When is the busy period on the peak forest route? There must be a busy time when you should see more than 1 train a hour?
I don’t think it has a busy period tbh, that was one of the complaints about the route iircc Hope the 104 adds some traffic whenever it arrives
Also listed at a 'Class 104 & Peak Forest expansion' pack on the Road Map, so I wonder if we will be get any nice extras? Look forward to it as Peak forest is a completely underrated route with really nice detail...
If I remember correctly the PFR expansion will have the 104 DMU, a new 20 ton wagon and a grain hopper wagon as well as a new timetable to make it busier.
The 104 sounds good. I never knew this was upcoming. This route has so much potential, it is exceptionally well done, sometimes I feel as if I have taken a step back in time and I'm really there. It's a pity dtg didn't add some of the diesel traction that worked the route, that we already have in tsw.
So many people were calling for a green Class 45, and I absolutely agree it should have been there. Or even something as simple as putting the 08 in a green or black reskin and using that on the shunting instead of the 4f everywhere. The biggest complaints people had were the lack of diesels, the lack of any sort of busy timetable, and that it ended at Ambergate instead of continuing to Derby where an actual major freight yard in the south could have been included. Biggest complaint I personally had with the timetable was that the 4f, one of my personal favourite steam engines, practically never got to pull anything out on the main line. Not even going into the physics of it being the most botched of any steam loco (holding max speed and steam pressure at 60% reverser) but I believe we did hear somewhere that the 4f will actually have some more significant workings in the new 104 timetable so looking forward to that.
And the appalling steam physics. Also just as a quick pointer it is Derby at the southern end not Crewe.
Think you mean Derby, but yes it was a huge and nonsensical omission papered over at the time by DTG marketing speak. Ideally should have gone all the way from Derby to Manchester.
A class 45 and the 08 would do nicely. I would have been nice going all the way to Derby. I think with some more services in the near future, it will make the route more than adequate.
There isn't a busy period from what I recall, I haven't touched it for a year. One of stations doesn't even have a train stopping at it one direction from what I remember. Hopefully the 104 will make it seem busier. It would never have been hugely busy though in reality although much busier than the timetable suggests.
Agreed. The 104, 08 and 45 would be fine along with the rolling stock already mentioned. I know they can argue that it's set in 1958 and the 45 didn't come on until 1960, but there's SO much "wiggle room" on other routes... and it's not like the stations, cars or steam engines disappeared in 3 years. It would have looked the same in 1961. The bigger changes I don't THINK happened until the mid-late 1960s (retiring of steam, etc) I could be wrong. I'm not a Brit rail historian, just look stuff up I don't know for fun on a rather ad-hoc basis. =-)
It's actually set in 1963 (Spirit of Steam is set in 1958), so it boggles the mind as to how they possibly concluded that it was ok to miss out the Class 45. Peak Forest is a spectacular route, more-or-less ruined by the lack of appropriate rolling stock and empty/unrealistic timetable (despite the community flagging all of this up well ahead of time, and even offering to help out). One of DTG's most shameful episodes.
Is it? I could have sworn I read they were both 1958.... well anyway, it fits right in that window well. It surprised me that there was nothing diesel layered onto it when I bought it. Just seems like a huge hole in the route.
Sos should have been based a few years later then we could have seen steam, diesel and electric traction. I'm hopeful peak forest isn't gonna meet the same fate of being utterly pointless.
Yeah it does feel like a huge "sandbox" with very little in it rather than a populated, "live" route. Did the Class 47 go on one or both? Seems like they went everywhere and they're on a LOT of routes already so it should be easy to layer that too. If nothing else, the Class 08 is the minimum since it was in service in the 1950s. There's NO reason those wouldn't be all over the line, even doing some of the shorter freight runs (I don't think they were used on the passenger routes. Not "classy" enough ;-)
I'm pretty sure the reason for the peak not being added to the new expansion/timetable was because the devs can't stand the loco so they weren't going to add it, I might be wrong on that but I seem to remember seeing it being mentioned in one of the Discord channels
My guess its the configuration. Currently the Dual braked version is present in tsw. Not 100% sure if they were converted around 1963, if not Dtg would make a vacuum braked only version. (Or give away a bit of realism for variety and bring in a green in dual mode to swap it when there is the other one.)
I don't know about the 47. I know they come out of crewe, it's a possibility. Also heard mention of 31's operating peak forest. I think maybe after the 1960's though.
The configuration would be different - remove the air brakes, different headcode model, obviously the new livery as well. Some reasonable changes but nothing approaching the development cost of a new loco entirely. Frankly the 45 would have been a better fit for the route than the 4F. It really should have shipped with a green version of the 101 as well - I know it's not exactly prototypical, but far better than nothing at all, which makes the route so far removed from reality that it's difficult to play despite the gorgeous scenery and incredible detail in (among other things) the signalling. Or better yet, a green 111 based on the 101, which were seen for a short time on the Buxton branch. Peak Forest for me was the point at which I personally lost faith in DTG to deliver the right product - that's not to say I don't still play and have fun, because I do, but I was a fully paid-up member of the TSW club beforehand. A big, big disappointment, and more frustratingly a waste of so much development time because it wasn't done right from the start.
Wouldn't the 45/0 require steam heating? I mean, it would be wonderful if it could happen and they get the visuals right. Steam venting from the loco and coaches - yes! #DreamOnStrat
I've just tried making the most out of the route by loading up a timetable on foot then spawning a green 47 with a few coaches then driving that, it's a really good route but it's too quiet and the steam locos can be a bit too fiddly to enjoy (which is a shame). I'm very much looking forward to the 104 coming along with a new timetable
I've had quite a lot of fun spawing in various rolling stock into timetable mode. Trying to get the class 08 up some of the ridiculous grades on a few hidden spurs. Would be nice to see more traffic along the way.
It does baffle me too how a 45/0 was missed, as by '63 they were just as if not more numerous on the expresses than the kettles, 47s were still confined to their original home of the ER in '63 I believe so wouldn't have expected them to feature. I do think this route is best enjoyed doing either SoS challenge runs, or free roam with the peak and some of David's blue/grey MKIs. I mean, imagine this in timetable mode with one of a variety of the head code boxes the peaks had and a buffet car :
I have no idea how but this is not the first time I've got them mixed up. Yes you are both right, I did mean Derby. Also not to mention that at around the same time MML was releasing, so in a better world we could have had the same place depicted in two different time periods.
I think your option there was to double down and insist that what you'd meant was that the inclusion of the North Staffordshire Railway route from Derby to Crewe via Stoke should have been a bare minimum requirement...
I know the 104 got pushed back. I think this could be a potential blessing following the recent trends on WSR and Cathcart. Please DTG upgrade it to TOD4, add in the diesels above and make the alternative timetable somewhat fictional. It would be great to have mixed steam/diesel passenger/freight moves on the route with a BML busy feel. Its a stunning route, just feels massively too quiet. Also need to populate a lot of the sidings along the route with stock. They could really transform the feel of the route.
Oh if only. What I wouldn't give to have a proper 1960s network in the vein of SEHS or BPO. Won't happen though with steam abandoned. Peak Forest is the closest we'll get to that I reckon, with lots of lineside industry and the Buxton branch. We'll just have to see how good the revised timetable with the 104 comes out.
I haven't found a lot on the Class 104. Was it a manual transmission like the 101? That one can be a bit finicky to drive in TSW. (Prolly irl too) Did it have a more rigid body like the Pacer? Either way it'll add a lot to the route. Just curious what unique features the 104 should have to be "realistic."
It's a first Generation DMU with manual transmission. It has a raspy exhaust note (if they do the sounds right) which was a characteristic. As well as the angled front end with small grill. They hung on just into the 90s waiting on Sprinters bring delivered and Network Turbos in London. Well known for being used in the Buxton area and around Manchester in general. Often worked to Blackpool which was one of my first ever memories of the railway seeing them all lined up ar North Station. Last memories on the mainline was seeing them parked up at Chester waiting the tow to scrap or preservation.
In Blue on NTP and BPO possibly WSR but unsure of any others as we don't have much else. Don't think TVL would be realistic.
Think some might have been assigned to Heaton for a while and I might have travelled on one from Felling into Newcastle, prior to the Metro going to South Shields.
Darlington had them but Darlington depot closed in the early to mid 80's so before TVL is set. Plus I think the 104's were long gone by then in favour of class 101's.
I was playing last night. Not pfr but I noticed the flying Scott that I had completely forgot about! With that and the jubilee, 8f and 4f and the br blue diesels there's enough rolling stock to populate a busy steam era route? There must have been a railway at some point in time that all these trains would share?
BR Blue generally did not occupy the same "space" as the tail end of steam. BR Green, yes. The A3's were essentially top link express locos working out of Kings Cross on the ECML, so would not have been that common a sight where routes shared with LM services. Leaving all else aside, DTG really missed a trick by not adding the more common workaday Black Five rather than either the 8F or the 4F.
Ahh yes br green, my mistake. I watched some archive films around the crewe area with steam diesel and some early electric traction. I can't help but wonder why dtg didn't go down that route with sos.
This is how the in-game passenger timetable compares to the 1963 real thing. Also note that all of the shuttle DMU services between Miller's Dale and Buxton are missing too: The following are also missing from the in-game timetable: - General mixed freight pick-up/drop-off throughout the entire route - AI passenger services at Chinley to/from Sheffield via Hope Valley - AI passenger services at Ambergate for the Midland Main Line - AI passenger services at Buxton LNWR The freight services are not representative of the real timetable either as far as I am aware.
Woe betide the fan of classic diesel locos and classic sports cars, the "B.R. Green"confusion is real XD
Hopefully if they are working the 104 into the timetable they might be kind enough to add some missing services. Or I'm a right in thinking some of the freight services missing would be diesel hauled trains? Thanks for taking the time to compare the time tables.
Part of me hopes the reason the 104 is taking so long is that someones trying to fix steam and the long list of features we were missold. Wishful thinking lmao!
Are the services operated by diesel traction in real life "faked" with steam locos, or are they missing entirely?
I think at the time when some of us looked into it, there was just about an equal chance of services in that period turning up with a steam or diesel loco. Same balance would probably have applied to the missing services, though the Buxton shuttles were definitely DMU by then. In addition to green Peaks, Class 25's would have been found on the secondary services and lighter freight workings, or even double headed on heavier trains.
