Just Trains Making Wcml Over Shap And Br Class 87

Same thing as Doomotron they are too modern they were only introduced after 1990 and from what I recall they didn't operate near carisle or preston. Most of the freight trains were 47's, 31's, 90's 86's and some class 37 no 60's.

 

I'm not sure about "more forgiving" - the stuff the AP 142 has that the TSW one doesn't aren't really moment-to-moment driving stuff.

 

Good thing about a route this big, it has way more scope for dlc. The incoming loco, whilst I suspect it would be an 86, certainly dosent have to be the last. Theres options of diesels, like the 56 more AC locos like the 85, all manner of wagons. Maybe even a Highspeed line V1 where a Valenta pack gets added for WCL, TVL and NTP service mode and seasonal services and scenarios in Shap.

 

I think this will be an exciting route to look forward too. Shap is very scenic.

 

Ticks all the boxes-
High Speed Express
Local stopper
Freight
Shunting
90 miles
An engaging loco Class 87
Immersive DMUs 101 and 142
New Wagons and Coaches
Variety of layers
Multiple liveries

 

I watch these YouTube videos quite often. I also have

I watch these YouTube videos quite often. I also have the Royal Scot DVD from Video 125 which is a good watch.

 

TSW5 has a feature where you can turn layers off. I assume you can just turn off the 40 and 45 if they bother you

 

I hope all the wagons will layer in this route. We saw already the bba / hea is appearing. There are a lot more like the pga / pca wagons, or rivets seacow / turbot wagon (even if they have something totally botched with the braking weights..its rivet, but at least for a.i or static stock.)

Of course the jt version of the tanker wagon from preston blackpool is there too.

 

JT take my money! Screenshots are awesome, new desktop backgrounds incoming!

 

It seems you can turn a layer off, but that removes it completely so it doesn't appear at all. You can't remove substitutions, i.e. individual locos.

 

Oh, that would have been much more useful. I am unsure of the actual use of this feature in a widespread way now, though must admit I would be stretching my mind to allow both 40s and 45s to appear. Didn't know this section of track well enough for it to feel wrong!

 

The Thames-Clyde Express, which ran down the Settle-Carlisle to St Pancras, was Peak-hauled from the end of steam until its demise, but it barely overlapped with the Glasgow electrification and if it ever ventured down the line to Preston, it had lost its way quite badly

 

Question for the JT team, if any are hiding on the forums. Will approach control and/or calling on signals be simulated?
On Blackpool Branches approach control only works through a "Go Via" waypoint, seen below at Kirkham South Jn. Which can be quite unrealistic, say if you are hurtling towards Blackpool North at 50 MPH, and the signal clears off anyway. Or the reverse when you approach from a longer distance out at 15 MPH and the signal won't clear until you are 20 ft from it, by which point you've almost stopped.

I believe calling on signals are simulated on this route so it shouldn't be too difficult to carry this forward.
Also, what is the performance like compared to Blackpool Branches?

 

I may have completely lost the plot here but I remember when I were in my mid 20s, so roughly when this route is set, if anything later, I were driving up the M6 with my son in an MG I had at the time, and I am sure I remember the road really did follow the railway closely at various points for decent distances, which will be interesting to see in the sim. Like I say I am not certain it were this section, may well have been south of Preston, but were certainly in this area of the country and it were rather amazing to see. I do like sections such as this where road and rail run alongside each other, so do hope it is on this section of the route, rather than further south.

Edit: After re-reading, I just want to confirm that the bit about driving on the M6 did happen, I am just unsure about which section this memory of it is from. I haven't lost the plot quite that much!

 

The M6 runs close by near Tebay also near Penrith in the Calthwaite area.

 

So I am thinking of the right section, thanks mate. I do hope the traffic looks like traffic of the 80s!

 

The M6 runs parallel just north of Preston towards Lancaster. They also intertwine around Tebay.

 

Just drove the route on TS Classic and it´s a great choice... JT are giving us a long route and even including a branch to Morecambe. Windermere branch is not included, from what I´ve read. They could have absolutly smashed it out of the park by adding that in. I know, that´s asking alot... but to go those extra 10 miles would have really completed the picture.

 

Agree. I know it’s a bit gimme, gimme but I would have liked to see the Windermere branch represented. I know it’s another 10 miles but relatively straightforward and a logical offshoot from the route.

But hey ho, still very pleased with what we’re getting.

 

The hatchback car featured heavily in period routes looks freelance to me. I do feel there should be a variety of toad traffic. Roads were colourful and varied back then not the sea of dull coloured identikit cars we have now.

 

Kudos to the developer who’s brave enough to put an Austin Allegro in the traffic!

 

Triumph Spitfire for me!

 

I´d be willing to pay more for that. It would be totally fine to sell a complete package like this above normal price.
The old Windermere Workshop extension is also a bit underwhelming in 2024. Would love to see it on TSW with proper and nice scenery.

 

Agree £35 to include the Windermere branch would have been fine be.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to be paying £40 for this route as it is. 90 miles!

 

Yes please please add Windermere. No signals, no points, no passing loops. "Just" scenery. I realise it's a lot of scenery but it would add so much to the route and make it worth £40 easily.

 

I’m going to be contentious and suggest leaving Windermere for a later extension pack (hopefully including the Coast line, at least the Carlisle to Workington bit), as I can’t wait for this to be released

 

Lets just hope that traffic levels on t' M6 are a bit more realistic as it seems a tad unrealistic to have a barely used M6.

 

In terms of price. I don't mind because this route has a sentimental connection to me as I used to ride this route behind the Class 86/87 and 90's back in the 1990's with my student card to chase down Class 47's back in them days. Oh and HST Valenta thrash on the VTXC sets is a sound to behold. Either way. I am excited for this route in its 1980's form.

 

Agreed, although this section of the M6 isn’t hugely busy in real life, particularly North of Lancaster. I’m a bit surprised they went to the expense of making it 6 lanes. 4 would be adequate, and less of an eye-sore in the beautiful scenery (the railway, of course, compliments the landscape perfectly and is beautiful in itself - as we all know).

 

I’m probably in a minority in not being too bothered about the Windermere branch. In the era in question it just ran as a shuttle, so was operationally a separate railway to the WCML, and not a particularly interesting one - fairly slow, with no signals or pointwork. Making the spectacular scenery to a good standard would have been quite a task, as would creating the substantial town of Kendal.

The Cumbrian coast would be OK, but a bit DMU dominated and with everything stopping everywhere (pretty much) not much variety to be had. I think Lancaster - Barrow would be more interesting, or Carlisle - Glasgow via Dumfries with a 26 or 27.

 

ah, now I understand why JT did not bother making it. So no through trains to Preston or anything like that. That puts it in a different light. Thanks.

 

British Steel Workington, Workington Port, Albright and Wilson, Dalston oil terminal as well as Sellafield all had large amounts of freight traffic traffic at the time therefore I'd argue the northern half of the CC would be more interesting than the lower half.

 

I don't want to be 'that guy', but Tebay to Shap isn't that beautiful, steep or interesting.
As railway climbs go, it's a tiddler at 5.5 miles at 1 in 75. In the 87, you'll be up and over in 4 minutes or so.
The moorland will flash by but diesel hauled freight will be more of a slog, but then it's the other gradients on the line which may prove to be a challenge. Carnforth to Grayrigg bank has tree sap and leaf fall to contend with too.

As for the Windermere line, it's basically a siding with zero redeeming features. Rolling through the countryside to a small station with no views of the lake itself. I never liked going down there on railtours and sandite duties, Trust me.

 

No through trains (unless a stock move to or from Manchester at the start or end of the day was actually run as a passenger train - I don’t know). There were, as now, no run-round facilities at Windermere, so only DMUs could run on the branch. As the DMUs which operated in the region at the time were unsuitable for longer distance travel, the concept of through trains to Windermere was unattractive. It was only with the arrival of Sprinters, particularly the 158s, that it became a realistic option again.

 

Workington had loads of interesting traffic, absolutely! Barrow had next to nothing in comparison, unless you count 105s and the occasional 104 on top of the bog standard 108s

Before the steelworks closed there was a lot of stuff coming into Workington from Redcar (double-headed 37s or 31s, the occasional 46), a load of local freight (mostly 25s and 40s, some 47/0s, with the occasional 26 or 27 if the booked 25 had died), the evening TPO South (a 47/4), plenty of shunting (we had three 08s in the early 80s, down to one by the end of the decade), and those nuclear flask trains that we were always a bit leery of (usually 40s or 47/3s)…

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course, but I always liked the scenery up there.

In terms of the severity of the climb to Shap, you’re right that an 87 makes short work of it, but that goes for almost any mainline gradient for a 5,000hp loco. As UK mainline gradients go, 5.5 miles at 1 in 75 is significant. There aren’t many climbs on the WCML, ECML, GWML, MML or GEML which are close to it (in fact, are there any to match it? Beattock?)

 

Agreed on freight. I don’t drive freight much in TSW as they don’t usually have proper schedules, but for those who do, Workington provided plenty of variety. I mainly remember 31s in that area.

 

Beattock is a slog at 15 miles, averaging 1 in 67 or so, tree lined, curvy. One day we will get that climb hopefully.
WCMLoS has some excellent "Steam Challenges" for you to do lcyrrjp, i'll be investing more time driving the steamers using your recipe for realism!

 

I think we should be grateful that were getting a 90 mile route!

 

Having driven both Preston - Carlisle and Carlisle - Glasgow C in TSC I always found Preston - Carlisle more interesting. I think having 3 intermediate stations which a high proportion of trains stop at, helps. However I also suspect I’m biased as I’ve travelled over Preston - Carlisle far more in real life.

I had a look at the gradient profiles this morning and you’re right, of course - Beattock is much the more challenging climb. I couldn’t find anything on any of the other ‘top tier’ mainlines to match either Shap or Beattock though - unless you count the South Devon banks but I’m not sure I consider the Great Western West of Newton Abbot to be in the ‘top tier’ of mainlines (I may come in for some criticism here…).

As you’d expect, I had been thinking about steam challenges on Preston - Carlisle. Our usual source doesn’t provide any logs of Jubilees over Shap, but there are a few runs with Clans and Duchesses which might still provide some interesting comparisons. I suspect our ‘de-rated’ Jubilee is going to find Shap pretty hard going, but we’ll see!

 

In 1986 Carlisle Kingmoor depot still had an allocation of DMU's, class 108's. I would imagine they probably would have serviced the Windermere branch.

I agree with what you are saying about it just being basically a siding and probably not worth the development time. However I suppose it is part of the train drivers experience, the branch line shuttle alongside express passenger, alongside freight. Then again of course we have the Morecombe branch for that.

 

We do, and the Blackpool South branch also offers the DMU-on-a-single-track-branch experience. I enjoy it, but find it lacks longevity, as there’s no prospect of any variation through signal checks or seeing any AI traffic (90% of the time when I play BPO, I choose a Blackpool North train).

 

This route should have been done a long time ago.

 

Yes I gravitate towards Blackpool North slightly more, although it is over too quickly.

 

I am glad it weren't as it means JT can do it now!

 

This Route is the real WCML we got in TSW from the Quality

 

I seem to run Blackpool South a lot just to drive the class 101.

Any excuse to drive on a route with that manual gearbox gets my vote.

 

I was thinking that if the Carlisle to Glasgow is done, doing it in BR Blue would be great, especially at Carstairs where you used to have the trains splitting. on the Glasgow/Edinburgh services.

Also hoping there will be some diesel to electric and vice versa at Preston.

 

Find myself doing Blackpool South more - just love going past the incredibly modelled Pleasure Beach.