Just Trains Making Wcml Over Shap And Br Class 87

Not sure about a 56 vs. a Class 86. As much as I would like to see the 56 in game it would have minimal use on the WCML and the Class 86 far more useful. And if they announced it was a Class 81, 82, 83 or 85 (84’s gone by then) roarer, I’d pop open the champagne bottle.

 

Kingmoor Yard was a shadow of its former self by the mid 80's, having never reached its full potential.
Certainly the humps had been discontinued by the early 80s too, and a lot of the tracks had been uplifted.

The old signal boxes and control towers were in situ until demolition in the 2000s.
I remember going with L12 ballast from Carnforth, and moving the points over with air operated foot pedals, which was a novelty.
As a driver, I was based in Kingmoor with EWS and DB. All the Network Rail ballast services are marshalled in and out of the north end yards, B Group etc.

 

All this talk of Kingmoor brings back memories. When we used to go spotting at Carlisle Citadel in the early eighties, a friend and I would sometimes hitch a cab ride (usually a 47) from the northern end bay platforms up to Kingmoor diesel depot to visit and get what was on-shed (such was the advantage of being a railway employee). The shedmaster would let us walk around, and there were always a few 25s and 40s to be "copped" as well as "boring" stuff like 47s etc. Carlisle station itself was a constant procession of classes 81-87 (save for the 84s which had gone by then) punctuated by the occasional 26 or 27 which worked the Dumfries line trains. Good times!

 

25>86>APT

Although I would hope for all three at some point

 

I used to have a house next to the line in Neitherfield in the early 2000s and had the 60 and trundle of tanks in the early hours every night along that line.

 

Speaking of the Class 86 do you mean the 1970s-early 2010s WCML South Milton Keynes to Euston loco? If Yes then it needs two paints WCML over Shap and Freightliner Green for WCML South. I wonder if WCML needs a 1970s-1980s timetable complete with a Roarer

 

Quick thought on the use of the Class 101 DMU. We don’t know the exact year this is set, but by 1989 Newton Heath actually had a fair number alongside the residual Class 108’s. By then, the Class 105 Cravens had gone. There was also a large allocation of Class 142’s at Newton Heath by that point though I’m not sure whether they made it to Oxenholme for the Windermere branch, though certainly got on to the Furness Line and presumably Morecambe.

So if I had to make a guess, we will see Pacers to and from Preston - Lancaster - Morecambe - Barrow, with the 101’s empty to and from Oxenholme for Windermere, covering the Skipton services if included from Lancaster to Carnforth and coming in and out at Carlisle on Maryport Line services.

 

How hard will the locos be to grasp. Are they difficult. Heard the class 87 has notch up and down stuff.

 

They'll require more thinking ahead then your run-of-the-mill EMU (as with any loco) but it shouldn't be too difficult so long as you don't put too much power down too quickly. From what I've seen in cab rides, most of the time you can approach stations from around 40 MPH and stop comfortably, although I wouldn't recommend it as a habit.


This video is a cab view from Penrith to Oxenholme and should give you an idea of the driving style of the 87.

 

We already have tap changer locos in TSW with the DB 110 and 103, so the process is very similar. At low speed you tap up a notch or two at a time then once you get going you can use run up just keep the needles from going too far into the yellow zone. Taking power off is the reverse, if you want to pull back a little, tap down two or three notches, otherwise run down and return to hold once you reach the desired setting. You should always run down rather than go straight to off, to avoid damaging the electrical systems.

 

It would be a nice touch if we could go into the tea room at Carnforth Station (assuming it still existed at the time the route was set). This was featured heavily in the film Brief Encounter. Sadly, there will be no steam so we won’t get any smuts in our eyes.

 

Would be good if the ScotRail liveried 47s come with mini ploughs

 

No bankers at Tebay

 

Really hyped for this route. Spent sometime running the 47s on BPO as a gap fill until the route is released. Ultimately, would be a 90 for me though they only began to be built a year after the route is set. Personally, I would hope it’s another electric locomotive as I do feel TSW has a fair share of diesel locomotives appropriate to that era already but even then if they did release one, it would be a welcome addition.

 

In the period it's set, if it were to come, the 86's would either be blue or Intercity exec liveried. Exactly the same as the included 87.
Freightliner green came much much later (doesn't stop anyone playing with the livery editor I may add).

 

There were more 143's knocking around at the Carlisle end in 89 if I'm being pedantic, both Tyne and Cumbria coast. Slam door tended to be the exception. Not that I care what we get as that about as negative as I can be on the route!
It will make a change to be in the 87 and race the M6 motorway traffic through the Lune Gorge and over Shap to the bridge at Lowther, it's certainly going to put a different perspective than the back seat of Dad's Jag!!

 

If I remember right. The Mk3 DVT's came out in 1988/1989, so it would be close but I don't mind the run-rounds because I find it fun when its done right.

 

I think the class 108's were dominant on the Cumbrian coast line certainly until 1991. Heaton had an allocation of them with the window bars.

143's quite likely were on the Newcastle to Carlisle service, although by 1989 Heaton had some 142's, mostly ex Laira Skippers.

 

This route it certainly going to be epic, but seeing the screenshot of a class 40 with some mark 2's does concern me.

I am likely in the minority but this is the period I have most interest in and personally I don't want to see class 40's appearing regularly on a route set after they were withdrawn. The 45 would be even worse as they were rarely seen on this part of the WCML as they were mainly for the Midland division of LMR. Every time I run Blackpool a class 40 appears.

I know gameplay is a major factor but it is supposed to be a simulator.

As for a new loco, a class 86 would be the obvious choice. I would be disappointed if it's th APT as they were pretty much out of service by 1986 and hardly regular performers.

The electrically hauled freights need a non class 87 loco for them.

 

Think I will take a bit of historical licence to thrash a 40 over Shap!

They certainly turned out on seasonal relief trains from Scotland to Blackpool when there wasn’t enough AC power to round. Think before judging we need confirmation from someone at JT the exact year in which the route is set.

 

I’d totally forgotten that - it was decided at some point (I’m not sure what year) that stock with drop-light windows running on the Cumbrian Coast must be fitted with window bars, because the Maryport & Carlisle Railway built their bridges and tunnels to a smaller than usual loading gauge, so the clearances were very tight.

I lived up there right at the end of the 108 era - so travelled on just a few of them on the coast, before 156s took over. Then 142s and 153s arrived a little later.

While I loved the 108s, I had to admit that from a passenger point of view, the 156s were a huge step forward. The 142s not so much…

 

I agree on the 45s. A 45 on the WCML just doesn’t feel right.

I’d like to have the 40s though. Whatever date a route is theoretically set, I find I can adjust the date a bit in my mind depending on what I’m driving, without losing the immersion. It may be the reason I’ve managed to get a bit more out of West Cornwall than many people. In my mind it’s set in the mid 80s, with blue diesels and 101s, and a few newly introduced 150s. I don’t know too much about the railways of that area, which helps a bit!

 

I agree, the 86 definitely makes the most sense when considering what stock was used at the time. The only problem could be that it is seen as to similar to the 87, but for realism and timetable purposes the 86 would be greatly appreciated.

According to the Just Trains website the route is "Based in 1986", the same as their Blackpool route. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the class 40 showing up, but a class 90 with a MK3 DVT would be a stretch.

 

There were certainly peaks at B'ham New Street (NE-SW runs) and occasionally at Carlisle (Ncle-Carl), not sure about the rest.

 

Thanks for that. According to Wikipedia the last scheduled use of a Class 40 on loco hauled passenger service was in early 1985. After that just freight and railtours. So yes, modellers’ license definitely required but I will take it.

 

Yes, I don’t think of them as straying onto Preston-Carlisle though. They’re really before my time, however, so I’m only going on what I’ve seen in photos.

Still, if they do turn up on the JT route, I’ll just work on the basis that one has strayed from its normal locale due to a failure!

I’ve said it before, but if I was a route developer, I wouldn’t specify a year. I’d just say “mid-80s” or something. It gets you out of loads of difficulties…

 

In fairness, POB is already anachronistic - there are three versions of the Pacer, but by rights only one of them should be present on the route, the 1985-1991 version. Obviously all three versions (not considering liveries here) do sub in however, but the route is richer for it

 

Great pictures. I think JT have now tried every possible way of picturing an 87 without being able to see its pantograph. For that one on the bridge they obviously felt they’d reached the end of the road and gave up. Perhaps it’s failed and is awaiting rescue?

 

IIRC someone from Dovetail said that JT took these pics before the overhead wires programming had been put in place so the trains were running pantograph down. The system is in place now though, so new screenshots should show the trains with pantographs raised.

 

TSW 5 is gonna have a feature that allows you to disable certain layers you don't want to see, so if all goes well you should be able to disable 40s and 45s from spawning if you don't want to see them.

 

No. You will be able to disable layers, but you will not have any control over substitution.

 

From what I understand in the FAQ it says you can disable certain loco's as well. I could be mistaken though.

 

I thought that too but it appears that might not be the case. Trouble with disabling layers is that you might still want to see the layer.

I realise I am not the majority in this case so most won't agree.

I have yet to see 45 on the Blackpool route yet a 40 always turns up.

 

I have only ever seen the original style Pacer sub in so don't have an issue with that.

As an aside I thought I read this route was 1989 but now I read it's 1986 like Blackpool. It won't be quite as jarring but I still wish there was a way to control substitutions.

When anacronystic trains have subbed in on modern routes there is often disquiet, even down to the wrong sub class of Electrostar. I don't see this is any different.

 

Would a BR Class 60 fit on this route? Or would that be too new? I would like something new for heavy freight. I know they were built in 1989 to 1993.

 

I spotted a 45 at Kirkham Tip the other day but don’t see much of them. Seen 40s from time to time though.

I believe JT stated at the time of Preston-Blackpool’s release that they took a little creative license with 40/45s appearing but with a lower chance of substitution so will assume same applies to this route.

 

Splitting hairs, but it would be nice if one day JT modified the 47/4 to a 47/0 (or even a 47/3) for the oil and parcels trains. As an old campaigner it’s kind of jarring to see ETH-equipped 47s on freight.

 

I understand a bit of creative licence but for me the class 40 appears a little too often.

Anyway it is a moot point I guess. The route will still be amazing however.

 

Yes agreed, especially as the railfreight grey was starting to be applied by 1986.

 

am i right in thinking its the mark3s loco hualed version we are getting for this realse

 

It looks that way, though the extent TBC in particular if they are doing any sleeping cars.

 

thanks makes a diference from the mark1 and 2s

 

Play the DLC with DB BR111 loco. It's very similar to how the 87 will drive. You do need to think ahead more than a standard tap changer like a 103 or 110.

 

45’s are definitely legit (south of Preston, so just !) for this DLC’s period, there was an afternoon service from Edinburgh & Glasgow to M/cr Vic & L’pool Lime st. It joined/split at Carstairs & Preston respectively, the Liverpool portion was often a Class 45 (possibly borrowed from Trans Pennine duties or part of a diagram ??) & reached Liverpool by Parkside Junc. to access the Chat Moss line as opposed to via Bryn/St Helen’s.

 

Just wondering, did the 87s have a nickname?
They were all around when I was bashing around Brum and luckily I classed them for haulage but never heard of a nickname that I can remember.

 

None that I know, To me they were always known by their given name eg 012 Couer de Lion, 027 Wolf of Badenoch

 

I hope we get freight services with the class 87 with this dlc

 

I remember them being referred to as Electric-Scots as they were built for the Anglo-Scottish services after the wires were extended from Preston to Glasgow. I don't know if they had a "spotters" nickname. They likely did.

 

They are quite a bit more difficult compared to other trains if you don't know what you're doing. They're nothing like the modern EMUs or locomotives in TSW, and they're not that much like the German tap changer locos either.

Similar to the Class 142 which is more basic compared to AP's one in TS, I expect that the Class 87 would be a bit simpler and more forgiving than the AP version in TS.

What does make me wonder is why they didn't do a Class 86, but I assume that the loco pack they're making will be that. It would have been better if they were released the other way around since the 86 is more of a general-purpose locomotive. I also hope that they'll include the executive livery, but I doubt it.

No, too modern. On the other hand a Class 58 would work I think.