Wcml South - Not Good Enough

You should probably hit that big "support" button on the top right corner of this forum and make a ticket.

 

That's the same version I am seeing, no idea why the screen is blue when mine is grey, but as someone suggested above could just be how a camera interpreted it, either that or there's some kind of colour change option I've never found in the settings.

Random idea, but are you using an M.2 SSD? If so try running the game off of the other option (i.e. if using internal, use M.2 SSD instead, if using M.2 SSD then try using internal). I had a really weird problem with Gran Turismo 7 that it crashed constantly using the internal but worked fine when using the M.2 SSD. It didn't make any sense but moving it worked so I just got on with playing it at that point.

I haven't played Bakerloo for ages, so maybe it's a problem on that route.

It's good that you are submitting all the error reports, I remember devs on another game commenting that Sony got on their case when they had a lot of crashes submitted, so making sure we report all crashes definitely helps, both in devs learning where the game crashes, and in alterting Sony to any problem games on their platform.

 

I honestly don't know why high speed routes are in the

I suspect given rivet's reputation here they'd try and keep it hush hush.

 

She is sitting in the M.2 ssd. The camera picks it up as blue rather than grey, might be an oled thing?

 

I have worked in the games industry years ago. And in my experience the people at the top of the company will be demanding a game is released when its half finished. In my experience the devs know about the state of the content but higher ups want stuff out asap so they have zero time for real bug fixes and to fix the broken trophies so errors are made. They need to slow down releases to get stuff up to standard but what is going to happen is they have a never ending amount of new content which is broken and the situation is going to keep getting worse!

 

I would happily take a couple less DLC releases over the next year if it meant squashing a lot of bugs.

 

That is very strange as well. I mostly see 4 cars on the Chase line (Wolverhampton to Walsall or Rugeley Trent Valley to International)
And It is mostly 8 cars, very rare 12 cars are mainly on Weekends I am pretty sure if something big is going on.
Also Annoyed that we only have 1 variant of the 350 when we should have all 4 tbh.

 

Yea that really does bug me. Rugby would of been nice 81 miles. New street would of been something else. Again, UK routes always getting the lowest of miles. JT are now performing the longest UK route around 100 miles.

 

ROFLOL.

And Rivet would end up giving us a Ewbank carpet sweeper instead.

I still think all work on core updates has been paused to bring me my full on buffet and restaurant car service mode. Where, just like those little games on the iPad etc, you have to create increasingly complex meal orders to keep the customers happy. Though ISTR there wasn’t much complex about a Travellers Fare menu. Two or three sandwich types, Mr Kipling apple or fruit pie, pork pie, various biscuits, MaxPax tea or coffee and Coca Cola!

 

Yeah, you are right, it will just get worse and part of that is budget, they are trying to squeeze as much as they can out of small dev team in a short space of time. Kinda has an Atari /ET vibe to it. Players need to stop pre ordering and buying the game and give the devs a chance to catch up.

 

Catering started getting complicated when ICOBS started serving the Croq monsieur...that would need an expert level DLC.

 

No chance, money money money for DLCs, but they dont get paid to fix bugs, so which wins every time?

 

The problem a lot of these sim games face as they progress and get more players is that there comes a point where a large portion of the player base doesn’t care about the "sim" part and just wants gameplay. Therefore it makes sense from a marketing standpoint to stop spending dev money and time on the realism aspects and focus on gimmicks and gameplay stuff. Let's be brutally honest here, DTG could release a 390 with copy pasted sounds and physics from the 377 and it would still sell like hot cakes. So what’s the incentive to actually spend money and time on stuff like realistic sounds, physics, and intricate functionality?

Other sim games have experienced the same thing, but the difference here is that DTG essentially have a monopoly on train sims. There’s a few other niche train sim products out there, but DTG still dominates the market. Luckily, TSW does have a public editor now, so there will always be third parties that will create and release ultra realistic content. (The 101 is a good example of that).

 

The Toilet bundle is only available as part of deluxe pack. Clean 20 toilets and you will unlock a Sanitation trophy.

 

Because JT have a reputation to uphold. they've earned that reputation and want to keep it. Throw in some passion for the material and you've got yourself a winning dev.

 

JT want to produce something special. The extra detail such as loco names and liveries added to proper attention to stuff like headlights shows that they can deliver accuracy and entertain. At the expense of lifts and other gimmicks....

 

I've said this a plenty of times already, but it's baffled me why DTG have been so cagey and reluctant to answer such a simple question about the 350/1. It will not be able to fulfil the entire timetable without duplications (which would not be the end of the world, but its a minor niggle at those of us who notice such things).

Many players like myself recognise, and are completely satisfied with the 350/1 being modelled and featured, we don't want any change to it, or for DTG to add any of the sub class differences. What we are simply asking is for them to allow higher number ranges on the existing model to bulk out the time table and so duplications won't happen.

It happened with the 377/4 being numbered in the 377/1 range with no issue or reluctance discussing the fact.

 

I'm sticking with it and not asking for a refund. Controversial I know but I think this route will get fixed and at some point in the next month the usual legends will make mods for the route and possibly even the timetable. When fixed this will be a great little route. Whether the fixes are from DTG or modders, I don't really care.

However, I do have the Steam PC version. I'd have asked for a refund if on console because waiting for fixes on those seems to be a nightmare.

 

It shouldn't have to be up to the community to fix DTG's mess.

 

I honestly think it is disgraceful tbh, 5th Series of TSW and we still are getting this. I am very happy we are getting WCML but I expected it to be to Rugby. But I all understand it was for the 350. We just don't seem to get a longer enough Run with our British High Speed Trains which is a very shame yet Germany does. Like I keep saying DTG should be aiming higher not lower. I really like the DTG team but the way they have kept silent from all the feedback and constructive criticism is not great from our Point of View.
I ain't refunding it but they will and should make improvements but what we been told is that it was a Old build, why on earth you would use an old build to promote a highly requested product is beyond me to be honest.
Do hope it is an Old Build though.
But I am very excited just hope we get the newest build.

 

Matt said on the stream that the build they were previewing was not the latest one. Whether you believe that or not is up to you!

 

Yes, in the stream

None that exists

Probably not possible to put a number on it, but consider that Skyhook have done outsourced work for DTG on TSW since TSW2020, and its not unlikely that Rivet have also done outsourced work for DTG routes

 

I completely agree with you.

I'm not cancelling my pre order, it will definitely be a good route with bug fixes. I have more confidence in DTG fixing this either before, or as a post release update as the issues have caused a storm and it's not something they can run away from. I've got confidence in DTG and just hope they don't let me down on this one. I hope they understand the criticism is completely valid, and might not seem it, but it comes from a good place as we have seen what they are capable of and hold them to their previous works standard.

 

The class 710 timetable is the big thing for me, if that is addressed and improved (ideally with the 710 stop markers added to platforms too) then that'll be a big step in the right direction in my view

 

Markers addressed in the stream, "no plans"

 

well that's concerning then! Adding something like stop markers on platforms is a relatively small thing, but would be a big win for the route, so that's a real shame if no plans are there to add them.

while i don't mind the route is Euston to Milton Keynes and not beyond, it really does need a full and immersive timetable to make this route work in my opinion, and having 90 minute gaps on the overground route instead of 15 minutes (plus more gaps than expected on the underground trains) just isn't right for me

 

Let's hope when staff frequent the forums tomorrow they take a further read of this thread and reconsider some of the feedback and hopefully put out a further statement just to reassure players. I think it would definitely be in their best interests.

 

Does it really matter what build it is, during the stream when the guard mode failed Matt admitted there are bugs when it crashed. So, that is what we getting come release, bugs!

 

Im wondering if its possible for them to revisit the issues if the route has come from a third party. IF the contractual obligations have been met (and I have no idea how that even works for software or if the route was made externally), then it may be consequential.

I hasten to add this is just a thought and I have no idea if its a thing or not. Maybe if anyone here works in software and has experience of this kind of thing they might be able to answer that one..?

 

Comment of the week!

 

I feel most of you, but majority here have to remember one crucial aspect here. Most of you who are very active on these forums are either train enthusiasts or actual train operators, who seem to know all the ins and outs of most all routes, which is both incredible and amazing. At least from what I'm picking up. I love coming in here, asking a question about something, and I get a textbook answer! That's amazing and appreciate such knowledge. That's great and a great value for anyone who wants to learn about trains, or just enjoying train simulation as a type of recreationalist.

But I'm pretty sure the group of people who are most active here are outliers in the great scheme of things (I'm thinking of the global TSW audience). As much as TSW is trying to please every single nuance you guys may have, you are not their main target group. There are about 500 people who seem to be active here, judging by voting on polls, but TSWs global market is way bigger than these forums.

Here, take me as an example. I'm most likely the perfect target group for TSW. I like trains and enjoy train simulation. Bugs on trains and routes are totally fine. Some are annoying, but it's OK, it doesn't deter me from enjoying TSW. Whether a route or a loco lacks identical inputs from the real world is not a big concern for me. I have no idea what or how the real stuff is supposed to be, but assume that it's mostly accurate. I find the scenery in general to be amazing, and so far I've enjoyed just about all trains and routes I've played (the US, UK and Germany). I own TSW2020, TSW2 and TSW4, all best editions. On top of this I also own additional DLC content, routes and locos. I'd say I've spent between £400-500 on TSW since I first bought TSW2020. I don't think I've ever spent this much money on any other game genre (I have on FromSoftware and the Soulsborne series, but that's because I collect the official guides which are collectibles) and continue to spend money here. Why? Because majority of players are recreational players who just enjoy playing train simulation, like me. As much as I appreciate most of your guys input, if TSW were to please this target group alone I doubt there would be any TSW. But still they listen to you guys and try to apply as much suggestions as possible.

There has to be a balance between things, and here I feel some of you guys are looking at this in a very narrow and a bit selfish way.

Just my 2 cents.

I have just shy of 800 hours across TSW2020 and TSW2. Haven't even started on TSW4. Again, the only games I've spent this much time playing is across Demons Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls Remastered, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, Elden Ring, as a total. Then at solid no. 2 is The Witcher 3 of 400 hours.

Final verdict and unpopular opinion; TSW is actually really really good!

 

It is really really good. Its like a great pair of shoes, always nice and comfy to put on. I think 99.9% of people here would agree otherwise they'd probably not be here.

I think the only hole I could pick in your argument would be the assumption that the global demographic you describe is known to DTG in terms of their wishes and desires, given they are likely silent as you describe. How can we know if they are satisfied if they never communicate that, unless the assumption is that inactivity equals satisfaction, which may be a valid assumption but without data is nevertheless an untested one.

Combine this with my own assumption in the opening sentences and we have a contradiction developing...

The people here who are vocal hopefully feel it could be better, otherwise the complaints appear odd.

 

I think the answer to this particular question lies in the DTG sales reports. I do not know whether DTG is a privately own group or whether they are owned by a publicly listed company. If they are private none of us are privy to their financial reports. If they are listed on the stock exchange via a parent subsidiary group, then it could be possible to find the financials and locate that answer.

Considering the progress they've made in mere 5 years from TSW2020 to the upcoming release of TSW5, growth in employees, I'd say they most certainly are experiencing good sales. Which would mean there are a lot of players like me out there.

 

20240118_focus_entertainment_q3_202324_en.pdf (focus-home.com)

FOCUS ENTERTAINMENT: 2024/25 first-quarter revenue of €34.2m, driven by a solid back-catalogue up sharply by 17% - MarketScreener

"This acquisition of this UK-based studio, with established owned IPs and delivering recurring revenue is aligned with Focus’ Strategy and is a step forward in moving up the value chain. Consequently, the Dovetail acquisition is expected to be somewhat accretive from a percentage margin standpoint."

I think there's probably little doubt that they have a good revenue platform. The main focus for me though is to use what little leverage I have to try to maintain a more prototypical product. The market has plenty of less simulation, more gameplay titles- Derail Valley etc, and I suppose the central point is that the niche is so narrow, a vocal minority of purists is somewhat needed..

I understand that not all are available to consoles but if one is after a simulator, or a gameplay based railway game, one does what one needs to do- buy a platform that caters for what one is after. If its a case of pandering to the central demographic of indifference, then the product itself will become indifferent. At that point it really drills down on the brand model. That might change, but atm DTG are positioning as a railway simulation towards the realistic end. If they moved away from that in pursuit of sales, it may well be successful in the short term but the brand would be in a sorry state and the reputation would nosedive. Sales would likely fall in the longer term which goes against the context of recurring revenue Id argue.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't complain or put constructive feedback out there. They do listen, from what I'm seeing and reading, but they cannot please everyone. That's simply not viable financially.

But it is correct that as long as people keep spending the need to improve bugs lessens. So there's that balance again. That means that what few people find almost a deal-breaker others find it to be just fine and go along with it. This is what I was trying to get across. And the latter group by far out weights the first.

But please DON'T get me wrong here. Having such a passionate group like yourselves is very precious and necessary, otherwise DTG wouldn't be able to become better. Who would provide feedback? I know I couldn't. I'm just a player who likes to spend a couple of hours enjoying operating trains and the scenery. I thought tsw2020 to be awesome!

I guess this very knowledgeable group could be considered DTGs anchor, or a band of two lines within which DTG will listen to you guys. But once you sort of start edging outside of those bands, that takes you into a domain where DTG cannot follow. That's because most of the money they make are outside those bands.

 

For UK companies you can also look on Companies House website:
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06751125

 

Absolutely. I cant argue with you there, and very kindly put.

 

I’m not a financial expert but does Focus’ acquisition of Dovetail mean more pockets to be lined with the profits, which in turn means less margin on each project, and why it’s even more important that deadlines be kept no matter what the state of the final product? Please enlighten me!

 

DTG don’t have that autonomy because some TOCs believe it gives them negative PR. There’s a lot of things wrong with this route but I understand why they aren’t risking it, stuff like clutter and making stations look more alive is a bit of a 50/50. Which is why I understand, esp what happened w LNR pulling out

 

I absolutely agree to all your points you mentioned, and as I stated in my previous comment; you guys are precious to DTG. HOPEFULLY, this acquisition still allows DTG to make most of their decisions so that it doesn't end up becoming "just another simulation" over time. But my point here is that when you start complaining that the lighting in the train station is not of the correct hue, or that the trees or scenery is not as in real life, then we are talking about granularities which far exceed the value of experience for the larger audience. I personally have absolutely no clue how the scenery actually looks like for any if the routes, nor whether any locos or carrigies are missing anything. To me they all look perfect. And this is what I'm trying to pass along.

 

Yeah a lot of that stuff can be fixed with reshade and or engine.ini tweaks tbh, ironically unless youre on console. Ironic because it shouldnt matter so much to that demographic if you see what I mean..
Its more fundamental issues that people tend to have that make up the more vociferous complaints. I wont go into that here though, but the loudest hinge gets the oil

 

Well I think if an acquisition meant a dilution of profits then most companies would not welcome that. There's not much I guess can be said about specifics without having access (plus Im pretty thick when it comes to this kind of thing) but the following general article is quite a useful read..
M&A Deals: What Are the Advantages of Mergers and Acquisitions (idealsvdr.com)

IAG is a good example of how companies can remain autonomous under an umbrella organisation. Their success is fairly obvious and the resilience it provided was there to see during covid. What it can mean though is that any strategy needs to fit into the umbrella vision, and DTG very likely in my view cannot dramatically alter course without consequence. The core being free for a month is a trial, and I'd love to know, but almost certainly never will, how much dialogue there might have been and with whom in order to get that decision taken.

 

Hehehe.

Just take it from me, being a total rookie when it comes to trains, but slightly fascinated by trains. I personally think DTG are doing awesome work. Sure, I'm not sure I understood the need for releasing new editions like they did after TSW2 (Graphically, TSW2 out shone TSW2020, so that was alright), but they seem to have landed in an interesting spot with the TSW-concept and I guess they are trying to figure out their identity and what they want to do, still. How to go about.

Oh, and btw, I'm on PS5. When I play TSW I'm flat in the couch on my 65 QLED screen, with the PS5 controller in my hand. That's me operating trains!

 

It sounds perfect! DTG are doing awesome work, and we would do well to sometimes remind ourselves of that, in the midst of our more emotional moments! They are sometimes stuck I think between the proverbial rock and hard place. They need to sustain their model but also please the source of the revenue stream (or at least not annoy it too much)..

 

I think DTG will maintain autonomy for much of how they create content. With this acquisition they've secured financing and can focus on creating even better content. Hence growing their audio department, sending people over to the US to record sounds etc. I doubt this leads to TSW becoming just another simulation. They clearly have a very solid edge for this niche, and I doubt they'll just throw it out the window like that. You can't get just anyone to play train simulation, it's not like Fortnight.

 

I think you just smashed the nail on the head.. reputation and brand is so important in a niche market.

 

This is why you guys are so important. Where I pointed out you guys being those bands, or boundaries within which DTG will listen to you. This is a great balance of things. As long as you do set certain boundaries, while also allowing DTG to "screw up" slightly to please/improve their wallet, I think TSW concept has a bright future ahead. In the 5 years now I haven't been dissapointed.

 

I think this was really well said, echoes my exact feelings with the game and reading the forum. I do understand why a group of players who strive for the most realistic product are voicing concern over things, and I also understand DTG position of it being completely impossible to make everyone happy at every single moment.

Personally I feel bad that things such as the licensing issues have popped up twice this year both with very high profile releases in a timeframe that was almost the worst cases scenario for DTG. I also understand some of the complaints from the playing community (at least the forum community anyway). I do think issues like promised fixes being released a year later under a paywall is a touchy move that is hard to believe they don’t realize this will clearly be pointed out by a percentage of the community. Same goes for timetable. It would be hard for me to also believe that DTG does not already know that a lacking timetable for a major core release would not immediately be called out and quite loudly.

with that said, we should be appreciative for what we do have; basically nobody offers anything close for the console player. I know routes have some glitches, errors etc. almost none of them have ruined any gameplay and enjoyment for me. I love driving, seeing the traffic on the routes and keeping my imaginary passengers happy! I’ve driven just above 50,000 sim miles in tsw4 with over 25000 (as of today) on NYC/Trenton. Most of that being after the new timetable was released. Are there a couple hiccups and the occasional stuck train, yes. Do I throw my controller against the wall, ask for a refund, cry and moan I’ll never spend another dollar on the game I truly enjoy, simple answer is NO!

I do understand we want the most realistic game we can get, and the community does have the right to point out promised features not working, or being fixed in a timely manner. However, at the end of the day, I have yet to play a route that an issue took away from the enjoyment of my leather chair in the evening relaxing, clearing my mind and enjoying the TSW universe! I guess I’m thankful to have the opportunity to play something I have a passion for instead of shooting another terrorist with a rifle or trying to escape the military base without dying in a different funny way for the 900th time in GTA.

 

Anyways, back to the topic, what are the bets DTG will reply via forum, ignore or issue a carefully worded statement on this issue or issues?

 

Well I am not a train operator or a railfan. I just think the problem is that DTG don't do themselves any favors. They constantly overpromise on features and then underdeliver. Then there is the literal fact that this game has been advertised as a simulator featuring authentic routes and trains from around the world so it should hardly be suprising nor is it selfish for players to expect that. This game is not advertised as an arcade game. They set the expectations themselves.

Had this game not been advertised the way it is, then people's exceptions would be different.