Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 2 Year Anniversary

AvfcWalpole7 · Aug 20, 2024

SGTDRE said: ↑

know I’m a bit late to the party on this topic of what is or could be the next iteration of Train Sim World, be it 5 or not, I read through most of the posts and IMHO where DTG had made a statement of an unconfirmed leak and that they take it seriously, especially when an NDA is violated or broken and I agree it’s serious when an NDA is broken/violated, the trust has been broken and makes it hard for any company, gaming or not, to consider having any type of beta testers, seeing that this discussion is about gaming as a whole.

Over the years I have seen “NDAs be violated and information leaked” from politics to businesses and without going into the most well-known leaks that are known to many involving governments but companies as well many of those leaks have proven to be correct which I guess you can say were and are a violation of an NDA and I can only speak from my point of view from living in the states and some of the crazy politics and some of the many many “leaks” were always seem to come out on a Friday evening.

Then all the social media platforms start popping up with stories of he said-she said, he said-he said, she said-she said, they said they didn’t do it, we didn’t do it, we’re gonna get to the bottom of this as to who leaked the information and they will be held accountable, we take this very seriously, and more often than not, nothing ever comes of it or it all ends up becoming true all in a matter of time and all this time everybody's talking about whatever the leaked information was or may have been and all the conspiracy theories and I’m not one for wearing a tin foil hat.

I understand much of what I said here is a bit vague and it touches more on the politics side than gaming as a whole but this leads me back to the stated NDA that was violated by the unconfirmed leak statement by DTG. They did not actually say it was TSW5 or not just that they have a major announcement on 20 August 2024 and yet here we are, how many posts, and threads, I can't begin to say how many videos I’ve come across talking about TSW5 from across the internet.

Again, I’m not one to put on a tin foil hat but, I keep thinking about the information that was leaked and even seeing what that possible leak was is next to nothing that I can see that confirms one thing or the other. Now, those in the modding community that are part of the Epic Discord/Forums(?) where screenshots were taken from showing the next product from DTG with the secret code name that was used for the next product that is due out in September of 2024, I’ve only seen snippets of the screenshots that were taken showing code names, if you will, for lack of a better term. But, I can't help but wonder, was this truly an NDA violation? Some may say why do I question this?

This brings me to another analogy when an auto manufacturer builds a new vehicle model, it’s covered in almost like a camo-type canvas, more like a military style marpart camouflage to hide any car parts or anything to identify what type of vehicle it may be. They do this all the time, they drive the vehicle in public. Why? If it’s meant to be a hidden secret why drive around with this new vehicle model which is for the most part pretty well hidden in the body style, any markings it may have, paint color, but yet what do we all do? From the news media to the care publications, hot rod publications, anyone who’s a gearhead. And anyone else who is just interested in cars, what is everyone doing? What do we all do?

Everybody’s speculating. All kinds of speculating. All kinds of speculations. You see videos. Pictures. Everyone's talking about it. And, sometimes some of the wildest stories and speculations are stated. And when you really think about it, why are the car manufacturers doing this? For what reason? They have private test tracks. They even have private test tracks for trains. And, from what I understand, the training center that we all know and use in TSW__ is modeled after the real-world Seimens test track.

So, the only thing I can conclude, why all these different types of speculations/stories/violations of NDA are talked about in the way that they are is for what? What is the best advertisement for any company or corporation and for those corporations that are publicly traded on the stock market, what is the best advertisement they can have and not spend any money on? This is where I keep coming back to. Was this a violation of the NDA? Truly, was it?

And I question this sincerely and honestly. Not to imply anything but what are we all talking about? What has everyone talked about on this forum over the past month and a half? Multiple threads here on the forums and multiple videos talking about TSW__. And everything keeps coming back to TSW5, the conversations have pretty much died down but I wonder. I really do. And the reason why I say I really do wonder…

Those who believe in God and those who question the existence of God, will understand this statement and I’m guessing most would also understand this statement: For even God, would rather honest questioning, than blindfolded fear.

Now, some may think I’m crazy for making this statement and questioning the statement that an NDA was violated and information to TSW5 was leaked and whether DTG will re-evaluate their reliance on beta testers and that may very well be true that an NDA was violated by a beta tester or someone. But, with all the speculation that has been stated all I can think of is, what is the best advertisement that is unpaid for by any company? I don’t care what they make. And, I know myself, I made the statement months ago, that TSW5 will be the next iteration.

Just looking back at how they released TSW2, 3 & 4. That's what I’m looking back at. At the same time, I can't get that survey that many of us filled out months ago, and looking at the current Train Sim Classic models they rolled out, what 2 months ago? I may have made the statement, I don’t know if it was here on the dovetail forums, but I did state that if DTG sees this subscription model with TSC take off and be a viable product for them, they would look into it, think about, maybe not state it publicly, but look into implementing it into TSW.

This too, I stated, I will not buy into any subscription. I begrudgingly have a subscription with Xbox and I barely use it other than to watch streaming TV and even that is not that much. Maybe I’m just that old school where I’d rather buy the product and own the product. I have a good handful of games that if I had no internet I could still play the games. They don’t need to be connected to the internet 24/7/365.

So, whatever DTG does announce on the 20th of this month, will be interesting, to say the least. I would much rather see much of what is broken in TSW4 fixed, patched, and corrected. There is plenty that was left broken in TSW2020 as well as TSW2 & 3 and it is left the way it is. It hasn't been fixed. Is that what’s going to happen with TSW4? Because if this is the model, I don’t see myself spending more money on another iteration of TSW__ without some real consideration, some serious thought and it has to be really outstanding and, even then, I will question, why? Why should I?

Subscription? No. That is an outright, no. That is not going to happen. But at the same time, I understand. A game developer/publisher needs to stay viable in order to continue to create and provide the gaming content that we gamers would like to have and at the same time to pay the bills and make a living. And the one thing that I’ve been keeping an eye on is the value of the parent company Pullup and the subsidiaries Focus, DTG. The only thing I can think of for them to do what they are going to do and are doing is to find the best way to keep the shareholders happy.

The attached images in the spoiler are all publicly available. Links are also provided so all can see the information. I haven't looked lately but from what I have seen so far, the value has gone up a little bit. Not a lot, but it has gone up. This could be due to the number of sales that were available to all via Steam, Humble Bundle, epic, or wherever else the products, TSW, were sold online and on sale.

View attachment 166489 View attachment 166491
https://live.euronext.com/en/product/equities/FR0012419307-ALXP
https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/109030-33#overview
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ALPUL?CountryCode=FR
View attachment 166492 View attachment 166490

The one other thing that has me wondering and thinking, and I’ve seen many statements by many people, as to the patches that fixed, yet broke other aspects of the game, something that DTG has stated that they’re looking into what the problem is, and how it can be fixed, mainly the red light bug issue. There have been many other issues within the game, some have been patched after they were broken, and some haven't. This has led many to question, what kind of playtesting and QA/QC is being done. Because of the patches that ended up breaking part of the game. And I found the following information (screenshot in the spoiler with link to the site showing this information) could this be the reason why? That's not a lot of people…

View attachment 166493
https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/167838-40#overview

Everything I have stated here is one big question that I can't answer but I can't help but ask. I know there is a lot here. I apologize for the length but this has been on my mind and I’ve been hedging on making this post and how to, because of all the information I’ve read and seen. The one thing that has been nagging at me is the survey that many of us have completed and again I go back to the subscription service in TSC. What will they announce? Very likely, TSW5. Or, TSW with a subscription model and the long-awaited US and Japan content and maybe, just maybe, all the above and I would not be surprised if some form of online multiplayer/co-op will be announced.
Click to expand...

How long did this take you to type? You make some good points, but wow this is long.

Omnicitywife · Aug 20, 2024

AvfcWalpole7 said: ↑

You have got to be taking the ****!!!! TSW4 isn't even a year old and a new one is coming........ IM OUT, I'm now officially done with the entire franchise..... not paying AGAIN for a thforth time to fix a game I already brought 4 TIMES!!!!! (THIS IS THE COPY PASTE INCOMING FROM THE OP)
Click to expand...

We do really need a new, identical thread saying exactly that. Oh and charge 50 bucks for it.

MrSouthernDriver · Aug 20, 2024

Goodbye Forum users, the countdown has begun,

See you in the new world…

bartolomaeusz · Aug 20, 2024

SGTDRE said: ↑

know I’m a bit late to the party on this topic of what is or could be the next iteration of Train Sim World, be it 5 or not, I read through most of the posts and IMHO where DTG had made a statement of an unconfirmed leak and that they take it seriously, especially when an NDA is violated or broken and I agree it’s serious when an NDA is broken/violated, the trust has been broken and makes it hard for any company, gaming or not, to consider having any type of beta testers, seeing that this discussion is about gaming as a whole.

Over the years I have seen “NDAs be violated and information leaked” from politics to businesses and without going into the most well-known leaks that are known to many involving governments but companies as well many of those leaks have proven to be correct which I guess you can say were and are a violation of an NDA and I can only speak from my point of view from living in the states and some of the crazy politics and some of the many many “leaks” were always seem to come out on a Friday evening.

Then all the social media platforms start popping up with stories of he said-she said, he said-he said, she said-she said, they said they didn’t do it, we didn’t do it, we’re gonna get to the bottom of this as to who leaked the information and they will be held accountable, we take this very seriously, and more often than not, nothing ever comes of it or it all ends up becoming true all in a matter of time and all this time everybody's talking about whatever the leaked information was or may have been and all the conspiracy theories and I’m not one for wearing a tin foil hat.

I understand much of what I said here is a bit vague and it touches more on the politics side than gaming as a whole but this leads me back to the stated NDA that was violated by the unconfirmed leak statement by DTG. They did not actually say it was TSW5 or not just that they have a major announcement on 20 August 2024 and yet here we are, how many posts, and threads, I can't begin to say how many videos I’ve come across talking about TSW5 from across the internet.

Again, I’m not one to put on a tin foil hat but, I keep thinking about the information that was leaked and even seeing what that possible leak was is next to nothing that I can see that confirms one thing or the other. Now, those in the modding community that are part of the Epic Discord/Forums(?) where screenshots were taken from showing the next product from DTG with the secret code name that was used for the next product that is due out in September of 2024, I’ve only seen snippets of the screenshots that were taken showing code names, if you will, for lack of a better term. But, I can't help but wonder, was this truly an NDA violation? Some may say why do I question this?

This brings me to another analogy when an auto manufacturer builds a new vehicle model, it’s covered in almost like a camo-type canvas, more like a military style marpart camouflage to hide any car parts or anything to identify what type of vehicle it may be. They do this all the time, they drive the vehicle in public. Why? If it’s meant to be a hidden secret why drive around with this new vehicle model which is for the most part pretty well hidden in the body style, any markings it may have, paint color, but yet what do we all do? From the news media to the care publications, hot rod publications, anyone who’s a gearhead. And anyone else who is just interested in cars, what is everyone doing? What do we all do?

Everybody’s speculating. All kinds of speculating. All kinds of speculations. You see videos. Pictures. Everyone's talking about it. And, sometimes some of the wildest stories and speculations are stated. And when you really think about it, why are the car manufacturers doing this? For what reason? They have private test tracks. They even have private test tracks for trains. And, from what I understand, the training center that we all know and use in TSW__ is modeled after the real-world Seimens test track.

So, the only thing I can conclude, why all these different types of speculations/stories/violations of NDA are talked about in the way that they are is for what? What is the best advertisement for any company or corporation and for those corporations that are publicly traded on the stock market, what is the best advertisement they can have and not spend any money on? This is where I keep coming back to. Was this a violation of the NDA? Truly, was it?

And I question this sincerely and honestly. Not to imply anything but what are we all talking about? What has everyone talked about on this forum over the past month and a half? Multiple threads here on the forums and multiple videos talking about TSW__. And everything keeps coming back to TSW5, the conversations have pretty much died down but I wonder. I really do. And the reason why I say I really do wonder…

Those who believe in God and those who question the existence of God, will understand this statement and I’m guessing most would also understand this statement: For even God, would rather honest questioning, than blindfolded fear.

Now, some may think I’m crazy for making this statement and questioning the statement that an NDA was violated and information to TSW5 was leaked and whether DTG will re-evaluate their reliance on beta testers and that may very well be true that an NDA was violated by a beta tester or someone. But, with all the speculation that has been stated all I can think of is, what is the best advertisement that is unpaid for by any company? I don’t care what they make. And, I know myself, I made the statement months ago, that TSW5 will be the next iteration.

Just looking back at how they released TSW2, 3 & 4. That's what I’m looking back at. At the same time, I can't get that survey that many of us filled out months ago, and looking at the current Train Sim Classic models they rolled out, what 2 months ago? I may have made the statement, I don’t know if it was here on the dovetail forums, but I did state that if DTG sees this subscription model with TSC take off and be a viable product for them, they would look into it, think about, maybe not state it publicly, but look into implementing it into TSW.

This too, I stated, I will not buy into any subscription. I begrudgingly have a subscription with Xbox and I barely use it other than to watch streaming TV and even that is not that much. Maybe I’m just that old school where I’d rather buy the product and own the product. I have a good handful of games that if I had no internet I could still play the games. They don’t need to be connected to the internet 24/7/365.

So, whatever DTG does announce on the 20th of this month, will be interesting, to say the least. I would much rather see much of what is broken in TSW4 fixed, patched, and corrected. There is plenty that was left broken in TSW2020 as well as TSW2 & 3 and it is left the way it is. It hasn't been fixed. Is that what’s going to happen with TSW4? Because if this is the model, I don’t see myself spending more money on another iteration of TSW__ without some real consideration, some serious thought and it has to be really outstanding and, even then, I will question, why? Why should I?

Subscription? No. That is an outright, no. That is not going to happen. But at the same time, I understand. A game developer/publisher needs to stay viable in order to continue to create and provide the gaming content that we gamers would like to have and at the same time to pay the bills and make a living. And the one thing that I’ve been keeping an eye on is the value of the parent company Pullup and the subsidiaries Focus, DTG. The only thing I can think of for them to do what they are going to do and are doing is to find the best way to keep the shareholders happy.

The attached images in the spoiler are all publicly available. Links are also provided so all can see the information. I haven't looked lately but from what I have seen so far, the value has gone up a little bit. Not a lot, but it has gone up. This could be due to the number of sales that were available to all via Steam, Humble Bundle, epic, or wherever else the products, TSW, were sold online and on sale.

View attachment 166489 View attachment 166491
https://live.euronext.com/en/product/equities/FR0012419307-ALXP
https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/109030-33#overview
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ALPUL?CountryCode=FR
View attachment 166492 View attachment 166490

The one other thing that has me wondering and thinking, and I’ve seen many statements by many people, as to the patches that fixed, yet broke other aspects of the game, something that DTG has stated that they’re looking into what the problem is, and how it can be fixed, mainly the red light bug issue. There have been many other issues within the game, some have been patched after they were broken, and some haven't. This has led many to question, what kind of playtesting and QA/QC is being done. Because of the patches that ended up breaking part of the game. And I found the following information (screenshot in the spoiler with link to the site showing this information) could this be the reason why? That's not a lot of people…

View attachment 166493
https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/167838-40#overview

Everything I have stated here is one big question that I can't answer but I can't help but ask. I know there is a lot here. I apologize for the length but this has been on my mind and I’ve been hedging on making this post and how to, because of all the information I’ve read and seen. The one thing that has been nagging at me is the survey that many of us have completed and again I go back to the subscription service in TSC. What will they announce? Very likely, TSW5. Or, TSW with a subscription model and the long-awaited US and Japan content and maybe, just maybe, all the above and I would not be surprised if some form of online multiplayer/co-op will be announced.
Click to expand...

If there were real consequences for violating NDAs, it wouldn't happen as much

Jpantera · Aug 20, 2024

bartolomaeusz said: ↑

If there were real consequences for violating NDAs, it wouldn't happen as much
Click to expand...

The laws in many places are way behind the curve, I'm not advocating breaking NDAs but ultimately many who do care little for consequences. That's in comparison to recent UK reports on people getting jail time for posting fake facts leading to disorder. Those people did it wide open on social media as opposed to leaking stuff which is done behind online handles and VPNs.

On a more topical note I wish DTG and well with its new release which will probably be lapped up by the silent majority. Those of us on here wanting the West Highland in the 80s or the Estonian goods line network will probably be left behind as usual.

Spikee1975 · Aug 20, 2024

NDA falls under civil, not criminal law, as it's a private contract between the tester and the company. It's of course different from state affairs, where leaks can pose a serious risk on the country's security and possibly harm lives.

The comparison with cars don't match, DTG didn't showcase their developments in public. The liveries for these are for confusing the camera autofocus and obstructing details.

gwrfan#3416 · Aug 20, 2024

2-3 more pages till we can claim every 3 days there has been a another page.

Monder · Aug 20, 2024

Blacknred81 said: ↑

A broken image?
Click to expand...

Very DTG-like from me But no, was supposed to work, maybe the edit did the job?

SGTDRE · Aug 20, 2024

AvfcWalpole7 said: ↑

How long did this take you to type? You make some good points, but wow this is long.
Click to expand...

Been holding it in But my daughter helped me she can type better than Southpaw...

MrSouthernDriver · Aug 20, 2024

Some Avengers Music there.

1 hour to go…

A new age is beginning…

krenz.christoph · Aug 20, 2024

I'm getting the torches ready ...

hyperlord · Aug 20, 2024

krenz.christoph said: ↑

I'm getting the torches ready ...
Click to expand...

Where did I leave the pitchforks yet again ..?

krenz.christoph · Aug 20, 2024

hyperlord said: ↑

Where did I leave the pitchforks yet again ..?
Click to expand...

Have you checked the shed?

AvfcWalpole7 · Aug 20, 2024

Just under 20 mins, we all ready to be disappointed?

25262 · Aug 20, 2024

AvfcWalpole7 said: ↑

Just under 20 mins, we all ready to be disappointed?
Click to expand...

Never been more ready.

richtayls · Aug 20, 2024

I wonder if they'll put the TSW stuff at the end of the stream, just to prolong the agony.

[UK] Alien Baltan · Aug 20, 2024

krenz.christoph said: ↑

I'm getting the torches ready ...
Click to expand...

I've got the placards nailed together and ready to be written on with slogans of everyone's choosing

pauliesc · Aug 20, 2024

richtayls said: ↑

I wonder if they'll put the TSW stuff at the end of the stream, just to prolong the agony.
Click to expand...

And now onto Train Sim World. We've some amazing things planned for you, tune into our September roadmap in 3 weeks time to find out the specifics. [Stream ends]

krenz.christoph · Aug 20, 2024

richtayls said: ↑

I wonder if they'll put the TSW stuff at the end of the stream, just to prolong the agony.
Click to expand...

It takes time to get one to boil ^^

AvfcWalpole7 · Aug 20, 2024

pauliesc said: ↑

And now onto Train Sim World. We've some amazing things planned for you, tune into our September roadmap in 3 weeks time to find out the specifics. [Stream ends]
Click to expand...

This honestly would not surpise me.

TSW Nathan · Aug 20, 2024

In 10 mins we'll look back at this thread thinking "How stupid were we"

sunscreen#8305 · Aug 20, 2024

Keep us posted. I'm in a supermarket carpark waiting for mission control, so going to miss it..

antwerpcentral · Aug 20, 2024

So this topic was more like Statler and Waldorf building up to the next Dovetail Direct? Never expected this crowd to be counting down as well

castorfiber#6451 · Aug 20, 2024

This thread has 119 pages, I think DTG might soon say to us "enough is enough is enough"

krenz.christoph · Aug 20, 2024

I'm still in the office ... so I might watch this this evening.

AvfcWalpole7 · Aug 20, 2024

The stream is making weird noises

[UK] Alien Baltan · Aug 20, 2024

As expected, TSW5.

antwerpcentral · Aug 20, 2024

It's happening!!!! Train Sim World 5 is coming!!!! Wooooohooooo! Everybody cheering!

AvfcWalpole7 · Aug 20, 2024

TSW5 announced oh great.

MrSouthernDriver · Aug 20, 2024

FREE UPDATE, I REPEAT, FREE UPGRADE!!

AvfcWalpole7 · Aug 20, 2024

Ok that 30 day thing sounds ok

krenz.christoph · Aug 20, 2024

Finally! Free Starter Pack!

AvfcWalpole7 · Aug 20, 2024

Yeah its to MK isnt it.

deeuu#6908 · Aug 20, 2024

I've been calling for a free base version for I don't know how long.

AvfcWalpole7 · Aug 20, 2024

390 is not included

redballonguy · Aug 20, 2024

ok dtg free update
less hate

MYG92 · Aug 20, 2024

Page:

samuelpower2001 · Aug 20, 2024

AvfcWalpole7 said: ↑

390 is not included
Click to expand...

Must be payware

west coastway trains · Aug 20, 2024

here we go again

smugstarlord#4202 · Aug 20, 2024

I was a tad excited. Only to think, man this is utter LOVE yet again

MrSouthernDriver · Aug 20, 2024

Thank you DTG, for not locking this behind a paywall. That’s a major W

eldomtom2 · Aug 20, 2024

I'm waiting to reserve applause for the free upgrade until we find out more about those "core features" that will be missing from it.

MYG92 · Aug 20, 2024

Flixtrain was an unexpected addition lol.

redballonguy · Aug 20, 2024

eldomtom2 said: ↑

I'm waiting to reserve applause for the free upgrade until we find out more about those "core features" that will be missing from it.
Click to expand...

no way

TSW Nathan · Aug 20, 2024

WOOO! PENDO LOOKS AWESOME

TSW Nathan · Aug 20, 2024

Live map looks cool

TSW Nathan · Aug 20, 2024

YAASSSS! GAURD MODE

TSW Nathan · Aug 20, 2024

Fast travel and route hopping??

krenz.christoph · Aug 20, 2024

Conductor Mode gives me a little bit of silver lining on TSW 5 ...

SeventeenF · Aug 20, 2024

So, with the Deluxe edition you used to get: 3 new routes with all-new trains, 2 all-new locos, and an upgraded route.
You now get: 3 new routes with mostly reused trains, 1 all-new loco and 1 reskin, and a copy-pasted route.

And a price increase. Yeah, there's blatantly not enough value to justify it. Oh well.

Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 2 Year Anniversary

Is it time, I locked this thread?!?!

Yes

No

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