. We were told they would be looked at. I think the physics were tweaked if I recall after. The timetable was frankly totally unrepresentative of what a busy steam period mainline would have been like. The potential for DLC and to create a work of art in my opinion was there and it has been squandered.

PFR was then released and it is a lovely route, very well created. Steam had the same issues however and the route had a very odd scope going from one minor station to one slightly less minor. Potential DLC was mooted and discussed.

Then the news came that there was to be no more development. Maybe that decision came from upstairs or the new owners, it was certainly not at the behest of the "community". DTG have decided for whatever reason to abandon steam, maybe they can't fix the issues, maybe they don't feel it is worth it. Maybe management have decided that pre 2015 routes aren't profitable.

If they created some of the more modern content with the same amount of issues the forums would be in uproar. Can you imagine if the new 218 or one of the big American freight loco's didn't have any sound in AI mode, would that be accepted?

The fate of steam is on DTG and DTG alone, not the likes of us in the topic. It is clear many do want to see steam kept alive in TSW.

 

That is a very simplistic summary. We didn't make a choice not to like it. We wanted to work properly, the AI to have sounds and the routes released to have more development.

Many of us were hoping for DLC for SOS and until PFR came out, I certainly thought some was inevitable, there were huge gaps in the timetable. That isn't a case of customers making a choice not to like it, but actually wanting more!

 

Does it matter why? Fact is steam is borked and likely to stay that way. DTG have taken how long to sort suspension out? Steam has no chance unless it's outsourced and even then any 3rd party has to work with something that likely makes it a futile exercise.
But hey, blame 'the community'. It'd be a first in terms of feedback actually being listened to so I'll take that as a win of sorts.

 

I think operator#7940 describes it pretty good and without distracting emotionality.

No one is to blame, one thing leads to another. Poor implementation led to poor sales and refunds.

DTG are promising us to "deliver the best experience possible", which means that SoS was the best possible way for them to deliver a steam experience. "Best possible" means "the best we can", not the best imaginable. The community voted with their wallets and voices, that they were not satisfied. It didn't sell well apparently. I am interpreting DTG's decision as admitting "Sorry, we can't do better unfortunately." Which is not unfair.

Not sure if there was a question related to steam in the survey - did they ever present the results?

 

A lot of assumption going on here dressed up as fact.

 

Did they vote with their wallets? SOS was popular or so it seemed, if it wasn't why was PFR even considered? Steam was abandoned after both SOS and PFR were released.

I think many of us from comments I have seen on here, would accept steam in the condition it is, if it was a choice of steam or no steam.

 

"Many" might just not be enough unfortunately. Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred to have an honest explanation from Matt, but it doesn't change anything. I cannot see TSW delivering good steam simulation, so I'm playing another sim that does it better and I am happy - which is the reason I'm playing these games.

The more you are projecting into things that aren't what you want them to be, the quicker you will get bitter and angry, lost in these circles of "Could've should've would've" which only make yourself sick.

 

Honesty and transparency seem to have disappeared about the same time as DTG being bought out.

 

First of all something has to be laid out, to call these even basic steam locos is really pushing the boat out, what I saw indicated were people just wanted steam locos which behaved like steam locos, rather than high quality to start with. I am sure all of us would take a basic, but more accurate, steam loco implementation over what we have currently. Apart from people saying things in the heat of the moment I do not recall many people saying we need perfect steam, or no steam at all, just the basic expectation that steam locos would feel like steam locos should. Currently it is very difficult to really feel like you are driving a steam loco in TSW, something TSC does well. Not sure how people 'going BALLISTIC' over doors comes into this, I have seen people complain about doors but no explosions of anger. I have never said the words unplayable, because they can be enjoyable (SoS challenge) but most of the time spent driving them is trying to ignore the negatives to take the positives, this gets harder the faster you got as the chuffing merges into the other noises to create a blur of white noise.

Again, why do you think a couple of people on here saying not to do steam if they can't get them to work is what made them stop, when not only were there a lot of excitement for them but many people, including myself, saying that before they do more steam locos they need to improve the physics rather than stop; this is totally different to telling them to stop development and (promised) fixes altogether.

Honestly I don't blame the poster for not reading through all of those pages and I see no reason why it can't be discussed here, after all the thread is on the wider topic of SoS which includes the route and steam locos, which have hit the buffers and fallen into DTG towers pits of doom.

 

I was playing (and got introduced) to steamers in TSC, playing the brilliant Smokebox, VictoryWorks and Bossman locos. I did research, wanting to expand my knowledge and apply it in the game, which worked well and fairly prototypical as far as I can judge.

Then I saw SoS and just thought "What the? This is nothing how you would drive a steam loco!" A step backward, nothing to do with the excitement of mastering a mechanical steam loco, which for me is the rewarding factor making me want to play steamers, as well as to relive the old days. It works better in TSC, and I've learned what to expect from TSW and what not. It will never be the "ultimate" train sim, it's fair to say this after it's on the market for more than seven years.

 

The level of Stockholm syndrome in many modern consumers just blows my mind.
Companies are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Dtg have abandoned steam but what about 3rd party developers? I'm sure one of those could get it right in the future.

If dtg would have done sos with both steam and diesel it wouldn't be so desolate.

It's still a superb route.

 

Not without the core being seriously updated.

 

From what I have read, injectors can't be properly simulated without a change in the core, which again could break a lot of other stuff. Don't know if that's true though.

 

The problem is in TSW's core simulation, only DTG have the means and knowhow to mess around with that. They can't be bothered to do a proper job of steam. Why would any third party want to build steam content on an unstable foundation? DTG need to put the time and work in to make TSW attractive to those third party developers that focus on steam, not the other way around.

 

Oh it really is the end for steam then. Unless dtg release another tsw, not based on the original engine in any shape or form.

Pity.

 

Yeah just assume no more steam traction is coming until DTG say otherwise... In the meantime, there are plenty of electric boxes on wheels with one power handle that all drive the same to enjoy

I'm just glad JT are out there giving us something different. If they hadn't jumped over to TSW and given us Blackpool Branches, TSW4 would've be absolutely dire for UK variety.

 

Already in the pipeline?

 

They have to upgrade in a couple years. The engine is getting pretty old now. That won't just affect that aspect but MANY things, hopefully improving the whole game.

 

Time flies ...

Dtg's "policy" On Only Modern Content

 

I'd still recommend getting both SOS and PFR if you get them on sale.