Sorry whats the quality standards to get a DTG Ambassador? I'm shocked by guy and what DTG thinks about some quality standards to have title.... Why is it not so that DTG have quality list on what those people have to check before they enter or post a video in general.... For non German speakers you do not understand the language to see in this video whats wrong here and why this guy do not have take any possible option to check the manual and thinks "Expert mode? That must be easy" This video is bizar and i have no understanding for such things.... Please DTG there are more and better people to fill in this job..... [MEDIA]https://www.youtube.com/live/rFx6Q9TlY08?si=TUB98I2psyTPEYkj[/MEDIA]
I am a bit confused at what the purpose of this thread is. Are you saying that the youtuber who made the video with the 101 should no longer be a DTG ambassador?
I'm interested in whether and what the quality should be according to DTG... I mean this video above shows to me that practically no effort has been put into this video and he curses when he can't do it because of his own laziness not wanting to read the manual. He says that too ("143 pages, so I don't feel like reading that") In addition, pointing the finger at the developer "it doesn't work because of the bugs in the product". So that's not where it lies, his own laziness. I personally find that at least remarkable.
... says Xander, the advocate of freedom of speech. Creating two discussion threads in panic because of some youtuber? Sheesh you got problems mate...looks more like attention seeking. Could've posted in Off Topic, or better just send a DM to Matt directly to report the "blasphemy".
In your opinion. Personal incredulity is not a reason for DTG to get rid of anyone. Just because it's not to your personal standards or aligns with your beliefs it shouldn't be allowed?
Actually isn’t it a good thing if an ambassador isn’t just kowtowing to the company line? Though probably ought to ease up on profanity if broadcasting on a semi DTG leash.
I think it's genius to have such ambassadors. I don't know what streamer I watched yesterday but I enjoyed it very much and wish Matt would have a look at the non expert ambassadors as they show lots of stuff that should have been fixed in the core game. I literally watched my self every time I start a new route. I think I found my new favourite streamer on TSW. I remember it was a 3 letter name streamer.
I disagree. In it's own 'unique' way it perfectly highlight the level of difficulty the expert loco brings to the table....and that can be invaluable to a novice who has only seen potentially misleading content from other ambassadors who pretend that it's their first attempt but have secretly been practicing to make themselves look a bit more proficient. CGD is another creator who put out raw, unedited footage - and whilst he didn't do particularly well, it was far more informative than those who do this and this and this in the blink of an eye and give out the slightly false impression that it's a lot easier than it actually is.
Content creators who show only everything done in perfection makes it feel unbelivable. They telegraphing the false perception that everything is totally easy. This is not what this DLC is supposed to represent. I like to see rather a video with people struggle with it and work on their own individual approach for fault solution, than a boring always perfect choeography video where people representing robots in a loco cab. As long the content is not explicitely labeled as tutorial, where you expect a different standard, its fine to see people struggle with handling the loco
if you aggressively refuse to read, start swearing and then fail completely who is helped by that in a video to show a DLC? nobody is perfect that is true but just as an extreme example..... if you advertise cars and make test drives on video a driver's license is also useful?
You should realise that not everyone is the same and people react to things another way like you do. There is this infamous streamer that shouts the whole time negatively about this game. I bought a lot of DLC just by watching his streams. I was very amused by a person yesterday asking why he was chosen a brand ambassador as he doesn't know much about trains. What he showed was broken 101 tutorials. Exactly how you expect a TSW release to be. I will still buy the DLC. It's expensive but it's the 101 and it looks gorgeous .
Okay for me it sound a little strange but fair enough if you have fun with it but to be honest.... Have you learned a bit over the product it self besides that he did not get there?
That should be a bug and was not intended... Sorry if that was happening... Or maybe it was the forum software it self. I was trying to add the video if you see in the first post there was something wrong i guess
I personally learned a lot. For one, user manuals are not just something you read in the bath when you've memorised the labels of all the shampoo bottles - they can sometimes be useful. I also learned naughty words in a foreign language and I'd even go as far as to say that I've most definitely learned I ain't ever going to be an 'expert' pretend train driver
More than I would from watching the "established" brand ambassadors. I had watched those first and they did not really convince me to buy it. I kept thinking but what will I really experience when I buy this DLC. I'm sure I'll be able to drive this train with no manual at all. I'm really not gonna read a 140 page document before turning on my PS5
But you can read and understanding German? And its not the first time you have heard about ZDE etc? So if its the case than you dont need a video in general?! Its more for entertainment then?
I don't understand a word German and the streamer didn't either. He probably thought he was driving in expert mode but he wasn't.
Ah yeah but my question was more in a way of if you know the whole process from for example TSC and you have experience than its a complete different way of looking. Than its more entertainment to see some one die...
Exactly, I like to be entertained. The ones you probably consider as brand ambassadors to watch will probably make me fall asleep
It's a bit harsh towards the ambassador. The loco is complex to drive and it's a lot learning by doing (whilst also having a look into the manual). I understand - we as ambassadors should be a point where the TSW community looks to find valuable information about the product: how it is quality-wise, which highlights can be seen, which bugs are there at release, and maybe a personal opinion if they think that the DLC is worth it or not. And of course: having a good tutorial how to drive the train without needing to read all of the 143 pages by yourself). On the other hand the stream of this ambassador shows how many people are going to struggle if they don't 'understand' the expert mode and if they're not willing to read the manual. You will struggle and it will be frustrating. It proves, that if you as costumer just want an 'easy' drive without investing time to read and look up tutorials, this dlc is probably not for you. That's why I think the video is indeed valuable from that perspective. It saves people spending money for an frustrating experience. But I can also tell you from my experience: it feels very rewarding and great if you *are* able to manage the expert mode. It's soooo much fun and there are so many things to explore. I'll do a video only about the GSMR very soon. You will not trust your eyes what the thing is able to do!
And this probably has nothing on the streams and YT reviews that will soon arrive from non affiliated customers, or negative Steam etc. reviews, when people pay £30 and can’t get to grip with the thing. Maybe unfair on the developers who poured their heart and soul into it but at the end of the day, maybe a bit less complexity and a slightly cheaper price would have led to a better customer response.
I absolutely guarantee that, unless it's broken, the negativity won't be focused on the complexity of the addon, it'll be purely about the price people have been asked to pay for a recycled train. Unfair? Well, according to the official stream (under the "discount for current owners" question) TSG implied it was unfair that they should be penalised for adding features into a train that they didn't originally make, but think it's perfectly fair that the consumer should pay for the train again in order to get these features...so in terms of price and value I think that any negativity is completely justified.
I dont watch the streams because its a pain to see the helpless youtubers searching at the wrong end for faults. But i guess same the other way around if the devs had to watch me making a mod or unreal editing.. Railway is a lifemission, for which one lifetime is not enough to learn all of it. But on the other hand you might learn something new everyday and it will never get boring. TSG made a very good decision by involving a real driver. It cant be expected from somebody outside the rail sector or from a programmer to have in deepth knowledge in all the train systems. Also many people working in the railway industry see their profession as normal job and dont care about trains after 5pm, which is also perfectly fine.
Thats a very nice reaction! Thank you. What i think if you did not have time or not the courage to read the manual than is my question do you need to make a video of a livestream?! Its entertainment sure but what you correct mentioned its a very difficult addon so it will be way more helpful if you informed the user than let the user behind and teach them nothing. This kind of videos should be way more than entertainment. I can feel coming a large bunch of users they get stuck and being mad and come here to the forums to complaining. So it could be/ is a risk for a boomerang effect here i guess... You called me "harsh" but its not a product to put the pedal to the metal and think i can do it without any knowledge. Its communicatie so much time and your'e a little dumb if you ignore it.
YouTubers don't have to follow a given format. Why shouldn't there be video's that I learn more from about the product than the video's that are well prepared? Try to be openminded and not every YouTuber or Brand ambassador should make content like you expect it to be. Just skip the content you don't want to watch. The amateurish brand ambassadors work. They sold me the product. Someone that was well prepared with manual couldn't.
Thats true and not what i expect by a regular addon.... But you missed my point here... This loco is way more difficult than others and to prevent a lot of complaining and negative reviews this kind of streams is a little tricky.... This streamers are not for fun of entertainment but they are there to get higher selling so im very curious how this will goes.
Sure everyone is missing the point beside you. The brand ambassadors exist to sell stuff. I just told you they did. They did their jobs.
In truth, I do wonder whether TSG and DTG seriously misjudged the core market of TSW in planning and releasing this add on for the platform. TSW has always been more game orientated title, with emphasis on casual gameplay - hence all the AP, Mastery, Collectible etc. fluff. Got to wonder what convinced them there was a huge market for this type of add on and how it was likely to be received by the average player, as opposed to making it for TSC where "expert" or "pro" level content is much more common?
The Expert does not differ much in that aspect from other TSW DLC. I do like the concept. I'm really paying a lot of money for this DLC as I will probably never use it in Expert mode. But I like the train a lot and the routes that it is featured on are fun to drive. I still think the expert features should have been locked and should have been paid to unlock. €20 for the 101 and €25 to unlock expert would make more sense. Higher pricing in the end but more affordable for people that don't want to read a manual and get freaked out by errors all the time.
Thats for sure the problem. And if you watch the streams you see very good how much of them are not capable to manage the loco and/cabcar what will the user do?!
They will turn expert mode off and enjoy the train Most of them will not even know they have expert mode turned off by default and will think they do very fine without the manual
By the stream that i have shared you see there whats going on..... He think to have the pzb on via the buttons on the wall and does not no to turn the faults off.... You need to read the manual also to turn all other stuff off.... Its not so simple to turn it off and pededal to the metal. In real life you do not turn off the safety systems at all
But that's the entertainment. You can shout to the screen "no that is wrong!". It's like when you were a kid and watched those puppet plays (NL: poppenkast).
It's interesting to see how the community discusses what function the ambassadors should have. There is no right or wrong answer. Some ambassadors play it more seriously and are prepared, some are trying to be rather entertaining and some just show how they struggle with stuff. There is a range of ambassadors and every one of them (or rather 'us') plays tsw differently. I agree with you, Xander, that ambassadors also should be somewhat prepared and showcase all the strength of the product. And it's frustrating to see that someone struggles that much. But on the other hand other people find it entertaining. They think 'oh I can do that better' or 'look, that's an interesting challenge, I'll try it by myself'. Luckily, there are a lot of ambassadors and non-ambassadors. And at the end of the day you're free to (not) watch whoever you want.
Well, I watched the CGD preview stream and Lee quite openly stated that if he wasn't an ambassador then he wouldn't have even considered paying £30 for the expert addon. Maybe in a sale but definitely not at full price. I mean, he even went on to say that, due to it's complexity, novices should probably refrain from making a purchase, so that's hardly a recipe for a strong sales pitch, is it? I get it that *some* ambassadors do tend to go down the "this is wonderful, this is beautiful" path more often than they should but there are still others who consider transparency to be a much more important aspect of their streams, so let's not tar them all with the same "we're here to sell stuff" brush.
That was the ambassador who sold me this DLC. I like the transparency in the stream he uploaded. He seems to play TSW like I do. He showed me exactly what I would get if I bought this DLC and it felt way more relax than the ambassador who was worrying about an error on a screen and had to look it up in the manual. I never know if he found the error because I lost interest. Most people that know TSW and play it are more experienced as him so his sales pitch works perfectly. If you are worse than me it this game buy it in sales. Not a lot of people can be worse than him from what I watched him play. But I don't mean that in a mean spirited way.
Though CDG's native language is not German, right? Because I think if you're German and actually know the very iconic and fascinating cab car from reality + you actually understand what the loco tells you, it's a completely different experience. I have to imagine an expert American loco will be released. I don't understand how the loco works, I don't personally even care for American railways at all, I honestly don't have the motivation to learn about US railways - would I recommend this loco for 35 Euros? Probably not. But as a German, I do recommend the expert 101 (at least for people from Germany), because I understand German railways, how to drive the loco and I know about the railway cultural impact of the cab car. But you *need* this knowledge to be fully able to understand why this expert DLC is even worth it.
I really like this post, and think it raises a great point. I'm a real fan of playing KSP Realism Overhaul because it simulates real rocket performance. Would I recommend it to a KSP novice? No chance! Does it mean I like it any less or that it won't be suitable for that novice at some point? Of course not. Like anything complex, it requires a certain degree of accessibility provided through adequate train8ng material and clear and concise guidance. Do we have to attack those who try, and fail, because they failed to grasp the prerequisite training materials and guidance? No, because that would be an act of self sabotage.instead, we point out the error and suggest a source of information, the solution only as a point of last resort, because that way the knowledge is owned. I am certain there will be a multitude of comments along the lines of its too hard, why can't I get it to do x,y,z.. how one responds dictates the success or failure of the intent to help, and if one doesn't intend to help but is motivated by an elitist superiority complex (all to common in the realm of intricate simulation), then one should be aware of the likelihood of self sabotage to one's pet project. Best comments I could hope to see when it comes to help? See manual, page xx refers, sub section xyz.
Hi folks, Just wanted to come into this thread and clarify that we do not dictate what our ambassadors should say, or how they should react to add-ons we provide. We expect them to help us present the new releases to their respective communities, and that they offer constructive insights, but they are very much allowed to show frustration, in the same manner that they can show praise for our releases. They are perfectly in their own right to share their true opinions and thoughts. The Expert DB BR 101 is an extremely complex locomotive to use, and offers a very detailed simulation - which may at times be confusing to follow. We've provided a couple of Expert 101 manuals to support everyone as they learn, in both English and German, alongside the in-game tutorials on the Training Center. We have a large pool of ambassadors who we work closely with, and there are many different viewpoints, styles of video, and ways of presenting information across that collective that differ from one creator to the next. As the conversation has moved on, but is otherwise more constructive, I will leave this thread open.
Yes everyone has a different approach but i can not understand that you didn't take any time to read the advice manual! Did you send this manual to them with the beta to show DTG Alex? If you are an ambassador you should be informed by DTG about this i think.....
I think, but do not know, that you tubers can feel under pressure to get their content out rapidly in order to generate likes etc which in turn generate their income stream. Such time pressure can be difficult to manage when it involves rapidly assimilating a large amount of information and then condensing it in a meaningful and digestible way. Hopefully over the coming period, more accurate and useful material will be generated free from such pressures, if they exist.
Is it "pressure" that is created by the youtuber it self... YT works with views and the feeling of fast scoring or is it a big job to do? I have no clue... There are also YTers they upload today so you can take a little bit more time if you wish i guess...
True. These people have lives. They know they have to release the content at a given date and not a day later or the content is already irrelevant because other creators have seized the algorithm. I think if you want them to change their content you will have to join their patreons I speak Dutch so if Xander can make very good content in Dutch he should be Brand Ambassador in Dutch. But I would be very critical of his content
